Who else thinks we made out like bandits in the Perkins trade? I know I do.

[Interceptor]

We cant let this continue, if Rondo refuses to set up the offense and create, he needs to be benched in favor of a point guard who can actually make the open jumper.

Like Rondo, perhaps?  Do you think that the first half of this season was an enigma?  Rondo is in a shooting slump right now, but he is not a bad shooter.  I certainly don't want him tossing something up sideways with a hand in his face, but I'm fine with open shots, and I'll bet that Doc is too.

[Fafnir]

BTW Megatron you do realize that 15 shot attempts per game would mean that Jeff Green/Krstic would be taking more shots than any of the big three have taken during their Celtics career together right?

You want two players who average less than 30 minutes per game to get that in the C's offense? Not going to happen, and if it did it would hurt the C's.

If you're talking about combined shot attempts, they already do at 17 per game.

I'm still curious to your thoughts on the is Megatron.

Because given the minutes that Green/Krstic play I think they're involved in the offense pretty heavily.

Im just calling it how I see it, Rondo is completely ignoring Krstic when hes in position, and taking a jump shot instead, that is a bad possesion in my eyes.

So you want him to take more shots than 2007-2008 Paul Pierce/KG did when we ran our offense through those two players primarily?

[BballTim]

Jerry Stackhouse: "Coach said that gameplan for the Celtics was to embarass Rondo into shooting, thats how we are going to win the game"

Turns our the scouting report is dead on, when Rondo shoots, other teams win.

We need a change.

  Just curious, when did Stackhouse say that?

He said it during a Celtics halftime game on NBATV. He said it blunty to the point where his castmates didnt believe him, but he said that was the exact phrase the coach used.

  Ok, which coach told him that, and when did he?

Erik Spoelstra...before our third game against them. I wonder how that strategy worked out for them...Rondo put up a triple double.

  Haha. I guess the scouting report is dead on...

[Chris]

Jerry Stackhouse: "Coach said that gameplan for the Celtics was to embarass Rondo into shooting, thats how we are going to win the game"

Turns our the scouting report is dead on, when Rondo shoots, other teams win.

We need a change.

Yea, but what that Miami discard forgot to mention was that Rondo shot 50% in that game (5-10) had 11 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists in a Celtics victory.

That game was a rarity. If you were the other team, would you rather have Paul and Ray shooting jumpers, or Rondo?

Of course you would rather have Rondo shooting.  Which is why defenses dare him to shoot.  That is also why against good teams, he needs to be going harder than anyone else, and doing things like cutting back door, crashing the boards, and pushing the ball off long rebounds and turnovers to run the offense before the defense can get set.

If he is not playing at that breakneck speed though, you are right, he is relatively inneffective (although i still think he is better than an average PG like West or Arroyo...in most instances...the last few games have been especially bad).  And we see that way too much in regular season games for a lot of our taste.

That does not change the fact that when he flips the switch for the playoffs, or a prime time game, he is not incredibly effective, and fits in perfectly to what this team needs.

I probably have more concerns than most about his future ceiling, and how good he will be once the hall of famers have faded, and the wins stop rolling in...but that is irrevalent right now.  Right now, he knows when he needs to step it up, and when he does step it up, he is (within the needs of the team) one of the top PGs in the league, and arguably one of the top overall players.

I wish it was every game, and I wish I could see it continuing no matter what the supporting cast is.  But for right now, having a guy we know can be downright dominant in the biggest games, and who finds ways to be (more than) effective, despite a flawed skillset is all we can ask for.

He is a huge reason this team is a championship contender (and possibly a favorite), and we just have to accept the flaws, knowing that when the time comes, he will hold his own, and maybe go above and beyond what we need from him.

[kozlodoev]

Rondo is not that bad of a shooter.  Lately he's been off, admittedly, but I think that in general people are conflating his free throws (which are horrible) with his shooting.  I am fine with Rondo taking wide-open shots.

The problem with Rondo's "offness" is not limited to his shot. He commits bad turnovers, occasionally looks lost on defense, and is generally a liability to the team right now.

Whatever is going on with him, he needs to snap out of it.

[Chris]

Rondo is not that bad of a shooter.  Lately he's been off, admittedly, but I think that in general people are conflating his free throws (which are horrible) with his shooting.  I am fine with Rondo taking wide-open shots.

The problem with Rondo's "offness" is not limited to his shot. He commits bad turnovers, occasionally looks lost on defense, and is generally a liability to the team right now.

Whatever is going on with him, he needs to snap out of it.

Other players have been through similar things.  I agree that he needs to snap out of it, but honestly, this is just part of the season.  We see it each year.  Last year, we were just too distracted by Sheed's antics, KG and Pierce's injuries, and Rays slump/trade drama to notice it as much. 

[Fafnir]

Rondo is not that bad of a shooter.  Lately he's been off, admittedly, but I think that in general people are conflating his free throws (which are horrible) with his shooting.  I am fine with Rondo taking wide-open shots.

The problem with Rondo's "offness" is not limited to his shot. He commits bad turnovers, occasionally looks lost on defense, and is generally a liability to the team right now.

Whatever is going on with him, he needs to snap out of it.

Other players have been through similar things.  I agree that he needs to snap out of it, but honestly, this is just part of the season.  We see it each year.  Last year, we were just too distracted by Sheed's antics, KG and Pierce's injuries, and Rays slump/trade drama to notice it as much. 

Lets not forget that Deron Williams played like garbage for several stretches this year as well, it happens.

You just have to hope they don't let it happen in the playoffs.

[barefacedmonk]

That game was a rarity.

Rarity??

His notable productions this season: (I'm only including games where he had double digit points...because obviously for some people ppg is the only true measure of a good PG)

vs Cleveland : 18 points, 9 assists, 4 rebounds (.667 FG%)
vs Knicks : 10 points, 24 assists, 10 rebounds (.333 FG%)
vs Bucks: 17 points, 15 assists, 8 rebounds (.700 FG%)
vs Chicago: 10 points, 11 assists, 3 rebounds (.500 FG%)
vs Thunder: 10 points, 10 assists, 5 rebounds (.625 FG%)
vs Dallas: 11 points, 15 assists, 6 rebounds (.333 FG%)
vs Memphis: 11 points, 17 assists, 5 rebounds (.500 FG%)
vs Wizards: 12 points, 13 assists, 2 rebounds (.714 FG%)
vs Thunder: 14 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds (.700 FG%)
vs Cleveland: 23 points, 12 assists, 5 rebounds (.647 FG%)
vs Portland: 10 points, 10 assists, 1 rebound (.571 FG%)
vs Chicago: 12 points, 19 assists, 6 rebounds (.545 FG%)
vs 76ers: 19 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds (.643 FG%)
vs Knicks: 10 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds (.500 FG%)
vs Spurs: 12 points, 23 assists, 10 rebounds (.600 FG%)
vs Chicgao: 13 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds (.429 FG%)
vs Kings: 10 points, 13 assists, 4 rebounds (.455 FG%)
vs Bobcats: 18 points, 13 assists, 6 rebounds (.636 FG%)
vs Magic: 10 points, 12 assists, 4 rebounds (.833 FG%)
vs Wizards: 13 points, 9 assists, 2 rebounds (.500 FG%)
vs Cleveland: 11 points, 10 assists, 5 rebounds (.625 FG%)
vs Portland: 11 points, 5 assists, 6 rebounds (.625 FG%)
vs Lakers: 10 points, 16 assists, 5 rebounds (.556 FG%)
vs Kings: 17 points, 10 assists, 2 rebounds (.467 FG%)
vs Magic: 26 points, 7 assists, 1 rebound (.600 FG%)
vs Bobcats: 10 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds (.308 FG%)
vs Lakers: 12 points, 10 assists, 5 rebounds (.357 FG%)
vs Miami: 10 points, 10 assists, 10 rebouns (.500 FG%)
vs Warriors: 19 points, 15 assists, 6 rebounds (.750 FG%)
vs Utah, 18 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds (.563 FG%)
vs Suns: 16 points, 15 assists, 5 rebounds (.750 FG%0
vs Clippers: 13 points, 9 assists, 7 rebounds (.400 FG%)
vs 76ers: 12 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds (.500 FG%)

[Interceptor]

Rondo is not that bad of a shooter.  Lately he's been off, admittedly, but I think that in general people are conflating his free throws (which are horrible) with his shooting.  I am fine with Rondo taking wide-open shots.

The problem with Rondo's "offness" is not limited to his shot.

My post was limited to his shot.

[barefacedmonk]

BTW, Rondo's FG% for the last 10 games is .404...that includes the last two games where he has shot 1-6 and 1-10...remove the last two games at its .461 FG%. Two bad games and he's not a starter anymore.

For comparison:

Deron Williams' FG% this season - .449
Chris Pauls' - .473
Russell Westbrook's - .445
Derrick Rose's - .441
Rajon Rondo's - .490

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...he is hardly the type of player some threads are trying to portray him as in the past few days.

[kozlodoev]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

[clover]

Wow--the Rondo debate has taken over the Perk trade thread.

[barefacedmonk]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

Those other "elite" PGs are the primary offensive weapons on their teams...except Westbrook...but he too at times takes more shots than Durant...or if Durant is out then he takes on the primary role. Rondo doesn't have to do that..he has to facilitate the offense...not look to put up 20+ points every night.

EDIT: Deron Williams: FGA -891 FGM - 400 (.449 FG%)
      Chris Paul: FGA - 770 FGM - 360 (.467 FG%)
      Derrick Rose: FGA - 1291 FGM - 569 (.441 FG%)
      Russell Westbrook: FGA - 1132 FGM - 504 (.445 FG%)
      Rajon Rondo: FGA - 514 FGM - 252 (.490 FG%)

Notice the difference in Rondo shot attempts and the other players' shot attempts. Rondo doesn't take many shots because he has to feed the ball to 3 HOFers playing with him. He is required to get the ball to the Big 3...not ignore them and take his own shots.

[Interceptor]

Wow--the Rondo debate has taken over the Perk trade thread.

So... does this mean that the next step is that someone suggests trading Rondo for Perk?

I am confused and intrigued.

[kozlodoev]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

Those other "elite" PGs are the primary offensive weapons on their teams...except Westbrook...but he too at times takes more shots than Durant...or if Durant is out then he takes on the primary role. Rondo doesn't have to do that..he has to facilitate the offense...not look to put up 20+ points every night.

I am not comparing him to anyone. Just pointing out that the evidence directly contradicts your statement. He may know how to get his points, but this is far from a foregone conclusion.

But if that's the concern, given that when the team needs him to score in batches he has been off as many times as he's been on, his ability to slide into what you termed "elite primary offensive weapon PG" role is questionable, at best.