Why did Danny trade for Jeff Green?

[Shamrocker]

Because this is the NBA.  You don't need an incredible interior defender - just an average backup Small Forward

He is a better-than-average starting SF. Name me a better backup.

I know what the numbers say. But I also know from my own eyes that Jeff Green is not the kind of player I want to see on the Celtics (neither is Krstic, for that matter). They are finesse guys who really do not have an ounce of toughness in them. Green really can't seem to get anything going on his own. It's like the team has to work too hard to make him an important part of the offense. Sorry, but Danny traded Perk for a backup small forward and a backup center who will never be key components of any championship team. And, do they spend $7-8 million a year or more to keep Green around? I hope not.

How is he a finesse player when he loves the post? If anything, this team isn't finding him on the block enough. See how badly he abused Mike Miller yesterday? He can do that to about 90% of the SF's in this league, starters or reserves.

Then why hasn’t he?  Let me guess, Rivers is using him wrong. 

[wdleehi]

Here is the part the catches me.



Let's just say Perk is Shaq's backup.


Does it make sense to trade the backup to the more injury prone player who likely will not go past 20 minutes a game in the playoffs for a backup to someone that will play close to 38 minutes a game in the playoffs?




Green is a better player then he has shown, but as a starter.  He has not shown the ability to be as effected as Pierce's backup.  He is playing at the level of someone with less skill.  To be honest, that level would be fine for this team in the playoffs. 

[GreenEnvy]

Because this is the NBA.  You don't need an incredible interior defender - just an average backup Small Forward

He is a better-than-average starting SF. Name me a better backup.

I know what the numbers say. But I also know from my own eyes that Jeff Green is not the kind of player I want to see on the Celtics (neither is Krstic, for that matter). They are finesse guys who really do not have an ounce of toughness in them. Green really can't seem to get anything going on his own. It's like the team has to work too hard to make him an important part of the offense. Sorry, but Danny traded Perk for a backup small forward and a backup center who will never be key components of any championship team. And, do they spend $7-8 million a year or more to keep Green around? I hope not.

How is he a finesse player when he loves the post? If anything, this team isn't finding him on the block enough. See how badly he abused Mike Miller yesterday? He can do that to about 90% of the SF's in this league, starters or reserves.

Then why hasn’t he?  Let me guess, Rivers is using him wrong. 

He may be part of the problem right now, and I believe he admitted to not knowing how to use him a few weeks ago.

But I'd put the blame on Rondo and whoever else is out there with him. BBD is out there with him a lot and takes way too many poor shots. The offense should run through Green whenever Pierce isn't in. He's obviously a (too?) willing passer, so let him expose his mismatch or find an open/cutting teammate.

[Shamrocker]

double post...

[Shamrocker]

Because this is the NBA.  You don't need an incredible interior defender - just an average backup Small Forward

He is a better-than-average starting SF. Name me a better backup.

I know what the numbers say. But I also know from my own eyes that Jeff Green is not the kind of player I want to see on the Celtics (neither is Krstic, for that matter). They are finesse guys who really do not have an ounce of toughness in them. Green really can't seem to get anything going on his own. It's like the team has to work too hard to make him an important part of the offense. Sorry, but Danny traded Perk for a backup small forward and a backup center who will never be key components of any championship team. And, do they spend $7-8 million a year or more to keep Green around? I hope not.

How is he a finesse player when he loves the post? If anything, this team isn't finding him on the block enough. See how badly he abused Mike Miller yesterday? He can do that to about 90% of the SF's in this league, starters or reserves.

Then why hasn’t he?  Let me guess, Rivers is using him wrong. 

He may be part of the problem right now, and I believe he admitted to not knowing how to use him a few weeks ago.

But I'd put the blame on Rondo and whoever else is out there with him. BBD is out there with him a lot and takes way too many poor shots. The offense should run through Green whenever Pierce isn't in. He's obviously a (too?) willing passer, so let him expose his mismatch or find an open/cutting teammate.

So, let’s clarify: Its Doc’s fault, and its the assistant coaches’ fault, its Rondo fault, and in OKC it was Scott Brooks fault, anyone else?   

Jeff Green deserves no blame for his lackluster performance? 

[Bouncing Buckeye]

'But I also know from my own eyes that Jeff Green is not the kind of player I want to see on the Celtics (neither is Krstic, for that matter). They are finesse guys who really do not have an ounce of toughness in them.'

I basically agree with you but I think you're overstating the case with Green (Kristic isn't really worth worrying about).  He's not exactly soft.  I give him a C+/B- on the toughness scale, with the potential to reach a B, maybe B+.  The trouble is we traded away a guy who was an A+ on that scale.  If Green was an A or A- on offense, the whole swap might have made sense (at least in the abstract).  But clearly he's not and it didn't.

What we really needed to do for this one final run was hold on to Tony Allen.  He was finally finding his role last year and added to the aggressiveness which made the team what it was.  With Allen we wouldn't have had to trade for Green.  Why his relatively modest demands, dollar and year-wise, were considered an obstacle to rebuilding I'll never understand.

[vinnie]

'But I also know from my own eyes that Jeff Green is not the kind of player I want to see on the Celtics (neither is Krstic, for that matter). They are finesse guys who really do not have an ounce of toughness in them.'

I basically agree with you but I think you're overstating the case with Green (Kristic isn't really worth worrying about).  He's not exactly soft.  I give him a C+/B- on the toughness scale, with the potential to reach a B, maybe B+.  The trouble is we traded away a guy who was an A+ on that scale.  If Green was an A or A- on offense, the whole swap might have made sense (at least in the abstract).  But clearly he's not and it didn't.

What we really needed to do for this one final run was hold on to Tony Allen.  He was finally finding his role last year and added to the aggressiveness which made the team what it was.  With Allen we wouldn't have had to trade for Green.  Why his relatively modest demands, dollar and year-wise, were considered an obstacle to rebuilding I'll never understand.

TP to you for your screen name. Love it! Jarrin John!

[Bouncing Buckeye]

If only we could speak of Jarrin Jeff.

[vinnie]

If only we could speak of Jarrin Jeff.

I can just hear johnny "Jarrin John, the bouncing Buckeye from Ohio State."

[jambr380]

I don't understand why people think Jeff Green is playing badly.

He is doing a nice job offensively scoring 9ppg in just 22mpg while shooting 50% from the field and posting a TS% of 57%. He has an excellent post game which gives the Celtics a matchup advantage against most second unit small forwards.

Defensively, he has been really solid at the three and the team as whole has played quality defense when he has been there. He continues to struggle defensively as a four but that is no surprise and even with that he still has value there against certain matchups.

The only thing that has been missing is the rebounding but that is slowly improving.

I don't understand understand why people think he is playing badly. Jeff Green is doing his job.

Yeah, I am not quite sure what people expected for a guy who is playing 22 mpg. He is a glue guy, someone you can count on not stinking it up and I think he has been fairly consistent. To say that Danny traded away a championship is ridiculous. The Celtics were horrible last year and made it to the finals. The Lakers are horrible right now, but does anyone really think they won't turn it around?

The doom and gloom of the blog is making me sick. People think that Perk was the messiah and now our tried and true veterans are emotionally broken? Give me a freakin' break. They are either going to turn it around or they won't and I don't think it would have been much different with Perk here. We now have a decent draft pick, a very tradeable asset in Green if we choose not to match what he may get from another team, and a formidable back up center.

And, for the record, it has been the starters who have fallen apart - just like last year. Now let's see if they can find that switch again.

[vinnie]

I don't understand why people think Jeff Green is playing badly.

He is doing a nice job offensively scoring 9ppg in just 22mpg while shooting 50% from the field and posting a TS% of 57%. He has an excellent post game which gives the Celtics a matchup advantage against most second unit small forwards.

Defensively, he has been really solid at the three and the team as whole has played quality defense when he has been there. He continues to struggle defensively as a four but that is no surprise and even with that he still has value there against certain matchups.

The only thing that has been missing is the rebounding but that is slowly improving.

I don't understand understand why people think he is playing badly. Jeff Green is doing his job.

Yeah, I am not quite sure what people expected for a guy who is playing 22 mpg. He is a glue guy, someone you can count on not stinking it up and I think he has been fairly consistent. To say that Danny traded away a championship is ridiculous. The Celtics were horrible last year and made it to the finals. The Lakers are horrible right now, but does anyone really think they won't turn it around?

The doom and gloom of the blog is making me sick. People think that Perk was the messiah and now our tried and true veterans are emotionally broken? Give me a freakin' break. They are either going to turn it around or they won't and I don't think it would have been much different with Perk here. We now have a decent draft pick, a very tradeable asset in Green if we choose not to match what he may get from another team, and a formidable back up center.

And, for the record, it has been the starters who have fallen apart - just like last year. Now let's see if they can find that switch again.

Please quote the posts where people think Perk is "the Messiah." Also, explain how Green is a "glue guy." And yes, he has been consistent. In 9 out of the last 10 games he has scored in single digits, and except for one game, he brings 2-3 rbounds per game and little intensity. My son has taken to calling him "Old Man Green" based on the way he plays.

[jambr380]

I don't understand why people think Jeff Green is playing badly.

He is doing a nice job offensively scoring 9ppg in just 22mpg while shooting 50% from the field and posting a TS% of 57%. He has an excellent post game which gives the Celtics a matchup advantage against most second unit small forwards.

Defensively, he has been really solid at the three and the team as whole has played quality defense when he has been there. He continues to struggle defensively as a four but that is no surprise and even with that he still has value there against certain matchups.

The only thing that has been missing is the rebounding but that is slowly improving.

I don't understand understand why people think he is playing badly. Jeff Green is doing his job.

Yeah, I am not quite sure what people expected for a guy who is playing 22 mpg. He is a glue guy, someone you can count on not stinking it up and I think he has been fairly consistent. To say that Danny traded away a championship is ridiculous. The Celtics were horrible last year and made it to the finals. The Lakers are horrible right now, but does anyone really think they won't turn it around?

The doom and gloom of the blog is making me sick. People think that Perk was the messiah and now our tried and true veterans are emotionally broken? Give me a freakin' break. They are either going to turn it around or they won't and I don't think it would have been much different with Perk here. We now have a decent draft pick, a very tradeable asset in Green if we choose not to match what he may get from another team, and a formidable back up center.

And, for the record, it has been the starters who have fallen apart - just like last year. Now let's see if they can find that switch again.

Please quote the posts where people think Perk is "the Messiah." Also, explain how Green is a "glue guy." And yes, he has been consistent. In 9 out of the last 10 games he has scored in single digits, and except for one game, he brings 2-3 rbounds per game and little intensity. My son has taken to calling him "Old Man Green" based on the way he plays.

There are countless threads like this one where posters continually blame Ainge for ruining this team. I equate 'messiah' with guaranteed championship if the trade didn't happen. Why would things be any different? They did the same thing last year. Had you ever watched Green before he came to the Celtics? He is exactly the kind of player that makes a championship team run smoothly. Just because thing haven't clicked yet, doesn't mean it's over. I think there just needs to be a better attitude about things.

[fairweatherfan]

I don't understand why people think Jeff Green is playing badly.

He is doing a nice job offensively scoring 9ppg in just 22mpg while shooting 50% from the field and posting a TS% of 57%. He has an excellent post game which gives the Celtics a matchup advantage against most second unit small forwards.

Defensively, he has been really solid at the three and the team as whole has played quality defense when he has been there. He continues to struggle defensively as a four but that is no surprise and even with that he still has value there against certain matchups.

The only thing that has been missing is the rebounding but that is slowly improving.

I don't understand understand why people think he is playing badly. Jeff Green is doing his job.

Yeah, I am not quite sure what people expected for a guy who is playing 22 mpg. He is a glue guy, someone you can count on not stinking it up and I think he has been fairly consistent. To say that Danny traded away a championship is ridiculous. The Celtics were horrible last year and made it to the finals. The Lakers are horrible right now, but does anyone really think they won't turn it around?

The doom and gloom of the blog is making me sick. People think that Perk was the messiah and now our tried and true veterans are emotionally broken? Give me a freakin' break. They are either going to turn it around or they won't and I don't think it would have been much different with Perk here. We now have a decent draft pick, a very tradeable asset in Green if we choose not to match what he may get from another team, and a formidable back up center.

And, for the record, it has been the starters who have fallen apart - just like last year. Now let's see if they can find that switch again.

Please quote the posts where people think Perk is "the Messiah." Also, explain how Green is a "glue guy." And yes, he has been consistent. In 9 out of the last 10 games he has scored in single digits, and except for one game, he brings 2-3 rbounds per game and little intensity. My son has taken to calling him "Old Man Green" based on the way he plays.

A real chip off the old bleak, eh?   

I'm cautiously optimistic about Green; we don't need him to put up big numbers to be effective, but I would like to see him more involved in the flow of the offense - right now he's either finishing the play with a shot or being completely ignored.  I've got no problem with the shot attempts but I'd like to see him reversing the ball or drawing doubles in the post and dishing to a cutter.  I have no idea if this is Green's fault or Doc's design, though. 

Green's defense has been solid though - he's the best shotblocker we have at this point other than JO and maybe KG.  And he's been the most efficient scorer on the team, albeit in a very limited sample.  But the rebounding and integration into the offense need to improve if we're hoping to come out of the East, much less hang a banner.

Ultimately the entire discussion is something of a red herring though - Green's role in the trade and his quiet body language make him an easy target, but our problems are much larger and more systemic than anything he is or isn't bringing to the table right now.

[Jon]

Still early.  People thought Nate was a complete bum last year and he managed to win us some playoff games.  And Jeff Green has a lot more upside than Nate. 

I think this is very tough. You're talking about a guy who was shooting 15-20 shots a game and playing 35+ mpg asked to come off the bench, take less than half that many shots, and to "assert" himself when he's sometimes on the floor with 4 other All Stars (3 of whom are first ballot Hall of Famers). 

Still, as I said, it's early.  You never know what he might do come playoff time. 

[mc34]

One big problem is how Green is constantly out there with Baby, who doesn't complement him well. I'd like to see a lineup of Rondo/Delonte, Delonte/Ray, Green, KG, and JO/Shaq. Rondo and Delonte seem to play well with Green, Ray spaces the floor and takes some shots, KG and Shaq/JO hold down the defense and get up some shots, and Green is able to play his natural position and doesn't have to defer all the time. Has Doc even tried a lineup like that yet? I always see Green out there with Baby, Pierce, or all the Big 4. Doesn't make sense to me.