IP Ranks Your 'Pick 2' Team By Division (All 6 Divs now in!)

[StartOrien]

IP,

I have read your assessments of the various divisions and have to say, I agree with 95% of your opinions and agree with what you believed to be playoff teams out East. This first division though, I don't agree with one assessment.

I don't even know, while doing this writing, who owns the Sacramento Kings with Cousins, Hinrich, Melo, Iggy, Bargs et al, and I apologize ahead of time if you feel slighted but I don't like this team's chemistry or makeup. Just way too many "me first", offensive oriented type players. There's no way, IMO, that team is a playoff team unless they plan to Doug Moe Denver Nuggets their way to the playoffs.

A team with Carmelo Anthony and Andre Iguodala are going to make the playoffs. Every time. Stack the division up anyway you'd like it. They'll be there. I assure you that.

How is it that the Denver Nuggets can operate their offense but this team can't? Sure, Iguodala doesn't have the same range as billups, but he also has can work better w/o the ball as a slasher, and in my opinion moves the ball better than Billups does.

And then, because we have to elite wings we shouldn't have a terrific post player in DeMarcus Cousins? A Player whose been praised for his passing ability? That wouldn't work well with 2 elite wings and a smart PG who can shoot from range? Try typing in 'DeMarcus Cousins NBA Playbook' on your alta vista when you get a chance.

Andre Bargnani is listed as a bench player who'd range 20-25 minutes. Read the lineup.

PS: Hinrich. He owns the team. Kirk Hinrich

[indeedproceed]

Regarding Atlanta, I think you're selling me short at the center position - Horford is admittedly going to play more C than I originally intended, but it feels like you're implying that Horford is a liability at the center position, which is far from the case.  He's better as a power forward, but he's still way above average as a center.  I think a duo of Haslem and Horford could be extremely effective on both ends of the court - Harris/Johnson/Brewer/Haslem/Horford gives me very good defenders at every position, as well as potent offense. 

I also question why you believe that my outlook is the worst in my division.  This is not an old team, and many of the pieces (Harris, Aminu, Brewer, Horford, James Anderson) could become better players in a few years than they are now.  They're a playoff-team-slash-darkhorse-contender right now, and they aren't going anywhere for several years.

Ah, allow me to explain, because I think you misunderstood a couple of my intentions.

I think Atlanta is a solid team. I say that like 4 times in the review..but I think Atlanta is a significantly better team with Horford at the 4. Since playing Horford at the 4 isn't really an option with Przybilla's health and Magloire's terribleness, I think that holds you back from climbing as high as you might otherwise. That's not to say I think that keeps you out of the playoffs, or even just in the the first round..I just think it means you're not a real contender.

The "Pick 2 Success" is not just limited to the outlook on the future either..its also about how you improved your current squad. You weren't going to get Josh Smith back, and you wanted to play Horford at the 4. So you had a great opportunity to improve your standing at the PG (which you did), and either greatly improve on Marvin Williams (Atlanta's other 3) or Zaza..which you didn't.

Now Horford at the 5 next to one of Haslem or Ryan Anderson is still a pretty darn good frontcourt. Very good. But the thing I saw here is that while Haslem is very good defensively, and probably a better man on post defender than Josh Smith, he's nowhere near the defense presence Smith is..just not even close. Josh Smith finished 2nd in DPOY voting last season, second only to Dwight Howard. That's how much everyone feared his help defense. Your best help defender now is Horford. Aminu is a good prospect, but I don't think he's a guy you want (as a team who sees themselves as contending now) starting at the 3..we don't even know if he'll be as consistent as Williams yet.

So while I think there is potential there for Aminu, and a great upgrade at the 1..the loss of Smith was never really overcome. I don't think your outlook going forward is bad...you're not going to get worse or anything..I just didn't think you improved vastly on what you were given..you kind of chained yourself to what the gameplan already was..except you probably stayed mostly neutral at the 3, stepped back in a big way at the 4, and stepped forward in a big way at the 1.

EDIT: And for those of you who are really taking me seriously, don't. I'm not giving the best team a medal or even a sticky smiley face. I might have been commissioner, but honestly all I am right now is a guy who wants to keep on talking about this stuff. The crap I'm spewing doesn't matter, I'm just the only one who wants to spend his team looking at this stuff across the league this in depth. I encourage everyone to write their own divisions rankings, tell us how you think you stack up. I'd be glad to hear it and waste an hour or two telling you why I agree or disagree..that's what the pick 2 is about.

And if you put "Pick 2 Draft Winner" in your sig, I will ban you. I'm a moderator. We can do that stuff.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I'm not giving the best team a medal or even a sticky smiley face.

Just my luck.

[Atzar]

Regarding Atlanta, I think you're selling me short at the center position - Horford is admittedly going to play more C than I originally intended, but it feels like you're implying that Horford is a liability at the center position, which is far from the case.  He's better as a power forward, but he's still way above average as a center.  I think a duo of Haslem and Horford could be extremely effective on both ends of the court - Harris/Johnson/Brewer/Haslem/Horford gives me very good defenders at every position, as well as potent offense.  

I also question why you believe that my outlook is the worst in my division.  This is not an old team, and many of the pieces (Harris, Aminu, Brewer, Horford, James Anderson) could become better players in a few years than they are now.  They're a playoff-team-slash-darkhorse-contender right now, and they aren't going anywhere for several years.

Ah, allow me to explain, because I think you misunderstood a couple of my intentions.

I think Atlanta is a solid team. I say that like 4 times in the review..but I think Atlanta is a significantly better team with Horford at the 4. Since playing Horford at the 4 isn't really an option with Przybilla's health and Magloire's terribleness, I think that holds you back from climbing as high as you might otherwise. That's not to say I think that keeps you out of the playoffs, or even just in the the first round..I just think it means you're not a real contender.

The "Pick 2 Success" is not just limited to the outlook on the future either..its also about how you improved your current squad. You weren't going to get Josh Smith back, and you wanted to play Horford at the 4. So you had a great opportunity to improve your standing at the PG (which you did), and either greatly improve on Marvin Williams (Atlanta's other 3) or Zaza..which you didn't.

Now Horford at the 5 next to one of Haslem or Ryan Anderson is still a pretty darn good frontcourt. Very good. But the thing I saw here is that while Haslem is very good defensively, and probably a better man on post defender than Josh Smith, he's nowhere near the defense presence Smith is..just not even close. Josh Smith finished 2nd in DPOY voting last season, second only to Dwight Howard. That's how much everyone feared his help defense. Your best help defender now is Horford. Aminu is a good prospect, but I don't think he's a guy you want (as a team who sees themselves as contending now) starting at the 3..we don't even know if he'll be as consistent as Williams yet.

So while I think there is potential there for Aminu, and a great upgrade at the 1..the loss of Smith was never really overcome. I don't think your outlook going forward is bad...you're not going to get worse or anything..I just didn't think you improved vastly on what you were given..you kind of chained yourself to what the gameplan already was..except you probably stayed mostly neutral at the 3, stepped back in a big way at the 4, and stepped forward in a big way at the 1.

EDIT: And for those of you who are really taking me seriously, don't. I'm not giving the best team a medal or even a sticky smiley face. I might have been commissioner, but honestly all I am right now is a guy who wants to keep on talking about this stuff. The crap I'm spewing doesn't matter, I'm just the only one who wants to spend his team looking at this stuff across the league this in depth. I encourage everyone to write their own divisions rankings, tell us how you think you stack up. I'd be glad to hear it and waste an hour or two telling you why I agree or disagree..that's what the pick 2 is about.

And if you put "Pick 2 Draft Winner" in your sig, I will ban you. I'm a moderator. We can do that stuff.

Nah, no hard feelings.  I know it's all in good fun.

Having said that, Josh Smith is a disruptive help defender, and the reason I drafted Ariza (who was flipped for Haslem) and Brewer was primarily to replace that disruptive defense.  Brewer doesn't block shots like Smith does, but he's one of the best at racking up steals and he's hard to handle in transition.  Ask the Lakers, he seems to like dunking on them.  So, while Brewer or Aminu might not necessarily be better than Williams in a vacuum, I'd argue that they become better fits in this system with the departure of Smith - kind of in the same way that Ginobili's gambling, fly-all-over-the-court defense complements the rock-solid-take-no-chances defense that Duncan and Parker provide for San Antonio.  

[Who]

I think Josh Smith is a highly over-rated defensive player.

The range of things he is capable of doing at a high level defensively is nothing short of spectacular ... but his focus + effort levels on being on a dominant defensive player and making his squad a dominant defensive team are very disappointing.

Josh Smith could be a great defensive player ... but he's not one yet.

[Who]

I think Josh Smith is a highly over-rated defensive player.

The range of things he is capable of doing at a high level defensively is nothing short of spectacular ... but his focus + effort levels on being on a dominant defensive player and making his squad a dominant defensive team are very disappointing.

Josh Smith could be a great defensive player ... but he's not one yet.

On that note,

(1) I think a Udonis Haslem + Al Horford partnership will be almost as good defensively as Josh Smith and Horford.

(2) I think the Hawks' main lineup (Haslem + Horford) will be a better defensive team than the actual Hawks' starting five ... due to Devin Harris replacing Mike Bibby.

Aminu will be a downgrade from Marvin Williams but he is a good defender in his own right.

[Atzar]

I think Josh Smith is a highly over-rated defensive player.

The range of things he is capable of doing at a high level defensively is nothing short of spectacular ... but his focus + effort levels on being on a dominant defensive player and making his squad a dominant defensive team are very disappointing.

Josh Smith could be a great defensive player ... but he's not one yet.

On that note,

(1) I think a Udonis Haslem + Al Horford partnership will be almost as good defensively as Josh Smith and Horford.

(2) I think the Hawks' main lineup (Haslem + Horford) will be a better defensive team than the actual Hawks' starting five ... due to Devin Harris replacing Mike Bibby.

Aminu will be a downgrade from Marvin Williams but he is a good defender in his own right.

What if I started Brewer instead of Aminu?  I feel like Brewer's gambles would be much more effective when surrounded with other very good defenders - they could cover him when he gets burned, like KG and Perk do for Rondo. 

[Who]

I think Josh Smith is a highly over-rated defensive player.

The range of things he is capable of doing at a high level defensively is nothing short of spectacular ... but his focus + effort levels on being on a dominant defensive player and making his squad a dominant defensive team are very disappointing.

Josh Smith could be a great defensive player ... but he's not one yet.

On that note,

(1) I think a Udonis Haslem + Al Horford partnership will be almost as good defensively as Josh Smith and Horford.

(2) I think the Hawks' main lineup (Haslem + Horford) will be a better defensive team than the actual Hawks' starting five ... due to Devin Harris replacing Mike Bibby.

Aminu will be a downgrade from Marvin Williams but he is a good defender in his own right.

What if I started Brewer instead of Aminu?  I feel like Brewer's gambles would be much more effective when surrounded with other very good defenders - they could cover him when he gets burned, like KG and Perk do for Rondo. 

Defensively, Corey gives you more than Aminu. I prefer Aminu over Brewer for offensive + rebounding reasons.

Either way, it won't make a huge difference to your team overall. The difference between them individually is fairly marginal + the difference in minutes probably won't be that large either.

[nickagneta]

BTW, IP, Thanks for the very kind words regarding the Portland Trailblazers.

Had a lot of fun this draft.

Next up come April...CB Historical Draft...probably doing an all-time version this year.

[slamtheking]

I don't know if you're doing the Southwest but I think my team could easily beat the Spurs.

Chris Paul >>>>>>>>>> Jason Kidd
Nick Young < Ginobli
Wilson Chandler > Rip at the 3??
David West >>>>>>>>>> Hakim Warrick/Al Harrington
Andris Biedrins < Duncan
Basically losing Parker hurts and Blair's rebounding is replaced by Warrick and Harrington.  Also a pretty big downgrade defensively from Richard Jefferson to Hamilton (although in my opinion defense is no longer a stregth for the Spurs).  And Paul will turn Kidd into a 3rd degree burn victim.

Not at all worried about Dallas and Memphis and I have no clue what Houston's roster looks like.

I think your little window vastly understates those two match ups. If CP3 is ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" better than Kidd, then Manu deserves even more over Nick Young. Same thing with Duncan/Biedrins.

Well from a stats perspective:

Nick Young: 17.6ppg on 45% shooting 39% from 3
Ginobli: 17.9ppg on 43% shooting 35% from 3

Biedrins: 5.7ppg on 55% shooting 8.2rpg
Duncan 13.4ppg on 48% shooting 9.2rpg

Chris Paul:  16.2ppg on 48% shooting 44% from 3, 9.6apg
Jason Kidd:  8.6ppg on 37% shooting 36% from 3, 8.1apg

Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, Kidd isn't even close to him.

Nick Young is a one dimensional chucker who doesn't get to the line, get assists, or defend well. Manu is one of the best all around SGs in the league, especially when it comes to handling the ball. Manu also out rebounds him by a healthy clip.

Even in scoring Manu is more efficient, with a TS% of .580 to .548.

Biedrins is similarly one dimensional except he just rebounds. Offensively he's a disaster, his raw FG% obscures his poor FT% and turnover problems. There is a reason he only get s 5.7 PPG in 25 minutes. Defensively the comparison to Duncan only gets worse.

Thanks Fafnir. 

Mgent --> Kaman's my starting PF, not Warrick or Harrington.  Kaman's more than holds his own against West and in my opinion, is a better player.

I'd stack these Spurs up against your team without hesitation.  The Spurs bench is also better in my opinion.

[slamtheking]

I think it's pretty clear that the real Spurs are a better team than the Pick Two Spurs. They aren't capable of the number 1 offense in either league.  And defensively aside from Duncan they aren't good defensively.  Hamilton at the 3 would get destroyed, Jason Kidd is too slow to most PGs these days, Manu isn't the greatest defender, Kaman is the other C, and then at PF there's Hakim Warrick and Al Harrington.  And watch out if the other team has even a decent SF because their only one is Andres Nocioni.

You're doing a real disservice to the Pick Two Spurs backcourt. Ginobili is having a career year in terms of offensive efficiency and remains one of the league's better wing defenders. He has both great positioning and very active hands. (He's currently 12th in the league in steals. Only T.A. ranks higher and plays fewer minutes and he's far more mistake prone.) While Kidd is still one of the NBA's best passers and a solid defender, given his foot speed and the fact that this is the worst time in league history to guard the point guard position. He remains a great rebounder and strong system defender. And, since the Ellis and Curry backcourt got broken up at the outset, I don't believe there's another starting twosome that forces more turnovers (judging by STL%).

And Hamilton acquits himself fairly well defending and scratching and grabbing the 3. He's 6'7" and long. Although you are right any lineup that features Rip at the 3 and either Harrington or Warrick at the 4 is going to struggle to rebound the basketball. Kidd is only going to help so much. In fact, if he's finally healthy, I'd start Kaman at center - though he's badly overrated - and move Duncan to the 4.

You know who's terrible defensively in isolation? David West.

Thanks WW.

Agree with everything you said except I have Kaman and Duncan switched as PF and C.  Bottom line, they're my starting frontcourt and they'll play the best matchup defensively just like in the real NBA game.

Mgent, let me respond to your statement:
"I think it's pretty clear that the real Spurs are a better team than the Pick Two Spurs."
WELL DUH! 

The real Spurs have the best record in the league by far so there's now way I'm going to improve upon that.  Throw in the fact I'm drafting last each round and improving on the current roster would be a feat worthy of making me a real GM in the NBA.  Having said that, I think I did pretty well building a team that, IMHO, isn't a that much worse than the current team considering the bench is much better than the current team (from top to bottom).

Is Kidd as good as he was 5 years ago?  no.  But, he's still an elite passer, excellent rebounder for his position and can still register a triple double -- particularly with this roster.  CP3 can beat him off the dribble--no argument there.  But I can play Kidd in the post and put CP3 in foul trouble or have Kidd pass out of any double team to any of the other starters who are all more than capable of scoring.  And while I'm at it, I have less worries about CP3 driving into the lane when I have Duncan and Kaman as the backline of defense than you should have with West and Biedrins trying to deal with Kidd going to the hole.

[Rondo2287]

I think it's pretty clear that the real Spurs are a better team than the Pick Two Spurs. They aren't capable of the number 1 offense in either league.  And defensively aside from Duncan they aren't good defensively.  Hamilton at the 3 would get destroyed, Jason Kidd is too slow to most PGs these days, Manu isn't the greatest defender, Kaman is the other C, and then at PF there's Hakim Warrick and Al Harrington.  And watch out if the other team has even a decent SF because their only one is Andres Nocioni.

You're doing a real disservice to the Pick Two Spurs backcourt. Ginobili is having a career year in terms of offensive efficiency and remains one of the league's better wing defenders. He has both great positioning and very active hands. (He's currently 12th in the league in steals. Only T.A. ranks higher and plays fewer minutes and he's far more mistake prone.) While Kidd is still one of the NBA's best passers and a solid defender, given his foot speed and the fact that this is the worst time in league history to guard the point guard position. He remains a great rebounder and strong system defender. And, since the Ellis and Curry backcourt got broken up at the outset, I don't believe there's another starting twosome that forces more turnovers (judging by STL%).

And Hamilton acquits himself fairly well defending and scratching and grabbing the 3. He's 6'7" and long. Although you are right any lineup that features Rip at the 3 and either Harrington or Warrick at the 4 is going to struggle to rebound the basketball. Kidd is only going to help so much. In fact, if he's finally healthy, I'd start Kaman at center - though he's badly overrated - and move Duncan to the 4.

You know who's terrible defensively in isolation? David West.

Thanks WW.

Agree with everything you said except I have Kaman and Duncan switched as PF and C.  Bottom line, they're my starting frontcourt and they'll play the best matchup defensively just like in the real NBA game.

Mgent, let me respond to your statement:
"I think it's pretty clear that the real Spurs are a better team than the Pick Two Spurs."
WELL DUH! 

The real Spurs have the best record in the league by far so there's now way I'm going to improve upon that.  Throw in the fact I'm drafting last each round and improving on the current roster would be a feat worthy of making me a real GM in the NBA.  Having said that, I think I did pretty well building a team that, IMHO, isn't a that much worse than the current team considering the bench is much better than the current team (from top to bottom).

Is Kidd as good as he was 5 years ago?  no.  But, he's still an elite passer, excellent rebounder for his position and can still register a triple double -- particularly with this roster.  CP3 can beat him off the dribble--no argument there.  But I can play Kidd in the post and put CP3 in foul trouble or have Kidd pass out of any double team to any of the other starters who are all more than capable of scoring.  And while I'm at it, I have less worries about CP3 driving into the lane when I have Duncan and Kaman as the backline of defense than you should have with West and Biedrins trying to deal with Kidd going to the hole.

I might use either rip or manu to defend the PG and move Kidd to defend nick young.  Kid is long enough to bother him and young isnt going to drive so kidd won't have to worry about that.

[mgent]

I don't know if you're doing the Southwest but I think my team could easily beat the Spurs.

Chris Paul >>>>>>>>>> Jason Kidd
Nick Young < Ginobli
Wilson Chandler > Rip at the 3??
David West >>>>>>>>>> Hakim Warrick/Al Harrington
Andris Biedrins < Duncan
Basically losing Parker hurts and Blair's rebounding is replaced by Warrick and Harrington.  Also a pretty big downgrade defensively from Richard Jefferson to Hamilton (although in my opinion defense is no longer a stregth for the Spurs).  And Paul will turn Kidd into a 3rd degree burn victim.

Not at all worried about Dallas and Memphis and I have no clue what Houston's roster looks like.

I think your little window vastly understates those two match ups. If CP3 is ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>" better than Kidd, then Manu deserves even more over Nick Young. Same thing with Duncan/Biedrins.

Well from a stats perspective:

Nick Young: 17.6ppg on 45% shooting 39% from 3
Ginobli: 17.9ppg on 43% shooting 35% from 3

Biedrins: 5.7ppg on 55% shooting 8.2rpg
Duncan 13.4ppg on 48% shooting 9.2rpg

Chris Paul:  16.2ppg on 48% shooting 44% from 3, 9.6apg
Jason Kidd:  8.6ppg on 37% shooting 36% from 3, 8.1apg

Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, Kidd isn't even close to him.

Nick Young is a one dimensional chucker who doesn't get to the line, get assists, or defend well. Manu is one of the best all around SGs in the league, especially when it comes to handling the ball. Manu also out rebounds him by a healthy clip.

Even in scoring Manu is more efficient, with a TS% of .580 to .548.

Biedrins is similarly one dimensional except he just rebounds. Offensively he's a disaster, his raw FG% obscures his poor FT% and turnover problems. There is a reason he only get s 5.7 PPG in 25 minutes. Defensively the comparison to Duncan only gets worse.

Thanks Fafnir. 

Mgent --> Kaman's my starting PF, not Warrick or Harrington.  Kaman's more than holds his own against West and in my opinion, is a better player.

I'd stack these Spurs up against your team without hesitation.  The Spurs bench is also better in my opinion.

Oh okay, I gotcha, although I bet Duncan and Kaman will have trouble against any type of remotely quick frontcourt.

I still think my team would win in a series.

[Chris]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

[KCattheStripe]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

Did Brandon Roy's knees magically sprout cartilage?