So does anyone else wanna let me talk them out of thinking that I'm not number 1 in the West?
I do IP. Without Bogut, do you see yourself being any better than the pre-Carmelo NYK (a .500 team) and why? How many more wins do you see Bogut bringing to that team? What do you envision your record being in an 82 game season? I think Sacramento is a 60 win team. At this moment, I don't think you will get over 60 wins in the regular season to pass Sacramento. Convince me that your team will win more than 60 games to be #1 in the west. (And this is a regular season argument, not a comparison to Sacramento)
Ideally, with Bogut Healthy For 75-80 Games: This team is the best team in the draft. We've got the second best defending center in the league, who is able to guard any other opposing center in the league, as well as being the second best help-defending center in the NBA. His presence along with the rest of my roster gives me the ability to match-up with any team. I've got one of the best defending PG's in the NBA, one of the better defending SF's in the NBA, a better than replacement value and improving defender in James Harden, and Andrew Bogut. As long as I can keep Amar'e focused on guarding his man and not worrying about much else, I think defensively I'm right near the top. Off the bench I have capable defenders in Jerebko, Tolliver, and Lopez.
Defense aside, with Bogut I can go big in the halfcourt, with Lowry playing the roll of a 3pt shooting but not as talented passing Rajon Rondo, Amar'e as a more versatile KG, Delfino as a less talented Ray Allen, and James Harden reprising the role of Paul Pierce, running the 2-man game with Amar'e. Bogut's big body will trouble those who rely on tall lanky defenders, and occupy the few legitimate 'big' centers in the league as well in the paint. I've got scoring on the wings, great ball movement due to Lowry/Harden/Delfino/Bogut, and one of the best changeups in the league in Derrick Williams.
My roster versatility also allows that I'll be able to create mismatches on demand when the starting 5 starts to tire, or becomes stagnant as even the best starting 5 are like to do. Derrick Williams should be a handful for all but a few defenders in the NBA, Anthony Morrow is one of the best shooters in the league, and Ramon Sessions is one of the craftiest guards in basketball at getting to the cup and effectively using the P&R.
Why Bogut should be healthy..ish: I'm playing him only 32 minutes a game, cutting down on fatigue, I'm not asking him to carry the load on offense, and most importantly, he'll now be a year and a half removed from that gruesome elbow injury with hobbled him for most of last season. You mentioned his (relatively) low win-shares # from last season, but more telling was his offensive rating, which dipped substantially because of his lower FG%. That was the elbow. Typically his O-rating has been 107 and up, but last season it dropped almost 10 points. With a fully healed arm, that should pop back up again, along with his efficiency, his win-shares, and his overall game.
Why the Pre-Melo NYK comparison is way off-base:
This is assuming you mean a lineup of Lowry-Harden-Delfino-Williams-STAT, with my bench vs their bench.
1) Kyle Lowry is much, much better than Raymond Felton. He's a much better two-way player, and although Felton started off the year strong offensively in NY, he didn't finish it that way, and I think once you adjust to pace (i haven't checked), Lowry's 7 assists in his minutes match up well with Felton's. On top of that, he shot better, defended better, and rebounded better, all with a lower usage rate.
2) James Harden is much better than Landry Fields: Fields as a defender is at least as good as Harden, and in fact is probably better against the bigger 2's. Also, Fields was asked to guard 3's often which is not a confidence I have in Harden. Fields also throws what has been called 'the best inlet pass in basketball'. He shot the 3 better than Harden, and rebounded better. Honestly, I'd love to have him on my team, big fan. But Harden is the better all-around player. He's the better ball-handler, he's the better shot creator, he's the more versatile scorer, and he's the better facilitator. You can run your offense in a pick and roll setting from James Harden. You can't off of Landry Fields.
3) Carlos Delfino suits me just fine: Delfino isn't the athletic scorer Chandler is, but especially if you look at his preconcussion #'s from 09-10 (or even his post-concussion #'s), Delfino is at least as good from outside as Chandler, he's a better defender by every advanced metric available, he's a better facilitator, is a comparable rebounder. I'd rather have Chandler here I guess in terms of pure talent, but in terms of fit, I think Delfino plays the 3 in this set-up better.
Derrick Williams should be better than Gallinari: Derrick Williams hasn't played a NBA minute yet, but his skillset looks to be much more lethal and versatile than Gallo's. Gallo is weak, a good outside shooter, a terrible rebounder, and a passable scorer at the 4. Derrick Williams is strong, an average rebounder, looks like he'll be a comparable if not better outside shooter, and a much, much, much more efficient and versatile scorer. Also, his strength alone should make him a better defender than Gallo, since neither of them are freak athletes.
I'm not even going to waste your time with my bench mob except to say: Sessions, better. Morrow, better, Jerebko, better. Lopez, better suited to guarding big 5's, Tolliver, comparable to Rony Turiaf. My bench mob kills that Knicks teams' bench mob.
My projected wins if Bogut plays 75 or more games: 62-66.
Projected wins if Bogut plays between 60-75 games: mid to late 50's.
Oh. I read it.
But I'm not convinced. What does "much, much" mean? I think Lowry is better than Felton. No better offensively, equal defensively. "Better rebounder"? By half a rebound per game. Wow. "Shot better"? From 3, yes (only when Felton was in NYK). Overall fg? Same. Your argument here has done nothing to improve on my original idea that Lowry is a bit better than Felton, but not by any leaps nor bounds.
You say Harden is "much better" than Fields, yet you pointed out a bunch of areas that Fields is, in fact, better. My original opinion was that Harden is "slightly better" and you haven't convinced me otherwise.
I'd take Chandler over Delfino as you would also.
I'm not convinced that Williams will be better than Gallinari in year 1. Eventually, sure. But there's a lot for Williams to learn about the NBA game.
As for the bench... Sessions is better than who? Toney Douglas? Why, because I disagree. Jerebko better than who? Bill Walker? Debatable. Lopez better suited to guard bigs than Turiaf? Strongly disagree.
So, I haven't been convinced. With the even spread of talent in the CNBA, I think you win 40-44 games w/o Bogut (for extended time). I think you win 49-55 games with Bogut healthy (70+ games) which is what I'm going to presume in my voting. That's just my take.
Am I really going to have to explain why Kyle Lowry is hands down the better player? I could understand why Kane would argue he wasn't, but I don't get your game here..its pretty clear as day.
1) Lowry is an exponentially better defender against point guards. That's first and foremost. Lowry is if not the best, one of the best defenders against points in the league. Felton is not. He's more versatile, and I could see why, in the right fit, that would be important. But, in terms of strict pedigree, Lowry is head and shoulders above him here. And Felton isn't even that bad defensively, when compared to the rest of the league.
2) Lowry shot better from 3.
3) Lowry commits less turnovers, and has a lower turnover %.
4) Lowry's on/off the court statistics tower over Felton's while in NYK.
5) Lowry's assist/bad pass ratio is also substantially higher, although as playmakers there probably isn't very noticeable difference. Felton did it more, but did it with more turnovers (sheer #'s and as a % of possessions).
6) Lowry is better at getting to the line.
And all these comparisons are based on Lowry's entire year, not just one his time after Brooks was traded. When that gets factored in (and Lowry gets closer to Felton's 37 mpg), Lowry's FG%, 3pt%, PPP, Rebounding %, etc all just substantially higher.
Lowry finished the season playing as an elite point guard. Felton finished the season as a backup.
And I'm not saying Felton is a bad player. I'm saying Lowry is a lot better.
Fields/Harden is a bit harder, and really the comparisons should be Harden/W Chandler vs Fields/Delfino, since Harden/Chandler would be the independent scorers on the wing, and Fields/Delfino would be the stoppers/roleplayers/glue guys.
And I still think both are easy wins for me.
Gallo/Williams, the only defense that WIlliams is not better than Gallo is that Williams hasn't done it yet. A 'see to be believed' defense. WIlliams has shown the ability to be a better if not comparable 3pt shooter, a much better rebounder, a more capable defender, and a more versatile scorer. Other than "I haven't seen it yet so I refuse to believe it", I don't think there is a counterpoint.
Jerebko being better than Bill Walker is debateable? Why don't you debate to me how the guy who played SF/PF his rookie year, started, and managed to start for the majority of the year his rookie season, and was able to guard both 3's and 4's better than anyone else on his NBA team is debatabley worse than Bill Walker.
Lopez was a better defender than Turiaf in 09/10, and I maintain that he'll be a better option starting there going forward than Turiaf has been.
But, in terms of super-duper energy guy off the bench, Turiaf is better there probably, due to his versatility and familiarity with the role.
Sessions is better than Toney Douglas because he's actually a backup point guard. Fundementally the KNicks didn't have one. On top of that, Sessions has proved himself to be one of the best backup points in the league for the last 3 years. Check the stats.
Topic: 2011 CB Draft Northwest Division Press Conference (Read 69687 times)