Author Topic: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard  (Read 26034 times)

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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2011, 06:55:52 PM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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But Dwight Howard isn't Hakeem Olajuwon
unlike Dwight, he had a consistent reliable post game and produced in the clutch. Something I can't say for Dwight
Do teams even go to him in the final minutes?

Is Marc Gasol clutch? Is he the go to scorer in the final minutes?

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Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2011, 07:00:29 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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But Dwight Howard isn't Hakeem Olajuwon
unlike Dwight, he had a consistent reliable post game and produced in the clutch. Something I can't say for Dwight
Do teams even go to him in the final minutes?

Is Marc Gasol clutch? Is he the go to scorer in the final minutes?



He had more impact offensively in the final minutes than Dwight has. In that Spurs series he scored alot of important buckets int the final minutes, and kept Duncan in check on the other end

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2011, 07:08:38 PM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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But Dwight Howard isn't Hakeem Olajuwon
unlike Dwight, he had a consistent reliable post game and produced in the clutch. Something I can't say for Dwight
Do teams even go to him in the final minutes?

Is Marc Gasol clutch? Is he the go to scorer in the final minutes?



He had more impact offensively in the final minutes than Dwight has. In that Spurs series he scored alot of important buckets int the final minutes, and kept Duncan in check on the other end

We have a new definition of clutch.
"An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching." - M.K. Gandhi


Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2011, 07:10:17 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2011, 07:11:07 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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But Dwight Howard isn't Hakeem Olajuwon
unlike Dwight, he had a consistent reliable post game and produced in the clutch. Something I can't say for Dwight
Do teams even go to him in the final minutes?

Is Marc Gasol clutch? Is he the go to scorer in the final minutes?



He had more impact offensively in the final minutes than Dwight has. In that Spurs series he scored alot of important buckets int the final minutes, and kept Duncan in check on the other end

We have a new definition of clutch.

Well he's done more than Dwight. Thats my point
Name an important game where Dwight came through in the final minutes/last shot of the game...

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2011, 07:11:50 PM »

Offline Mr October

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But Dwight Howard isn't Hakeem Olajuwon
unlike Dwight, he had a consistent reliable post game and produced in the clutch. Something I can't say for Dwight
Do teams even go to him in the final minutes?

Is Marc Gasol clutch? Is he the go to scorer in the final minutes?



He had more impact offensively in the final minutes than Dwight has. In that Spurs series he scored alot of important buckets int the final minutes, and kept Duncan in check on the other end

Duncan is damaged goods now. At the time that the playoffs started, the San Antonio Spurs were possibly the worst number 1 seed in NBA history.

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2011, 07:14:39 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2011, 07:27:15 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

That 09 Magic team outside of Howard would be lucky to win 40 games. Howard's presence in the paint on offense was enough to cause every team without Perkins or Bynum to panic and double team him. Once that panic was in place, the Turk and Lewis combo was allowed to do damage from the outside. Does Gasol inspire panic double teams?

How many clutch baskets did Bill Russell have? (mind you Howard is not Russell, but like Russell, he is the best defender at the 5)

And yeah the Lebron argument stands as well. His teammates were not championship caliber in Cleveland. Look at what CLE did this year.

The way Lebron closed out the Celtics in the Miami series was extremely impressive. He is the best player in the NBA. No question. What he does on the defensive side of the floor alone is mind boggling. He has so much speed, size, strength and smarts.

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #83 on: May 13, 2011, 07:41:04 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

That 09 Magic team outside of Howard would be lucky to win 40 games. Howard's presence in the paint on offense was enough to cause every team without Perkins or Bynum to panic and double team him. Once that panic was in place, the Turk and Lewis combo was allowed to do damage from the outside. Does Gasol inspire panic double teams?

How many clutch baskets did Bill Russell have? (mind you Howard is not Russell, but like Russell, he is the best defender at the 5)

And yeah the Lebron argument stands as well. His teammates were not championship caliber in Cleveland. Look at what CLE did this year.

The way Lebron closed out the Celtics in the Miami series was extremely impressive. He is the best player in the NBA. No question. What he does on the defensive side of the floor alone is mind boggling. He has so much speed, size, strength and smarts.

Dwight Howard doesn't have any smarts. Jumping out the gym doesn't equal smarts. If you cause turnovers by not playing the PG position, you don't have smarts


And Bill Russell was good in the clutch. Don't let the 15 ppg fool you, he scored in the final minute. But mostly, he contributed to closing out a game in the final minutes of a game whether off, deff, passing, etc.

So what games has Dwight Howard closed? None

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2011, 07:54:29 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

That 09 Magic team outside of Howard would be lucky to win 40 games. Howard's presence in the paint on offense was enough to cause every team without Perkins or Bynum to panic and double team him. Once that panic was in place, the Turk and Lewis combo was allowed to do damage from the outside. Does Gasol inspire panic double teams?

How many clutch baskets did Bill Russell have? (mind you Howard is not Russell, but like Russell, he is the best defender at the 5)

And yeah the Lebron argument stands as well. His teammates were not championship caliber in Cleveland. Look at what CLE did this year.

The way Lebron closed out the Celtics in the Miami series was extremely impressive. He is the best player in the NBA. No question. What he does on the defensive side of the floor alone is mind boggling. He has so much speed, size, strength and smarts.

Dwight Howard doesn't have any smarts. Jumping out the gym doesn't equal smarts. If you cause turnovers by not playing the PG position, you don't have smarts


And Bill Russell was good in the clutch. Don't let the 15 ppg fool you, he scored in the final minute. But mostly, he contributed to closing out a game in the final minutes of a game whether off, deff, passing, etc.

So what games has Dwight Howard closed? None

I agree that Howard doesn't have the smarts of James or Russell. And I understand your concern there. The center position is at its worst at the top in a long time. I miss the days of Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning and before that Jabbar, Malone, Olajuwon, Parish... but in today's NBA, Howard is the best defensive presence in the middle, and that athletic body is probably good for another 5 years of elite basketball, no?

Anyway, clearly Gasol is your guy no matter what anyone says.

I bet that a team with Howard as its top 1 or 2 player on it will win a title before Gasol does as a top 1 or 2 player on his team.

We'll see what happens. It all may be a moot point if Miami stays healthy and (with the superstar blessing of the officials) wins titles in 5 out of the next 6 years.  :P

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2011, 08:06:17 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

That 09 Magic team outside of Howard would be lucky to win 40 games. Howard's presence in the paint on offense was enough to cause every team without Perkins or Bynum to panic and double team him. Once that panic was in place, the Turk and Lewis combo was allowed to do damage from the outside. Does Gasol inspire panic double teams?

How many clutch baskets did Bill Russell have? (mind you Howard is not Russell, but like Russell, he is the best defender at the 5)

And yeah the Lebron argument stands as well. His teammates were not championship caliber in Cleveland. Look at what CLE did this year.

The way Lebron closed out the Celtics in the Miami series was extremely impressive. He is the best player in the NBA. No question. What he does on the defensive side of the floor alone is mind boggling. He has so much speed, size, strength and smarts.

Dwight Howard doesn't have any smarts. Jumping out the gym doesn't equal smarts. If you cause turnovers by not playing the PG position, you don't have smarts


And Bill Russell was good in the clutch. Don't let the 15 ppg fool you, he scored in the final minute. But mostly, he contributed to closing out a game in the final minutes of a game whether off, deff, passing, etc.

So what games has Dwight Howard closed? None

I agree that Howard doesn't have the smarts of James or Russell. And I understand your concern there. The center position is at its worst at the top in a long time. I miss the days of Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning and before that Jabbar, Malone, Olajuwon, Parish... but in today's NBA, Howard is the best defensive presence in the middle, and that athletic body is probably good for another 5 years of elite basketball, no?

Anyway, clearly Gasol is your guy no matter what anyone says.

I bet that a team with Howard as its top 1 or 2 player on it will win a title before Gasol does as a top 1 or 2 player on his team.

We'll see what happens. It all may be a moot point if Miami stays healthy and (with the superstar blessing of the officials) wins titles in 5 out of the next 6 years.  :P

Ahh I hope they don't win anything lol
Yeah, I agree Dwight Howard is that guy that anyone would want on their team and is a top 2 center in the league

I also remember the old NBA with all of those Hall-of-Fame centers. If Jabbar or Olajuwon were in their prime and could go to the Celtics, I wouldn't even make this thread lol

It's just I see so many athletic marvels that fall of the face of the earth once that jumping ability goes away

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #86 on: May 13, 2011, 08:11:21 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Ahh I hope they don't win anything lol
Yeah, I agree Dwight Howard is that guy that anyone would want on their team and is a top 2 center in the league

I also remember the old NBA with all of those Hall-of-Fame centers. If Jabbar or Olajuwon were in their prime and could go to the Celtics, I wouldn't even make this thread lol

It's just I see so many athletic marvels that fall of the face of the earth once that jumping ability goes away

TP for a spirited discussion. And as a final note on athleticism vs fundamental skill, I worry greatly about Rondo's future if something were to happen to slow him down. He looked pretty bad for the last couple months of the season.  :-\

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2011, 08:15:20 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

  I'd like to point out that, while chastising someone for downplaying Howard's teammates, you listed Rafer Alston as a "top scoring option to close out the game".

  Think about that for a moment.

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #88 on: May 13, 2011, 08:22:05 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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I can't believe this thread still has life.

If you can get the best center in the NBA, in his prime, you do it over any other center. I don't care if he costs 7 or 8 million extra.


Howard plus mediocrity = 52 wins.

M Gasol plus a better cast = 46 wins.

Howard with Rashard Lewis as a top teammate was capable of getting to the NBA Finals. Howard was the best player on his teams.

Gasol with Randolph has made it to the second round. Gasol was typically the 3rd best player on his team (after Randolph and Gay).

You only get to play 5 guys at a time in basketball. there is a huge advantage when you have a top 1-2 guy at his position.

Superstars win titles.

The lone exception - build a scrappy defensive team with star talent at all 5 positions during a transition era in the NBA. The Pistons did this twice. The Thomas era between Bird/Magic and Jordan/Olajuwon, and then the Wallace era between Shaq/Duncan and KG/Bryant. Even then the Wallace Pistons got lucky because the Lakers lost Malone to an injury and were fighting with themselves.

I hate that argument where people try to downplay the teammates of a player to overhype a certain player

"Lebron had no one when he went to the Finals"  ::)

The Magic in '09 had Turkolgu, Rashard Lewis, and Rafer Alston
All were top scoring options to close out the game, over Howard.

It was the combo of Turkolgu and Lewis that created mismatches with every team the played except the Lakers

  I'd like to point out that, while chastising someone for downplaying Howard's teammates, you listed Rafer Alston as a "top scoring option to close out the game".

  Think about that for a moment.


He outplayed Rondo in that '09 Celtics-Magic series
And he was maybe the only point guard in Howard's career to pass him the ball and put him in the right position to score
He's not a bad player

Re: I rather have Marc Gasol then Dwight Howard
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2011, 08:24:41 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Ahh I hope they don't win anything lol
Yeah, I agree Dwight Howard is that guy that anyone would want on their team and is a top 2 center in the league

I also remember the old NBA with all of those Hall-of-Fame centers. If Jabbar or Olajuwon were in their prime and could go to the Celtics, I wouldn't even make this thread lol

It's just I see so many athletic marvels that fall of the face of the earth once that jumping ability goes away

TP for a spirited discussion. And as a final note on athleticism vs fundamental skill, I worry greatly about Rondo's future if something were to happen to slow him down. He looked pretty bad for the last couple months of the season.  :-\


TP too
I worry about that too. Athleticism is a big part of Rondo's game. Just hope he improves in the skill aspect