Author Topic: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard  (Read 26034 times)

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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2011, 03:48:53 PM »

Offline mostofusrsad

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
i'd rather have gasol too...he is way less of a salary hit and has enough skills and size to counteract other team's centers...

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 03:52:34 PM »

Offline MBz

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Marc Gasol: 11.7 PPG, 7 RPG, 1.7 BPG
Dwight Howard: 22.9 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 2.4 BPG



I'm confused. I thought players play the games, not stats


Correct.


Stats are the numerical results of that play.

According to that, he is twice the player on the court.



By the eye test, he is the superior player while Gasol is a clog on a team with more talent. 

Lets see Howard play alongside Zack Randolph. Then we'll see how his points and rebound numbers look then. Thats why I'm not a stats-freak. Its always skewed by the circumstance


I am going to guess Randolph's rebounding numbers are going to take a good sized hit. 

Was just going to say the same thing.  Yes stats don't always show a good comparison in players, but when there is that large of a difference, you usually can stop the comparing right there.  If you swap Gasol and Howard right now, what happens? Memphis improves and Orlando goes backwards.  Howard is an all-star center, Gasol is a good starting center, but he's not an all-star.  

Yeah you have a point
But a better player does not always mean the best option
Gasol moves the ball around more, picks his spots to score within the team structure. Howard on the other hand is a ball dominator in the post, and not a good passer. Theres a reason why he had that 46 and 19 game against Atlanta and still lost the game

Stats look pretty when you wanna make the all-star team, but I much rather have a center who plays within a team. And Gasol is above-average in my opinion

He is above-average, he's good, I did say that.  The reason he went for 46 and 19 and lost was because his team is no good.  For what we need in the future, Dwight is a much better fit.  Gasol is a good fit when he's the 3rd or 4th option offensively.  With the big 3 declining we need a #1 option, Gasol can't give us that, Howard can.  Howard can be the guy to get us 20+ a game, Gasol isn't going to be able to do that.  
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 03:52:43 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Ya'all are crazy

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2011, 03:54:52 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
Howard absolutely _is_ an impact player. As in, he changes the game when he steps on the floor. He's obviously not perfect, and is not enough to win an NBA title by himself.

But I'd rather spend 20 million to have him, than 5 million per for 4 lesser and ultimately replaceable players.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2011, 03:56:08 PM »

Online Roy H.

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
i'd rather have gasol too...he is way less of a salary hit and has enough skills and size to counteract other team's centers...

To me, that's a lot like saying you'd rather have Corey Maggette than Lebron James, because he's cheaper and both are good scorers.


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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2011, 03:57:57 PM »

Offline Assassin70

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
i'd rather have gasol too...he is way less of a salary hit and has enough skills and size to counteract other team's centers...

To me, that's a lot like saying you'd rather have Corey Maggette than Lebron James, because he's cheaper and both are good scorers.

LOL great analogy TP!
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2011, 03:59:05 PM »

Offline MBz

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
i'd rather have gasol too...he is way less of a salary hit and has enough skills and size to counteract other team's centers...

To me, that's a lot like saying you'd rather have Corey Maggette than Lebron James, because he's cheaper and both are good scorers.

Exactly.  Also, looking at what we think we're going to have on our team, Dwight Howard will be more valuable to us than Gasol could be.  Two years ago, Gasol may have been a better option, someone who will be the garbage guy.  He'd rebound, bang inside and basically be your #4 option offensively.  After next season, with the big 3 in it's decline, we're going to need a go to go guy, that's Howard, not Gasol.
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2011, 04:00:13 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Marc Gasol: 11.7 PPG, 7 RPG, 1.7 BPG
Dwight Howard: 22.9 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 2.4 BPG



I'm confused. I thought players play the games, not stats


Correct.


Stats are the numerical results of that play.

According to that, he is twice the player on the court.



By the eye test, he is the superior player while Gasol is a clog on a team with more talent.  

Lets see Howard play alongside Zack Randolph. Then we'll see how his points and rebound numbers look then. Thats why I'm not a stats-freak. Its always skewed by the circumstance


I am going to guess Randolph's rebounding numbers are going to take a good sized hit.  

Was just going to say the same thing.  Yes stats don't always show a good comparison in players, but when there is that large of a difference, you usually can stop the comparing right there.  If you swap Gasol and Howard right now, what happens? Memphis improves and Orlando goes backwards.  Howard is an all-star center, Gasol is a good starting center, but he's not an all-star.  

Yeah you have a point
But a better player does not always mean the best option
Gasol moves the ball around more, picks his spots to score within the team structure. Howard on the other hand is a ball dominator in the post, and not a good passer. Theres a reason why he had that 46 and 19 game against Atlanta and still lost the game

Stats look pretty when you wanna make the all-star team, but I much rather have a center who plays within a team. And Gasol is above-average in my opinion

He is above-average, he's good, I did say that.  The reason he went for 46 and 19 and lost was because his team is no good.  For what we need in the future, Dwight is a much better fit.  Gasol is a good fit when he's the 3rd or 4th option offensively.  With the big 3 declining we need a #1 option, Gasol can't give us that, Howard can.  Howard can be the guy to get us 20+ a game, Gasol isn't going to be able to do that.  

Howard is not even a #1 option. He's never the guy the team closes the game with. In that '09 Finals run, Turkgolu, Rahard Lewis, and Raafer Alston all were ahead of him in as far as taking the last shot

You are not a centerpiece of you are like the 4th option as far as 4th quarter scoring. Plain and simple

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 04:01:11 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Exactly.  Also, looking at what we think we're going to have on our team, Dwight Howard will be more valuable to us than Gasol could be.  Two years ago, Gasol may have been a better option, someone who will be the garbage guy.  He'd rebound, bang inside and basically be your #4 option offensively.  After next season, with the big 3 in it's decline, we're going to need a go to go guy, that's Howard, not Gasol.
Yup. It's pretty simple: Gasol is a good piece, but Howard is a cornerstone. It's easier to find good pieces than to find cornerstones, and good pieces do you no good if you actually have no cornerstones.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2011, 04:01:59 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
Which is nice, but when you dunk the ball so much better like Howard does it doesn't matter all that much.

Then if you consider defense..........

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2011, 04:04:00 PM »

Offline MBz

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Marc Gasol: 11.7 PPG, 7 RPG, 1.7 BPG
Dwight Howard: 22.9 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 2.4 BPG



I'm confused. I thought players play the games, not stats


Correct.


Stats are the numerical results of that play.

According to that, he is twice the player on the court.



By the eye test, he is the superior player while Gasol is a clog on a team with more talent. 

Lets see Howard play alongside Zack Randolph. Then we'll see how his points and rebound numbers look then. Thats why I'm not a stats-freak. Its always skewed by the circumstance


I am going to guess Randolph's rebounding numbers are going to take a good sized hit. 

Was just going to say the same thing.  Yes stats don't always show a good comparison in players, but when there is that large of a difference, you usually can stop the comparing right there.  If you swap Gasol and Howard right now, what happens? Memphis improves and Orlando goes backwards.  Howard is an all-star center, Gasol is a good starting center, but he's not an all-star.  

Yeah you have a point
But a better player does not always mean the best option
Gasol moves the ball around more, picks his spots to score within the team structure. Howard on the other hand is a ball dominator in the post, and not a good passer. Theres a reason why he had that 46 and 19 game against Atlanta and still lost the game

Stats look pretty when you wanna make the all-star team, but I much rather have a center who plays within a team. And Gasol is above-average in my opinion

He is above-average, he's good, I did say that.  The reason he went for 46 and 19 and lost was because his team is no good.  For what we need in the future, Dwight is a much better fit.  Gasol is a good fit when he's the 3rd or 4th option offensively.  With the big 3 declining we need a #1 option, Gasol can't give us that, Howard can.  Howard can be the guy to get us 20+ a game, Gasol isn't going to be able to do that.  

Howard is not even a #1 option. He's never the guy the team closes the game with. In that '09 Finals run, Turkgolu, Rahard Lewis, and Raafer Alston all were ahead of him in as far as taking the last shot

Of course, centers rarely take last shots.  How many times did teams try to have Shaq take the last shot?  It's incredibly difficult to try to go to a post player on a last shot because of how easy it is to double team.  Dwight Howard led his team in Field Goals attempted this year, I'd say that's being the #1 option.
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2011, 04:04:32 PM »

Offline Yogi

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TP.  8-9 mil a year for Marc Gasol would be a much better deal than 20+ for Dwight.  

Only depending on who else is on the roster.  Rondo's game fits much better with Howard's game than it does with Gasol.

  Actually I couldn't disagree with this more.  Marc Gasol can stretch the floor which helps Rondo when he drives to the basket.  Marc Gasol is leaps and bounds better as a passer than Dwight Howard.  This is critical when starting a fast break with Rondo and Green running the floor.  Marc Gasol has great hands while Dwight's hands are pretty poor.  I am not even sure Dwight can catch half of Rondo's passes.  
   I believe Dwight should have been this years MVP.  I do believe that Dwight is the best center in the league right now
(I think if healthy 23 year old Andrew Bynum will soon dominate.)  For a guy that commands so much double team, Dwight's passing is simply atrocious.  Celtics play team basketball.  We need to have balance in all our positions in order to succeed.  Passing is a big part of that.  Also, Dwight would demand such a large salary that we would be thin in many spots and therefore be unable to play Celtic Basketball.  We would just be Orlando part 2.  Rondo and Dwight are great but simply not enough without the Big 3.  
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2011, 04:06:45 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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The guy who "isn't an impact player" led his team to the NBA Finals.  The other guy is going to lose in the second round.

The only thing Marc Gasol really does better than Howard is shoot jumpers and free throws.
i'd rather have gasol too...he is way less of a salary hit and has enough skills and size to counteract other team's centers...

To me, that's a lot like saying you'd rather have Corey Maggette than Lebron James, because he's cheaper and both are good scorers.

Yeah.  Marc Gasol is a nice player, but he's nothing compared to Dwight Howard.
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2011, 04:06:53 PM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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Actually I couldn't disagree with this more.  Marc Gasol can stretch the floor which helps Rondo when he drives to the basket.

I read that similar argument about Krstic too.
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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2011, 04:10:05 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Marc Gasol: 11.7 PPG, 7 RPG, 1.7 BPG
Dwight Howard: 22.9 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 2.4 BPG



I'm confused. I thought players play the games, not stats


Correct.


Stats are the numerical results of that play.

According to that, he is twice the player on the court.



By the eye test, he is the superior player while Gasol is a clog on a team with more talent. 

Lets see Howard play alongside Zack Randolph. Then we'll see how his points and rebound numbers look then. Thats why I'm not a stats-freak. Its always skewed by the circumstance


I am going to guess Randolph's rebounding numbers are going to take a good sized hit. 

Was just going to say the same thing.  Yes stats don't always show a good comparison in players, but when there is that large of a difference, you usually can stop the comparing right there.  If you swap Gasol and Howard right now, what happens? Memphis improves and Orlando goes backwards.  Howard is an all-star center, Gasol is a good starting center, but he's not an all-star.  

Yeah you have a point
But a better player does not always mean the best option
Gasol moves the ball around more, picks his spots to score within the team structure. Howard on the other hand is a ball dominator in the post, and not a good passer. Theres a reason why he had that 46 and 19 game against Atlanta and still lost the game

Stats look pretty when you wanna make the all-star team, but I much rather have a center who plays within a team. And Gasol is above-average in my opinion

He is above-average, he's good, I did say that.  The reason he went for 46 and 19 and lost was because his team is no good.  For what we need in the future, Dwight is a much better fit.  Gasol is a good fit when he's the 3rd or 4th option offensively.  With the big 3 declining we need a #1 option, Gasol can't give us that, Howard can.  Howard can be the guy to get us 20+ a game, Gasol isn't going to be able to do that.  

Howard is not even a #1 option. He's never the guy the team closes the game with. In that '09 Finals run, Turkgolu, Rahard Lewis, and Raafer Alston all were ahead of him in as far as taking the last shot

Of course, centers rarely take last shots.  How many times did teams try to have Shaq take the last shot?  It's incredibly difficult to try to go to a post player on a last shot because of how easy it is to double team.  Dwight Howard led his team in Field Goals attempted this year, I'd say that's being the #1 option.

Shaq almost always took the last shot, or was an impact in the final play, don't make that excuse

Don't try to mask Howard's weaknesses. If we were talking about Hakeem Olajuwon, I wouldn't even bring Marc Gasol in the discussion. He can't control the game offensively, if he tries it becomes a 1 on 1 match with the guy he's guarding and his teammates just stand and watch

And for all that athletic prowess that he has, he is 27. In a few years all of that would fade and those fundamental skills that he is lacking would all come into question. You can't win with just athleticism and dunking, just ask Darryl Dawkins