Who else thinks we made out like bandits in the Perkins trade? I know I do.

[Celtics4ever]

He definitely lost some lift as I would it call it, you call it explosiveness. 

Since 04-05 and I am not counting 03-04 his ten game rookie year for obvious reasons.  He has played in 454 of 574 possible games.  That is roughly only 80% of the games.  So he has missed 20% or 1 out of five games.  Some of these were DNP of course and early in his career he got some roster rigging I am sure.  But here is his injury history folks.

2011/02/25 Strained left MCL, day-to-day.
2011/01/25 Missed 43 games (right knee surgery).
2010/09/27 Right knee surgery, sidelined indefinitely.
2010/03/31 Missed 2 games (left knee injury).
2010/03/26 Left knee injury, day-to-day.
2010/03/03 Missed 1 game (flu).
2010/03/02 Flu, day-to-day.
2009/01/21 Missed 5 games (strained left shoulder).
2009/01/11 Strained left shoulder, day-to-day.
2008/12/28 Missed 1 game (left shoulder injury).
2008/12/26 Left shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2008/06/17 Missed Game 5 of the NBA Finals (strained left shoulder).
2008/06/15 Strained left shoulder, day-to-day.
2008/02/19 Missed 3 games (strained left shoulder).
2008/02/10 Strained left shoulder, day-to-day.
2007/12/14 Missed 1 game (toe injury).
2007/12/12 Toe injury, day-to-day.
2006/12/27 Missed 10 games (plantar fasciaitis in left foot).
2006/12/06 Plantar fasciaitis in left foot, inactive list.
2006/03/12 Missed 13 games (shoulder injury).
2006/02/10 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2004/04/14 Flu, injured list.
2004/01/23 Missed 19 games (tendinitis in right knee).
2003/12/30 Tendinitis in right knee, injured list.
2003/12/13 Missed 9 games (tendinitis in right knee).
2003/11/28 Tendinitis in right knee, injured list.
2003/11/14 Missed 8 games (bilateral patellar tendinitis).
2003/10/27 Bilateral patellar tendinitis, injured list.

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/teams/players/bio/?id=953

I would never call him fragile and we all know he doesn't lack toughness.   But dude has a long history of injury issues albeit most of them minor.  Lots of history of knee issues.

[droopdog7]

With the talk that Perk is a game or two away from returning with the Thunder, not really. 

I don't have a lot of faith in Perk being able to avoid re-injuring himself.  I would bet on him missing playoff games due to injury.

Why?  Outside of this season, he has been pretty healthy.

Yeah, I don't understand this, either.  Perk has never been particularly injury prone, and in the times where he has been injured, he's recovered very quickly.

There's definitely the possibility that he'll re-injure himself, but to predict that it's a near-certainty to happen just seems inconsistent with his track record.

Two things.  Perk has missed games due to the shoulder.  Second, his history doesn't factor in as much now that he HAS injured his knee.  He is less than a year removed from the injury and you could tell that he was nohwere near as explosive when he cam back.  Also, many think he injured his other knee BECAUSE he was making up for the injured one.

So while Perk has been relatively durable, right now, less than a year after a major injury, you should be able to see why some fans may not see him as reliable.

He didn't miss much time due to his shoulder.  It's not like he's fragile.

And yes, he injured his knee.  That puts him at risk of further injury, but it doesn't make it a near certainty -- or even likely -- that he will be re-injured in the short term.   Hundreds of athletes suffer knee injuries in their careers, and many of them have surgery and never have a further problem.  I mean, are Pats fans saying that it's likely that Tom Brady will miss next season due to injury, just because he hurt his knee in the past?

It's fair to wonder about his explosiveness, which is why I feel that the previous 12 games he played are probably more indicative of the Perk you'll see the rest of the season, as opposed to last year's version.  However, it just seems totally off the wall to predict that he'll be out for the season, or that he'll suffer re-injury.  Predictions like that are based on no evidence whatsoever.

But he's already had a set back.  Many people believe that his most recent injury is related to the knee. 

[Roy H.]

He definitely lost some lift as I would it call it, you call it explosiveness.  

Since 04-05 and I am not counting 03-04 his ten game rookie year for obvious reasons.  He has played in 454 of 574 possible games.  That is roughly only 80% of the games.  So he has missed 20% or 1 out of five games.  Some of these were DNP of course and early in his career he got some roster rigging I am sure.  But here is his injury history folks.

2011/02/25 Strained left MCL, day-to-day.
2011/01/25 Missed 43 games (right knee surgery).
2010/09/27 Right knee surgery, sidelined indefinitely.
2010/03/31 Missed 2 games (left knee injury).
2010/03/26 Left knee injury, day-to-day.
2010/03/03 Missed 1 game (flu).
2010/03/02 Flu, day-to-day.
2009/01/21 Missed 5 games (strained left shoulder).
2009/01/11 Strained left shoulder, day-to-day.
2008/12/28 Missed 1 game (left shoulder injury).
2008/12/26 Left shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2008/06/17 Missed Game 5 of the NBA Finals (strained left shoulder).
2008/06/15 Strained left shoulder, day-to-day.
2008/02/19 Missed 3 games (strained left shoulder).
2008/02/10 Strained left shoulder, day-to-day.
2007/12/14 Missed 1 game (toe injury).
2007/12/12 Toe injury, day-to-day.
2006/12/27 Missed 10 games (plantar fasciaitis in left foot).
2006/12/06 Plantar fasciaitis in left foot, inactive list.
2006/03/12 Missed 13 games (shoulder injury).
2006/02/10 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2004/04/14 Flu, injured list.
2004/01/23 Missed 19 games (tendinitis in right knee).
2003/12/30 Tendinitis in right knee, injured list.
2003/12/13 Missed 9 games (tendinitis in right knee).
2003/11/28 Tendinitis in right knee, injured list.
2003/11/14 Missed 8 games (bilateral patellar tendinitis).
2003/10/27 Bilateral patellar tendinitis, injured list.

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/teams/players/bio/?id=953

I would never call him fragile and we all know he doesn't lack toughness.   But dude has a long history of injury issues albeit most of them minor.  Lots of history of knee issues.

So, between 2006 and 2010, he missed a total of 38 games over 5 seasons, having one semi-serious injury in that time (a shoulder dislocation).

For comparison sake:  Ray Allen missed 49 games in that time period.  Paul Pierce missed 42 during that stretch.  Kevin Garnett lost 61 games to injury between '06 and '10.

In other words, until Game 7 of last year's Finals, Perk wasn't particularly injury prone.  In fact, compared to his peers, he was pretty durable.  

Things may change now that he's had a knee injury, but there's no guarantee that they will.  Obviously, OKC is willing to gamble that he'll be the same player that he was, for instance.  I just don't know why anybody would conclude that Perk is almost certainly going to miss much of the remaining season.  Nobody (including Danny) has claimed that as a realistic possibility, but some fans seem convinced it will happen.  It makes no sense.

But he's already had a set back.  Many people believe that his most recent injury is related to the knee. 

He had a very minor speculative setback that is being handled with rest, rather than surgery.  I don't see it as a major issue going forward, but who knows?  However, I don't think anybody outside of CelticsBlog expects Perk to miss the remainder of the season.

[clover]

I still think people are underestimating Krstic's defensive potential in this system.  Sure, Perk's got more strength and a  bigger scowl, but Krstic is taller and has more athleticism and mobility--especially since Perk's surgery this year. 

Perk knew the system cold, but Krstic has been learning very quickly.  He seems to learn defensively from the first half of a game to the second half, and be getting better game by game.  No, I'm not going to say he'll get to 100% of a healthy Perk's D, because I don't think he will.  And I hope Perk's back, with whatever hops he had, by next year.  But I think the chances are pretty good that he'll get to be roughly equivalent to what Perk could have delivered this spring.

[bbd24]

Roy, now knowing what Perkins got in terms of contract, would you of gambled on those knees and payed him that kind of money ? for the role he plays on the Celtics ?

OK obviously is, but what about you if you were the Celtic gm ?

[Roy H.]

Roy, now knowing what Perkins got in terms of contract, would you of gambled on those knees and payed him that kind of money ? for the role he plays on the Celtics ?

OK obviously is, but what about you if you were the Celtic gm ?

If I were the Celtics GM, I would have worried about the off-season in the off-season. 

In this day and age, though, I don't think that an ACL injury is the concern that it once was.  Tom Brady was an MVP after a major knee injury.  Okay, different sport.  What about Amare, who had the dreaded microfracture surgery, and who is now playing like an MVP?

In general, knee injuries aren't the huge concern that they once were.  The caveat to that is when a guy loses cartilage, like JO or Brandon Roy.  Once there's no cushion for your knee, it's going to be painful for the rest of their careers, and that can become a major concern.  However, for a guy coming off his first knee surgery, I wouldn't have any red flags.

[Chris]

Roy, now knowing what Perkins got in terms of contract, would you of gambled on those knees and payed him that kind of money ? for the role he plays on the Celtics ?

OK obviously is, but what about you if you were the Celtic gm ?

If I were the Celtics GM, I would have worried about the off-season in the off-season. 

In this day and age, though, I don't think that an ACL injury is the concern that it once was.  Tom Brady was an MVP after a major knee injury.  Okay, different sport.  What about Amare, who had the dreaded microfracture surgery, and who is now playing like an MVP?

In general, knee injuries aren't the huge concern that they once were.  The caveat to that is when a guy loses cartilage, like JO or Brandon Roy.  Once there's no cushion for your knee, it's going to be painful for the rest of their careers, and that can become a major concern.  However, for a guy coming off his first knee surgery, I wouldn't have any red flags.

I think you are underselling the knee injury a bit.  While guys like Amare have come back from them, others (Kenyon Martin, Michael Redd, etc.) have never been able to fully return.

But really, this is not about a long term prognosis anyways.  This is about him coming back, and being a force in the playoffs this season.  And there are shockingly few guys who have come back from an injury like Perkins' and been anything close to 100% this soon after the surgery.

I think there is a chance that there is a connection between Perkins most recent injury, and the way we rushed back from his previous knee injury.  He looked pretty good when he returned this season (although it was a small sample size, and generally not against playoff intensity competition...so hard to get a true judgement), but the fact that he got another injury so quickly tells me, perhaps, he came back too fast, and could not sustain the pace he was at.

Doc even said he was playing Perkins way too many minutes those first few games, and I think there were concerns of lingering effects of the injury.

Now, Perkins about as tough as they come, and would play through just about anything in the playoffs...but would he be anywhere near 100%?  And would he be good enough to justify keeping him on board?

Not to repeat myself, but we saw him for a handful of games in January and February.  He looked good, but he was not going against locked-in all stars every night, and part of him looking so good might have been that he was working so much harder than everyone else.  In the playoffs, everyone else will be working that hard, and I am not sure, if he is not 100%, if he will be nearly as effective.

Either way though, I still think the injury is not why Danny made the deal.  Yes, it was part of the spin, but Presti is not an idiot.  He would not have made the deal if they were not confident Perk could play.  Danny made the deal because he thought Green and Krstic made this team better, injury or not. 

[Roy H.]

Either way though, I still think the injury is not why Danny made the deal.  Yes, it was part of the spin, but Presti is not an idiot.  He would not have made the deal if they were not confident Perk could play.  Danny made the deal because he thought Green and Krstic made this team better, injury or not. 

I agree with this paragraph.  Both Presti and Danny are good GMs.  Presti preferred Perk for the Thunder, and Danny preferred Green + Krstic + a #1 for the Celtics. 

In terms of the injury, time will tell.  I feel confident that Perk will perform at least at the level as he did earlier this season, and I'm not overly scared of further injury.  There's certainly a risk of it, but I don't think that risk is anywhere near high enough to say that it's "likely" that he either won't play or won't be effective in the playoffs.

[alley oop]

Perk says Phil Jackson is arrogant, Pau Gasol soft
http://www.dailythunder.com/2011/03/perk-says-phil-jackson-is-arrogant-pau-gasol-soft/

In the newest issue of ESPN the Mag, Perkins and Kevin Durant were both asked a couple of the same questions with both having mostly differing opinions. All of it was pretty interesting, but the question, “Lakers: Team to beat or old news?” brought out the best in Perk.

“Yesterday’s news,” he said. “I don’t like Pau Gasol or Phil Jackson. Phil is arrogant. Pau is soft. Kobe tries to bring out his toughness, but he’s still soft.”

[csfansince60s]

Historically, a player with major reconstructive knee surgery, if they are ever to even approach their pre-injury status only do so in their second year back, not their first.

We only have to look at two of our own , TA and KG, to validate this assumption. Both struggled their first year back and bounced back their second year.

Assuming, arguendo, that Perk followed the same course and got back to pre-injury status next year, (if at all), a physically diminished Perk this year would not help us as much this year as healthy and productive Greean and Kristic.

Next year doesn't matter for two reasons. 1. We wanted to maximize our chances this year, and two healthy productive bodies is a better gamble than a questionable Perk. 2. Even if the new, reconstructed Perk was even better next year than pre-injury (which is substantively questionable), we would have lost him for nothing to OKC who had huge cap space and with whom we could never have competed.

[Neurotic Guy]

I rarely speculate about conversations that I am not privvy to,  but I truly believe that the following had to have happened prior to the trade:

Lawrence Frank, who coached Krstic for 4 seasons in NJ, had to be asked:
1) What is Nenad's work ethic?
2) How might Nenad's personality and attitude impact team chemistry?
3) What is Nenad's BBIQ/ knowledge of the game and ability to adapt to new systems?
4) How will Nenad's physical attributes (combined with above) translate to his capacity to play effective defense on this team:
    a) Size?
    b) Strength?
    c) Speed/ Quickness?
    d) Lateral movement?
5) What will we potentially gain offensively or lose defensively?

How could we have had anyone better than Lawrence Frank on this team to answer these type of questions?   I am convinced that Frank's knowledge of Krstic played a large role in assuring/convincing Danny that this trade was not going to downgrade the C's significantly on the defensive end.

I agree (with some) that the referendum on this trade is this year's championship.  Unfortunately for Danny, anything less than a banner will result in blame (unless, of course, Perk is injured). 

[clover]

Congratulations are due to Mr. Krstic:

"Nenad Krstic earned a Player of the Week nomination for his efforts last week.

Further highlighting his strong play, Celtics center Nenad Krstic was one of only four Eastern Confernece hoopsters nominated for Player of the Week honors last week (which went to Miami's Dwyane Wade).

Here's a quick glimpse at how Krstic performed last week:
* March 9 vs. Clippers: 17 points on 7-of-10 shooting, 9 rebounds, 38 minutes
* March 11 vs. 76ers: 16 points on 6-of-15 shooting, 15 rebounds, 34 minutes
* March 13 vs. Bucks: 11 points on 5-of-8 shooting, 14 rebounds, 27 minutes

For the month of March, Krstic is averaging 14.7 points and 8.5 rebounds over 29.2 minutes per game, while shooting 57.1 percent from the floor. In eight appearances for Boston, Krstic has scored double digits in all but his debut (when he chipped in nine points).

As we playfully noted last night, Krstic now boasts a longer double-double streak (2 games) than Kevin Love (0 games). Just pointing out facts."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4681679/krstic-nominated-for-p-o-w-honor

[clover]

I rarely speculate about conversations that I am not privvy to,  but I truly believe that the following had to have happened prior to the trade:

Lawrence Frank, who coached Krstic for 4 seasons in NJ, had to be asked:
1) What is Nenad's work ethic?
2) How might Nenad's personality and attitude impact team chemistry?
3) What is Nenad's BBIQ/ knowledge of the game and ability to adapt to new systems?
4) How will Nenad's physical attributes (combined with above) translate to his capacity to play effective defense on this team:
    a) Size?
    b) Strength?
    c) Speed/ Quickness?
    d) Lateral movement?
5) What will we potentially gain offensively or lose defensively?

How could we have had anyone better than Lawrence Frank on this team to answer these type of questions?   I am convinced that Frank's knowledge of Krstic played a large role in assuring/convincing Danny that this trade was not going to downgrade the C's significantly on the defensive end.

I agree (with some) that the referendum on this trade is this year's championship.  Unfortunately for Danny, anything less than a banner will result in blame (unless, of course, Perk is injured). 

I'd imagine having Frank here has also helped Krstic to feel comfortable.  It is also something of a compliment that his old coach's new team brought him in.

[bbd24]

Roy, now knowing what Perkins got in terms of contract, would you of gambled on those knees and payed him that kind of money ? for the role he plays on the Celtics ?

OK obviously is, but what about you if you were the Celtic gm ?

If I were the Celtics GM, I would have worried about the off-season in the off-season. 

In this day and age, though, I don't think that an ACL injury is the concern that it once was.  Tom Brady was an MVP after a major knee injury.  Okay, different sport.  What about Amare, who had the dreaded microfracture surgery, and who is now playing like an MVP?

In general, knee injuries aren't the huge concern that they once were.  The caveat to that is when a guy loses cartilage, like JO or Brandon Roy.  Once there's no cushion for your knee, it's going to be painful for the rest of their careers, and that can become a major concern.  However, for a guy coming off his first knee surgery, I wouldn't have any red flags.

The knee issue is just one of the factors. What about the money issue ?  Always a chance of getting nothing for a player if he walks on you. Considering what he landed, were you giving him that kind of money as the Celtics gm ?

[TradeProposalDude]

Its too early to say. Krstic has been a nice surprise, but then again, is his man on man defense where it should be? To effectively replace Perk's contribution at that end? It's debatable. Krstic is sure refreshing with his soft hands and offensive agility that Perkins lacked.

I'm not concerned so much with Krstic as I am about Jeff Green. Green perplexes and moreso frustrates me. I don't understand his game and ultimate role on the team. He plays down on the post and does so with inconsistency and discomfort. On the perimeter, he is somewhat of a ball stopper. Efficiency aside, he's neither a great penetrator nor shooter nor defender which make him a mystery. That being said, I'm happier with Green than Nate Robinson.

The true test at the center position will occur when Shaq returns. If Krstic and Shaq can provide offensive energy on their respective units, the Celtics made out fine. Otherwise, the Celtics have to gain comfort and synergy with a unit that has no experience playing in the postseason - which may not be a good thing.