CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[Who]

A last point: Dwyane Wade and Andrew Bogut play in the same conference, so they play each other 3 times a year.

In the past 2 years, Wade has shot better than 50% from the field in a game where Andrew Bogut was the opposing defensive anchor only once. He's shot under 40% from the field against a Bogut-led team in 4 out of a possible 6 games between 2009 and 2011.  

In how many of those games was Charlie Bell and/or Richard Luc Mbah a Moute defending Wade?

The Blazers have nobody who can replicate that defense on Wade on the perimeter.

Delfino and Harden are not quick enough to do so. Neither is Morrow, D.Williams or J.Jerebko.

[Roy H.]

Sigh. Et tu, Roy? Did I run over your cat or something last night? Does mgent have you on retainer?

Haha.  Just making you work for it, IP.   I've thought Philly had the best team ever since the West trade.  They have the best team defense (by far, in my mind) and the best playoff performer in the NBA in Wade.  Realistically, there's no way they should lose, especially to a team headed up by Amare Stoudemire. 

Want an interesting fact?  Dwyane Wade has almost as many career playoff minutes as your top six players combined (3,525 vs. 3,666).

[Roy H.]

Why are you voting for a team with a poor bigs rotation and 1 elite wing player against a team with elite starting bigs and a decent perimeter?

1. Varejao/West/Kmart is not a "poor bigs rotation";

2.  Wade is the only truly "elite" player in this series.  Bogut is a good defensive center, and Amare -- by your own admission -- is a "good but not great" player.  Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

[indeedproceed]

Why are you voting for a team with a poor bigs rotation and 1 elite wing player against a team with elite starting bigs and a decent perimeter?

1. Varejao/West/Kmart is not a "poor bigs rotation";

2.  Wade is the only truly "elite" player in this series.  Bogut is a good defensive center, and Amare -- by your own admission -- is a "good but not great" player.  Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

That 'Good but not great' player quote is complete garbage. I was basing that around the same assumption a lot of people were...in that without Steve Nash, he's just be a little better than ordinary.

Also, Varejao/West/Kmart compared to Amare/Bogut/Williams...is pretty poor.

I've got two of the top 5 players in the league at each frontcourt position. West and Varejao might not even break top-10 after the last season.

[Roy H.]

The numbers IP doesn't want you to see:

Hinrich vs. Lowry

Hinrich: 13.2 points, 4.0 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 45.5% shooting, 54.5% 3PT shooting

Lowry: 10.2 points, 4.4 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 42.0% shooting, 25.0% 3PT shooting

Also, if you want to look at recent performances, Hinrich has outscored Lowry in 4 out of the past 5 games they've played, and has outshot his in all 5 of those games. 

[dark_lord]

this series is really a no brainer for me. it isnt a surprise im not a believer in portland......combine that with my initial feelings that philly could win it all, and my mind is made up.

heading into this whole thing, i thought philly would beat indy to make it out of the east.  i had ,memphis,utah,sac all battling and wasnt sure who would win.  i have always felt philly was a favorite.

[KCattheStripe]

 Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

Which was aided by the fact that the second best player on his team was a 20/10 Shaq. No one in this series for the 76ers gives Wade that safety valve, nor does anyone in this series keep a Center or Power Forward from leaving them and helping when DWade attacks the basket.

[Roy H.]

 Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

Which was aided by the fact that the second best player on his team was a 20/10 Shaq. No one in this series for the 76ers gives Wade that safety valve, nor does anyone in this series keep a Center or Power Forward from leaving them and helping when DWade attacks the basket.

Shaq averaged 13 / 10 during those Finals; Antoine Walker was the Heat's second leading scorer, also averaging around 13 points per game.  We can talk about decoys or safety valves all we want, but Wade carried that team to a title.

Also, if the strategy is to double off of David West to help on Wade, then I don't even know what to say.  West is one of the best big man finishers in the NBA, both close and outside.

[Fafnir]

 Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

Which was aided by the fact that the second best player on his team was a 20/10 Shaq. No one in this series for the 76ers gives Wade that safety valve, nor does anyone in this series keep a Center or Power Forward from leaving them and helping when DWade attacks the basket.

Shaq averaged 13 / 10 during those Finals; Antoine Walker was the Heat's second leading scorer, also averaging around 13 points per game.  We can talk about decoys or safety valves all we want, but Wade carried that team to a title.

They were still doubling Shaq in the post in that Finals, his impact was greater than 13/10.

Plus lets not forget, Wade added at least 5 PPG to his average off of absolutely bogus calls Roy. He tied a game by making free throws where he wasn't touched. It happened over and over again, and he hasn't replicated that sort of ref advantage since.

[indeedproceed]

The numbers IP doesn't want you to see:

Hinrich vs. Lowry

Hinrich: 13.2 points, 4.0 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 45.5% shooting, 54.5% 3PT shooting

Lowry: 10.2 points, 4.4 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 42.0% shooting, 25.0% 3PT shooting

Also, if you want to look at recent performances, Hinrich has outscored Lowry in 4 out of the past 5 games they've played, and has outshot his in all 5 of those games.  

I love this term. "Things IP doesn't want you to see". Like I've had a secret team of spies hide the information or something.

I've maintained a few things consistently: That beer is best served cold, that Godfather II is the best film ever made, and that Kyle Lowry was a different player after the Brooks trade, and he was allowed to play big, starters minutes and run the show how he sees fit.

And, Lowry played Hinrich after Brooks was traded. He scored 17 points, dished 8 assists, and shot 42%.

And I expect that, except with a little bit of a better shooting %, in this series.

[KCattheStripe]

 Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

Which was aided by the fact that the second best player on his team was a 20/10 Shaq. No one in this series for the 76ers gives Wade that safety valve, nor does anyone in this series keep a Center or Power Forward from leaving them and helping when DWade attacks the basket.

Shaq averaged 13 / 10 during those Finals; Antoine Walker was the Heat's second leading scorer, also averaging around 13 points per game.  We can talk about decoys or safety valves all we want, but Wade carried that team to a title.

Shaq averaged 20 and 9 that season. He absolutely was still a major threat, and one that drew the bigs of Dallas away from Wade and allowed him to continue to put pressure on Dallas' guards.

[Donoghus]

Something that happened in 2006 isn't going to have much of a bearing with me.  Too far removed.  Now if it was the '08 CB Draft....

[KCattheStripe]

 Wade, on the other hand, had the best NBA Finals performance in NBA history.

Which was aided by the fact that the second best player on his team was a 20/10 Shaq. No one in this series for the 76ers gives Wade that safety valve, nor does anyone in this series keep a Center or Power Forward from leaving them and helping when DWade attacks the basket.

Shaq averaged 13 / 10 during those Finals; Antoine Walker was the Heat's second leading scorer, also averaging around 13 points per game.  We can talk about decoys or safety valves all we want, but Wade carried that team to a title.

They were still doubling Shaq in the post in that Finals, his impact was greater than 13/10.

Plus lets not forget, Wade added at least 5 PPG to his average off of absolutely bogus calls Roy. He tied a game by making free throws where he wasn't touched. It happened over and over again, and he hasn't replicated that sort of ref advantage since.

This last part I disagree with. I was a competitive fencer for a decade and fencing is a sport in which how points are awarded by what the referee saw happen and it's a well known strategy that if I do something well and correct a number of times in a row, I've got the referee in a rhythm and that if a call is a little more subjective, the ref will give me the benefit of the doubt.

That's what happened in that series, Wade kept attacking the basket and a number of times was legitimately fouled and got the refs in a rhythm that when he went to the basket quickly and it looked like he might have been fouled, he probably was.

That's not some giant conspiracy, that's predictable human nature and smart competing.

[Roy H.]

I've maintained a few things consistently: That beer is best served cold, that Godfather II is the best film ever made, and that Kyle Lowry was a different player after the Brooks trade, and he was allowed to play big, starters minutes and run the show how he sees fit.

The thing is, though, Lowry was the starter before the Brooks trade, too.  He started 49 of 53 games before the all-star break, and averaged 12/6/4 in 33+ minutes.  I'd understand your argument if Lowry wasn't a starter, but all of a sudden he was post-trade and saw a sharp increase in minutes.  That's not what happened at all, though.

My personal guess is that Lowry just got hot for a month.  He averaged around 13 ppg in December, January, and February.  In March, he suddenly shot up to around 19 ppg, before falling back down to 13 ppg in April.

Your theory is what, that Lowry performed better after Brooks was traded because he couldn't stand looking over his shoulder?  I mean, he was already a starter, and his minutes didn't go up much, so it must have been a mental thing, right?  If that's the case, that's a clear sign of a mentally weak player, isn't it?  And if that's the case, do you truly think he's going to excel in the high-pressure environment of the NBA Finals?

[Fafnir]

That's not some giant conspiracy, that's predictable human nature and smart competing.

I never said it was a conspiracy, I said the refs did a terrible job and awarded him an undue advantage. Wade didn't do anything wrong, instead the refs sucked and changed the series.

I wouldn't cite that series as something he can count upon in this match up.