IP Ranks Your 'Pick 2' Team By Division (All 6 Divs now in!)

[indeedproceed]

IP,

I have read your assessments of the various divisions and have to say, I agree with 95% of your opinions and agree with what you believed to be playoff teams out East. This first division though, I don't agree with one assessment.

I don't even know, while doing this writing, who owns the Sacramento Kings with Cousins, Hinrich, Melo, Iggy, Bargs et al, and I apologize ahead of time if you feel slighted but I don't like this team's chemistry or makeup. Just way too many "me first", offensive oriented type players. There's no way, IMO, that team is a playoff team unless they plan to Doug Moe Denver Nuggets their way to the playoffs.

Carmelo Anthony was drafted in 2003, same year as LeBron James, same year as Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade...

Do you know which player of those 4 has never, ever missed the playoffs? I don't think that just because Paul Westphal would need to figure out how to make sure Demarcus Cousins doesn't eat him and Andre igouadala stays effective.

[Roy H.]

Tolliver is Anthony Randolph insurance.  Chuck Hayes is in the top four of the big man rotation.  (What don't you like about him as a backup center?  He's undersized, but he's putting up good numbers and is excellent on defense.)  For the record, though, Tolliver absolutely is an above-average defender.

Also, you're massively underrating Rush's defense.  Take a look (after you expand the pick to readable levels):



Rush's defense is pretty much in the elite category.  Defensive statistical metrics are flawed, but when a guy is shutting down his opponent in just about defensive set, it says a lot about the guy.

As for Jones, here's an article on how Jones still remains a good defender, despite the loss of some athleticism:  Link.

I do appreciate the Hollinger quote, though, which was apparently to prior to this season.  Hollinger's suggestion that Jones can't be a rotation player seems kind of silly now, doesn't it, since Jones has been a rotation player for the Heat all year, and has performed well in that role.  Also, Hollinger's "projected stats" aren't even close for Jones.

[indeedproceed]

I'm not buyin what you're sellin, Hobbs. I will admit you're tops in the Pacific, I will even admit you're probably tops in the West when it is all said and done..but I will not...I repeat WILL NOT admit that A) James Jones is an above average defender, no matter what Dan Lebatard says, B) admit Brandon Rush to being an elite defender, because watching bits and pieces of Pacers games and watching him fly in and out of the lineup and seeing that knucklehead screw me twice in fantasy basketball, I don't believe even his bowel movements are consistent, and C) If you're calling Anthony Tolliver "above average", does that mean Reggie Williams is also an above average defender?

[Roy H.]

I'm not buyin what you're sellin, Hobbs. I will admit you're tops in the Pacific, I will even admit you're probably tops in the West when it is all said and done..but I will not...I repeat WILL NOT admit that A) James Jones is an above average defender, no matter what Dan Lebatard says, B) admit Brandon Rush to being an elite defender, because watching bits and pieces of Pacers games and watching him fly in and out of the lineup and seeing that knucklehead screw me twice in fantasy basketball, I don't believe even his bowel movements are consistent, and C) If you're calling Anthony Tolliver "above average", does that mean Reggie Williams is also an above average defender?

Eh...  So you're holding fantasy production against Rush's defense?  And you're basing your assessment of Jones' defense on something Hollinger said before the season, which has proven to be untrue?  Same thing with Tolliver...  Both Warriors and Wolves fans have constantly applauded his defense on various forums, and from the times I've seen him play, he seems to play defense intelligently and with a lot of effort.

Anyway, this isn't a competitive draft, so there's really no vested interest in "selling" anything.  If I hadn't put together a top two team, it would have been a massive failure, since I had such an inherent advantage at the start of this thing.  Like has been emphasized, there are no "winners" here.

In other words, I have no reason to pimp guys, other than I think they'd operate well in tandem in "real life".  That's the case here.  I think you -- and obviously a lot of other people -- underrate a lot of the guys who don't get a lot of publicity in the league.  Just because talking heads aren't talking about Brandon Rush's defense, or aren't mentioning James Jones' role on the Heat, or don't recognize the reasons why Anthony Tolliver is hanging on in the league, doesn't mean that those things aren't reality.

[indeedproceed]

Actually I've followed Tolliver a lot. Ever since his called up from the D-Leagues. I like him a lot as a rotation player, and I thought the wolves made a great choice in choosing him, but I just don't think he's that amazing a defender.

I guess I'm confused on what an 'above average defender' means. Who is an 'average defender'?

[KCattheStripe]

Actually I've followed Tolliver a lot. Ever since his called up from the D-Leagues. I like him a lot as a rotation player, and I thought the wolves made a great choice in choosing him, but I just don't think he's that amazing a defender.

I guess I'm confused on what an 'above average defender' means. Who is an 'average defender'?

The Charlattle Bobcats called, they want to know where all this Anthony Tolliver love was 6 months ago.

[indeedproceed]

Actually I've followed Tolliver a lot. Ever since his called up from the D-Leagues. I like him a lot as a rotation player, and I thought the wolves made a great choice in choosing him, but I just don't think he's that amazing a defender.

I guess I'm confused on what an 'above average defender' means. Who is an 'average defender'?

The Charlattle Bobcats called, they want to know where all this Anthony Tolliver love was 6 months ago.

Was he on your team? Because...eh...that might be the contributing factor. (is there an awkward smile smiley face? if so, pretend I put it here)

[Who]

My ratings of LA's bench player's defensive quality ...

James Jones, JJ Redick and Anthony Tolliver are all below average but serviceable defensive players mainly because they are all solid team defenders. They operate well within a system and rotate well and when they are supposed to plus with solid quickness relative to their respective positions.

Brandon Rush is an above average albeit inconsistent / unreliable defensive player. CJ Watson is an average to slightly above average defensive player. Chuck Hayes is a very talented defensive player.

Anthony Randolph is a poor defensive player.

[KCattheStripe]

Actually I've followed Tolliver a lot. Ever since his called up from the D-Leagues. I like him a lot as a rotation player, and I thought the wolves made a great choice in choosing him, but I just don't think he's that amazing a defender.

I guess I'm confused on what an 'above average defender' means. Who is an 'average defender'?

The Charlattle Bobcats called, they want to know where all this Anthony Tolliver love was 6 months ago.

Was he on your team? Because...eh...that might be the contributing factor. (is there an awkward smile smiley face? if so, pretend I put it here)

I swear, you guys need to just assume that a player I like is good until proven otherwise.

[Roy H.]

Actually I've followed Tolliver a lot. Ever since his called up from the D-Leagues. I like him a lot as a rotation player, and I thought the wolves made a great choice in choosing him, but I just don't think he's that amazing a defender.

I guess I'm confused on what an 'above average defender' means. Who is an 'average defender'?

I don't think Tolliver is an amazing defender (although Wolves fans seem to disagree with me, describing his D as "stellar"), but he is pretty good.

It's hard to pin an exact "average" for defenders.  "Above average" to me means anywhere from "good most of the time" to "excellent".  Below average means from "poor most of the time" to "terrible".  In terms of an average defensive big man?  I don't know, Elton Brand?  He's pretty good as a center, but gets burned at times.  As a power forward, he's pretty poor, but can handle certain matchups well.  And yes, I think Tolliver is a better defender than Brand.

[indeedproceed]

Actually I've followed Tolliver a lot. Ever since his called up from the D-Leagues. I like him a lot as a rotation player, and I thought the wolves made a great choice in choosing him, but I just don't think he's that amazing a defender.

I guess I'm confused on what an 'above average defender' means. Who is an 'average defender'?

I don't think Tolliver is an amazing defender (although Wolves fans seem to disagree with me, describing his D as "stellar"), but he is pretty good.

It's hard to pin an exact "average" for defenders.  "Above average" to me means anywhere from "good most of the time" to "excellent".  Below average means from "poor most of the time" to "terrible".  In terms of an average defensive big man?  I don't know, Elton Brand?  He's pretty good as a center, but gets burned at times.  As a power forward, he's pretty poor, but can handle certain matchups well.  And yes, I think Tolliver is a better defender than Brand.

Okay. I can accept Elton Brand as an average defender.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I think it's pretty clear that the real Spurs are a better team than the Pick Two Spurs. They aren't capable of the number 1 offense in either league.  And defensively aside from Duncan they aren't good defensively.  Hamilton at the 3 would get destroyed, Jason Kidd is too slow to most PGs these days, Manu isn't the greatest defender, Kaman is the other C, and then at PF there's Hakim Warrick and Al Harrington.  And watch out if the other team has even a decent SF because their only one is Andres Nocioni.

You're doing a real disservice to the Pick Two Spurs backcourt. Ginobili is having a career year in terms of offensive efficiency and remains one of the league's better wing defenders. He has both great positioning and very active hands. (He's currently 12th in the league in steals. Only T.A. ranks higher and plays fewer minutes and he's far more mistake prone.) While Kidd is still one of the NBA's best passers and a solid defender, given his foot speed and the fact that this is the worst time in league history to guard the point guard position. He remains a great rebounder and strong system defender. And, since the Ellis and Curry backcourt got broken up at the outset, I don't believe there's another starting twosome that forces more turnovers (judging by STL%).

And Hamilton acquits himself fairly well defending and scratching and grabbing the 3. He's 6'7" and long. Although you are right any lineup that features Rip at the 3 and either Harrington or Warrick at the 4 is going to struggle to rebound the basketball. Kidd is only going to help so much. In fact, if he's finally healthy, I'd start Kaman at center - though he's badly overrated - and move Duncan to the 4.

You know who's terrible defensively in isolation? David West.

[indeedproceed]

Man, you know I thought this draft was going to quietly fade away..now I'm really glad I wrote out 3000 words plus breaking it down by division. At least is Spurred some competition (as opposed to "pick 2 spurred" some competition, which has a totally different look).

[Who]

As for Jones, here's an article on how Jones still remains a good defender, despite the loss of some athleticism:  Link.

Fun clipping from that article

Coach Erik Spoelstra values Jones' role as a defender, which could lead to continued minutes despite the return of Mike Miller.

It should be noted that Miller is regarded as a top-notch defender and likely will command more minutes as his conditioning and reaction time to the Heat's defensive schemes improve.

[Atzar]

Regarding Atlanta, I think you're selling me short at the center position - Horford is admittedly going to play more C than I originally intended, but it feels like you're implying that Horford is a liability at the center position, which is far from the case.  He's better as a power forward, but he's still way above average as a center.  I think a duo of Haslem and Horford could be extremely effective on both ends of the court - Harris/Johnson/Brewer/Haslem/Horford gives me very good defenders at every position, as well as potent offense. 

I also question why you believe that my outlook is the worst in my division.  This is not an old team, and many of the pieces (Harris, Aminu, Brewer, Horford, James Anderson) could become better players in a few years than they are now.  They're a playoff-team-slash-darkhorse-contender right now, and they aren't going anywhere for several years.