IP Ranks Your 'Pick 2' Team By Division (All 6 Divs now in!)

[Roy H.]

I do think there's a little bit of separation at the top of the division between Folsom City and the other teams, but overall this is a very, very strong division.

Correction: A large degree of separation between LA and the trailing pack.

Thanks, WHo.  I was trying to be diplomatic, since I started with such an advantage as compared to the other teams.

[nickagneta]

IP,

I have read your assessments of the various divisions and have to say, I agree with 95% of your opinions and agree with what you believed to be playoff teams out East. This first division though, I don't agree with one assessment.

I don't even know, while doing this writing, who owns the Sacramento Kings with Cousins, Hinrich, Melo, Iggy, Bargs et al, and I apologize ahead of time if you feel slighted but I don't like this team's chemistry or makeup. Just way too many "me first", offensive oriented type players. There's no way, IMO, that team is a playoff team unless they plan to Doug Moe Denver Nuggets their way to the playoffs.

[action781]

Is this the place where Folsom City complains about the criminal disrespect being shown to their bench?  Every guy on the bench outside of Redick is an above-average defender, and Redick, Jones, Rush, Tolliver, and Watson are all shooting above 39% from three.

I'm a little surprised by that particular criticism, as I'd rank Folsom City's bench as one of the best in the NBA.  It's not full of big names, but it is full of guys who defend, shoot well, and fit into a team concept.

Team concept?  You mean are role players.  I would agree with that.  Except, when Kobe is sitting on the bench for 15 mpg, this team might have difficulty creating their own shots.

[Roy H.]

Is this the place where Folsom City complains about the criminal disrespect being shown to their bench?  Every guy on the bench outside of Redick is an above-average defender, and Redick, Jones, Rush, Tolliver, and Watson are all shooting above 39% from three.

I'm a little surprised by that particular criticism, as I'd rank Folsom City's bench as one of the best in the NBA.  It's not full of big names, but it is full of guys who defend, shoot well, and fit into a team concept.

Team concept?  You mean are role players.  I would agree with that.  Except, when Kobe is sitting on the bench for 15 mpg, this team might have difficulty creating their own shots.

I don't think the team would struggle too much in terms of creating offense.  I suppose if Phil Jackson substitutes the entire bench in all at once it could be an issue, but Gasol, Batum, and Chauncey are all capable of being a team's offensive focus in small doses.  Assuming Kobe plays 36 - 37 minutes per night, I think the other guys are more than capable of handling the offense.

And sure, the guys are role players.  Kobe has a large enough ego, and there's plenty of fire in the first unit.  The bench just need guys who play defense and who score efficiently, which this team has in abundance.  They're a top-3 defense and the best shooting team in the NBA.

[nickagneta]

Simply put, Folsom City(love the Johnny Cash reference BTW, if that's what you were going for) is one of the two best teams in this Pick 2 NBA and it isn't even close.

[action781]

Is this the place where Folsom City complains about the criminal disrespect being shown to their bench?  Every guy on the bench outside of Redick is an above-average defender, and Redick, Jones, Rush, Tolliver, and Watson are all shooting above 39% from three.

I'm a little surprised by that particular criticism, as I'd rank Folsom City's bench as one of the best in the NBA.  It's not full of big names, but it is full of guys who defend, shoot well, and fit into a team concept.

Team concept?  You mean are role players.  I would agree with that.  Except, when Kobe is sitting on the bench for 15 mpg, this team might have difficulty creating their own shots.

I don't think the team would struggle too much in terms of creating offense.  I suppose if Phil Jackson substitutes the entire bench in all at once it could be an issue, but Gasol, Batum, and Chauncey are all capable of being a team's offensive focus in small doses.  Assuming Kobe plays 36 - 37 minutes per night, I think the other guys are more than capable of handling the offense.

And sure, the guys are role players.  Kobe has a large enough ego, and there's plenty of fire in the first unit.  The bench just need guys who play defense and who score efficiently, which this team has in abundance.  They're a top-3 defense and the best shooting team in the NBA.

Batum capable of being a team's offensive focus???  Are we watching the same player?

[Roy H.]

Is this the place where Folsom City complains about the criminal disrespect being shown to their bench?  Every guy on the bench outside of Redick is an above-average defender, and Redick, Jones, Rush, Tolliver, and Watson are all shooting above 39% from three.

I'm a little surprised by that particular criticism, as I'd rank Folsom City's bench as one of the best in the NBA.  It's not full of big names, but it is full of guys who defend, shoot well, and fit into a team concept.

Team concept?  You mean are role players.  I would agree with that.  Except, when Kobe is sitting on the bench for 15 mpg, this team might have difficulty creating their own shots.

I don't think the team would struggle too much in terms of creating offense.  I suppose if Phil Jackson substitutes the entire bench in all at once it could be an issue, but Gasol, Batum, and Chauncey are all capable of being a team's offensive focus in small doses.  Assuming Kobe plays 36 - 37 minutes per night, I think the other guys are more than capable of handling the offense.

And sure, the guys are role players.  Kobe has a large enough ego, and there's plenty of fire in the first unit.  The bench just need guys who play defense and who score efficiently, which this team has in abundance.  They're a top-3 defense and the best shooting team in the NBA.

Batum capable of being a team's offensive focus???  Are we watching the same player?

Apparently not.  Blazers fans love the guy for a reason, and so do NBA GMs.

Again, I'm not talking about asking Batum to take over games.  Rather, he needs to be comfortable with the ball in his hands for a few minutes while Kobe is sitting.  Between Batum, Chauncey, and Gasol, finding scoring isn't going to be an issue, even when Kobe is out.

[Roy H.]

Simply put, Folsom City(love the Johnny Cash reference BTW, if that's what you were going for) is one of the two best teams in this Pick 2 NBA and it isn't even close.

Thanks, nick.  The team name was a way of poking fun at my biggest star (one has to swallow hard, inheriting Kobe), while also playing homage to one of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Ts4M3irWM

[Redz]

I can live with having the best team in my Division despite having done the worst job drafting.

TP for the in depth reports IP.

[mgent]

I don't know if you're doing the Southwest but I think my team could easily beat the Spurs.

Chris Paul >>>>>>>>>> Jason Kidd
Nick Young < Ginobli
Wilson Chandler > Rip at the 3??
David West >>>>>>>>>> Hakim Warrick/Al Harrington
Andris Biedrins < Duncan
Basically losing Parker hurts and Blair's rebounding is replaced by Warrick and Harrington.  Also a pretty big downgrade defensively from Richard Jefferson to Hamilton (although in my opinion defense is no longer a stregth for the Spurs).  And Paul will turn Kidd into a 3rd degree burn victim.

Not at all worried about Dallas and Memphis and I have no clue what Houston's roster looks like.

I think your little window vastly understates those two match ups. If CP3 is ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" better than Kidd, then Manu deserves even more over Nick Young. Same thing with Duncan/Biedrins.

Well from a stats perspective:

Nick Young: 17.6ppg on 45% shooting 39% from 3
Ginobli: 17.9ppg on 43% shooting 35% from 3

Biedrins: 5.7ppg on 55% shooting 8.2rpg
Duncan 13.4ppg on 48% shooting 9.2rpg

Chris Paul:  16.2ppg on 48% shooting 44% from 3, 9.6apg
Jason Kidd:  8.6ppg on 37% shooting 36% from 3, 8.1apg

Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, Kidd isn't even close to him.

Nick Young is a one dimensional chucker who doesn't get to the line, get assists, or defend well. Manu is one of the best all around SGs in the league, especially when it comes to handling the ball. Manu also out rebounds him by a healthy clip.

Even in scoring Manu is more efficient, with a TS% of .580 to .548.

Biedrins is similarly one dimensional except he just rebounds. Offensively he's a disaster, his raw FG% obscures his poor FT% and turnover problems. There is a reason he only get s 5.7 PPG in 25 minutes. Defensively the comparison to Duncan only gets worse.

Um okay I'm not arguing they're the better players.  I'm not asking Young to bring up the ball and play point/carry the rebounding load, and I'm not asking Biedrins to take more than the 1 shot per game or whatever he averages in GS's offense.

You're trying to say the gap between Duncan/Ginobli and Biedrins/Young is "even more" than the canyon between the #1 PG and a 38 year old Jason Kidd.  I don't think my evaluation of these matchups is nearly as ridiculous as you're implying.

This isn't 2005.  My guys would run this team of ancient sloths into the ground.

[nickagneta]

I don't know if you're doing the Southwest but I think my team could easily beat the Spurs.

Chris Paul >>>>>>>>>> Jason Kidd
Nick Young < Ginobli
Wilson Chandler > Rip at the 3??
David West >>>>>>>>>> Hakim Warrick/Al Harrington
Andris Biedrins < Duncan
Basically losing Parker hurts and Blair's rebounding is replaced by Warrick and Harrington.  Also a pretty big downgrade defensively from Richard Jefferson to Hamilton (although in my opinion defense is no longer a stregth for the Spurs).  And Paul will turn Kidd into a 3rd degree burn victim.

Not at all worried about Dallas and Memphis and I have no clue what Houston's roster looks like.

I think your little window vastly understates those two match ups. If CP3 is ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" better than Kidd, then Manu deserves even more over Nick Young. Same thing with Duncan/Biedrins.

Well from a stats perspective:

Nick Young: 17.6ppg on 45% shooting 39% from 3
Ginobli: 17.9ppg on 43% shooting 35% from 3

Biedrins: 5.7ppg on 55% shooting 8.2rpg
Duncan 13.4ppg on 48% shooting 9.2rpg

Chris Paul:  16.2ppg on 48% shooting 44% from 3, 9.6apg
Jason Kidd:  8.6ppg on 37% shooting 36% from 3, 8.1apg

Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, Kidd isn't even close to him.

Nick Young is a one dimensional chucker who doesn't get to the line, get assists, or defend well. Manu is one of the best all around SGs in the league, especially when it comes to handling the ball. Manu also out rebounds him by a healthy clip.

Even in scoring Manu is more efficient, with a TS% of .580 to .548.

Biedrins is similarly one dimensional except he just rebounds. Offensively he's a disaster, his raw FG% obscures his poor FT% and turnover problems. There is a reason he only get s 5.7 PPG in 25 minutes. Defensively the comparison to Duncan only gets worse.

Um okay I'm not arguing they're the better players.  I'm not asking Young to bring up the ball and play point/carry the rebounding load, and I'm not asking Biedrins to take more than the 1 shot per game or whatever he averages in GS's offense.

You're trying to say the gap between Duncan/Ginobli and Biedrins/Young is "even more" than the canyon between the #1 PG and a 38 year old Jason Kidd.  I don't think my evaluation of these matchups is nearly as ridiculous as you're implying.

This isn't 2005.  My guys would run this team of ancient sloths into the ground.

I have to disagree, The gap between Duncan/Ginobilli and Biedrins/Young is so vast that the difference in game between Paul and Kidd is pales in comparison. In Duncan/Ginobilli you are not only talking two of the top 20 players in the game today and over the last 10 years but also two players that have played together and have championship chemistry.  No amount of young legs or gap in today's talent between Paul and Kidd is going to come close to making up for that. Want proof. The Spurs of Duncan and Ginobilli have the best record in TODAY'S NBA.

[mgent]

I don't know if you're doing the Southwest but I think my team could easily beat the Spurs.

Chris Paul >>>>>>>>>> Jason Kidd
Nick Young < Ginobli
Wilson Chandler > Rip at the 3??
David West >>>>>>>>>> Hakim Warrick/Al Harrington
Andris Biedrins < Duncan
Basically losing Parker hurts and Blair's rebounding is replaced by Warrick and Harrington.  Also a pretty big downgrade defensively from Richard Jefferson to Hamilton (although in my opinion defense is no longer a stregth for the Spurs).  And Paul will turn Kidd into a 3rd degree burn victim.

Not at all worried about Dallas and Memphis and I have no clue what Houston's roster looks like.

I think your little window vastly understates those two match ups. If CP3 is ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" better than Kidd, then Manu deserves even more over Nick Young. Same thing with Duncan/Biedrins.

Well from a stats perspective:

Nick Young: 17.6ppg on 45% shooting 39% from 3
Ginobli: 17.9ppg on 43% shooting 35% from 3

Biedrins: 5.7ppg on 55% shooting 8.2rpg
Duncan 13.4ppg on 48% shooting 9.2rpg

Chris Paul:  16.2ppg on 48% shooting 44% from 3, 9.6apg
Jason Kidd:  8.6ppg on 37% shooting 36% from 3, 8.1apg

Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, Kidd isn't even close to him.

Nick Young is a one dimensional chucker who doesn't get to the line, get assists, or defend well. Manu is one of the best all around SGs in the league, especially when it comes to handling the ball. Manu also out rebounds him by a healthy clip.

Even in scoring Manu is more efficient, with a TS% of .580 to .548.

Biedrins is similarly one dimensional except he just rebounds. Offensively he's a disaster, his raw FG% obscures his poor FT% and turnover problems. There is a reason he only get s 5.7 PPG in 25 minutes. Defensively the comparison to Duncan only gets worse.

Um okay I'm not arguing they're the better players.  I'm not asking Young to bring up the ball and play point/carry the rebounding load, and I'm not asking Biedrins to take more than the 1 shot per game or whatever he averages in GS's offense.

You're trying to say the gap between Duncan/Ginobli and Biedrins/Young is "even more" than the canyon between the #1 PG and a 38 year old Jason Kidd.  I don't think my evaluation of these matchups is nearly as ridiculous as you're implying.

This isn't 2005.  My guys would run this team of ancient sloths into the ground.

I have to disagree, The gap between Duncan/Ginobilli and Biedrins/Young is so vast that the difference in game between Paul and Kidd is pales in comparison. In Duncan/Ginobilli you are not only talking two of the top 20 players in the game today and over the last 10 years but also two players that have played together and have championship chemistry.  No amount of young legs or gap in today's talent between Paul and Kidd is going to come close to making up for that. Want proof. The Spurs of Duncan and Ginobilli have the best record in TODAY'S NBA.

I don't see any proof.  Obviously Duncan and Ginobili alone aren't the only ones contributing to TODAY'S Spurs' success.  In the past you could certainly make the argument that by themselves they could carry a team to the Finals but they aren't in that category anymore.  In fact i think we could agree that Duncan has stepped a bit this year and has been less of a focal point of the offense. 

I think it's pretty clear that the real Spurs are a better team than the Pick Two Spurs.  They aren't capable of the number 1 offense in either league.  And defensively aside from Duncan they aren't good defensively.  Hamilton at the 3 would get destroyed, Jason Kidd is too slow to most PGs these days, Manu isn't the greatest defender, Kaman is the other C, and then at PF there's Hakim Warrick and Al Harrington.  And watch out if the other team has even a decent SF because their only one is Andres Nocioni.

Sorry I'm just not seeing it.

[StartOrien]

I am FUMING about this. Tomorrow, be prepared for some serious spreadsheets and pie charts.

First one "Totes Overrated Percentage" where I STATISTICALLY break down who is totes overrated.

[The Walker Wiggle]

First one "Totes Overrated Percentage" where I STATISTICALLY break down who is totes overrated.

Killed it.

P.S. I have absolutely been on the wrong end of one of these breakdowns. Look out Roy.

[indeedproceed]

Is this the place where Folsom City complains about the criminal disrespect being shown to their bench?  Every guy on the bench outside of Redick is an above-average defender, and Redick, Jones, Rush, Tolliver, and Watson are all shooting above 39% from three.

I'm a little surprised by that particular criticism, as I'd rank Folsom City's bench as one of the best in the NBA.  It's not full of big names, but it is full of guys who defend, shoot well, and fit into a team concept.

Team concept?  You mean are role players.  I would agree with that.  Except, when Kobe is sitting on the bench for 15 mpg, this team might have difficulty creating their own shots.

I don't think the team would struggle too much in terms of creating offense.  I suppose if Phil Jackson substitutes the entire bench in all at once it could be an issue, but Gasol, Batum, and Chauncey are all capable of being a team's offensive focus in small doses.  Assuming Kobe plays 36 - 37 minutes per night, I think the other guys are more than capable of handling the offense.

And sure, the guys are role players.  Kobe has a large enough ego, and there's plenty of fire in the first unit.  The bench just need guys who play defense and who score efficiently, which this team has in abundance.  They're a top-3 defense and the best shooting team in the NBA.

I really disagree about Batum, but that's I guess not the issue, as I think Redick can play they role against most teams' second units.

But this I disagree with:

Every guy on the bench outside of Redick is an above-average defender,

Anthony Tolliver is no coward or anything, but he's not an above average defender. Brandon Rush sometimes looks like a very good defender, but sometimes he looks like utter garbage. I blame his glaucoma medicine.

And James Jones? a good defender? Really?

Wait, there's more. He stopped rebounding two years ago; at one time he would block a surprising number of shots but he swatted just four last season. Plus, he offers virtually no defensive value. He's one of the rare players who is so limited that even if he shoots 40 percent on 3s, he's not going to be a rotation player.

The 7 man rotation of Billups/Bryant/Batum/Gasol/Haywood/Redick/Randolph is solid, if Randolph pans out as an impact player. I mean that's a home run right there.

Anthony Tolliver is an okay piece in the same way that a guy like Reggie Williams is an okay piece. They could even start a few games, and they are certainly rotation players. I don't know if I'd want Tolliver to be in a contest with Chuck Hayes to see who the second true center should be, but Gasol will sop up most of those minutes anyway.

Speaking of Chuck Hayes, he's solid too. He'll go nicely next to Gasol, and complement Gasol's softness with his tough play. The thing I wonder though is that if Randolph is getting 20 mins + a night (which I assume you're banking on if you want him to be productive like he was in Golden State), and Gasol gets say 35, and Haywood gets 30..that leaves 11 total rotation minutes for Tolliver and Hayes..so who gets the burn? The more well rounded player or the gritty tough defender?

EDIT: And I would say that JJ Redick is about as good a man defender as a terrier is at killing a bear. He might not always get the win on ever possession..or even most of them if it is a big bear, but you know he's trying really, really hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIqn6xlRvEE