In an alternate universe where Miami make the finals, does LBJ choke like always

[nba is the worst]

Moranis, he isn't capable of taking a team to the finals and winning.   Bird and MJ shot .50% for their careers.  This kid can't shoot like the all time greats.  He didn't throw the game, the real LeBron showed up.

Larry Bird career 2PT% 50.89%, career 3PT% 37.6%

Michael Jordan career 2PT% 51.02%, career 3PT% 32.7%

Lebron James career 2PT% 51.31%, career 3PT% 33.1%

I'll give you Lebron's career FT% of 74.4% doesn't measure up to Michael or Larry who were both in the mid to upper 80's, but Lebron is every bit the shooter that Larry and Michael were.

According to basketball-reference.com, Lebron's career FG% is 47.6%. In 7 and a half seasons, he's only shot over 50% once (50.3%).

Jordan is at 49.7%, with 6 years over 50%, best was 53.9%

Bird, 49.6%, 5 seasons over 50%, best was 52.7%.

Lbj isn't as good a shooter by any stretch of the imagination.

[indeedproceed]

Lbj isn't as good a shooter by any stretch of the imagination.

That's true..but he's better than then at certain parts of the game too. Bird was the best shooter of the 3, and the best passer, although I don't think LeBron as a facilitator is too far behind Bird.

Jordan is the best scorer of the three, but because of his athleticism, I don't think LeBron is too far behind Jordan.

As far as all-around talent, I think he's on par with those guys at age 26.

Whether or not he'll be remembered in the same light when his career is over though will depend on what he does or doesn't achieve in Miami.

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

[BballTim]

Moranis, he isn't capable of taking a team to the finals and winning.   Bird and MJ shot .50% for their careers.  This kid can't shoot like the all time greats.  He didn't throw the game, the real LeBron showed up.

Larry Bird career 2PT% 50.89%, career 3PT% 37.6%

Michael Jordan career 2PT% 51.02%, career 3PT% 32.7%

Lebron James career 2PT% 51.31%, career 3PT% 33.1%

I'll give you Lebron's career FT% of 74.4% doesn't measure up to Michael or Larry who were both in the mid to upper 80's, but Lebron is every bit the shooter that Larry and Michael were.

According to basketball-reference.com, Lebron's career FG% is 47.6%. In 7 and a half seasons, he's only shot over 50% once (50.3%).

Jordan is at 49.7%, with 6 years over 50%, best was 53.9%

Bird, 49.6%, 5 seasons over 50%, best was 52.7%.

Lbj isn't as good a shooter by any stretch of the imagination.

  He's separating out the 2 point shooting from the 3 point shooting to illustrate the fact that LeBron's lower fg% stems at least in part from him taking more threes than MJ. Jordan's career efg% is .509, LeBron's is .510 and Bird's is .514.

[BballTim]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

[mgent]

Moranis, he isn't capable of taking a team to the finals and winning.   Bird and MJ shot .50% for their careers.  This kid can't shoot like the all time greats.  He didn't throw the game, the real LeBron showed up.

Larry Bird career 2PT% 50.89%, career 3PT% 37.6%

Michael Jordan career 2PT% 51.02%, career 3PT% 32.7%

Lebron James career 2PT% 51.31%, career 3PT% 33.1%

I'll give you Lebron's career FT% of 74.4% doesn't measure up to Michael or Larry who were both in the mid to upper 80's, but Lebron is every bit the shooter that Larry and Michael were.

This is a joke right?

Rondo also shoots 50% from the field I bet he's every bit the shooter that MJ and Larry were too.

[BballTim]

Moranis, he isn't capable of taking a team to the finals and winning.   Bird and MJ shot .50% for their careers.  This kid can't shoot like the all time greats.  He didn't throw the game, the real LeBron showed up.

Larry Bird career 2PT% 50.89%, career 3PT% 37.6%

Michael Jordan career 2PT% 51.02%, career 3PT% 32.7%

Lebron James career 2PT% 51.31%, career 3PT% 33.1%

I'll give you Lebron's career FT% of 74.4% doesn't measure up to Michael or Larry who were both in the mid to upper 80's, but Lebron is every bit the shooter that Larry and Michael were.

This is a joke right?

Rondo also shoots 50% from the field I bet he's every bit the shooter that MJ and Larry were too.

  Clearly Bird was the best shooter of the three but it's worth pointing out that the main reason MJ hit more than 30% of his threes was the three years that they played with the three point line moved closer to the basket.

[nba is the worst]

"Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong. "

Do you mind if I borrow this?

Good stuff...

[BballTim]

"Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong. "

Do you mind if I borrow this?

Good stuff...

  Yeah, discussions generally go much smoother when one party knows from the start that their opinion is the incorrect one.

[indeedproceed]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

[indeedproceed]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

And maybe I need to expand on this. LeBron has the perfect game to make a poor team achieve greater heights than they would otherwise. I don't think mentally he's close to the force that Larry or Jordan were, and I don't know if he has the wherewithal to be able to will a great team that is down past another great team. But, his body doesn't break down, he's a freak athlete, and he's got incredible basketball awareness...and that'll make a 34 yr old Donyell Marshall a rotation player on a finals team in a weak year.

[BballTim]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

  If you're not saying that LeBron's a better player or contributes more to a team, then you're saying that someone who's a better player or contributes more to a team wouldn't be able to take the team farther than that "lesser" player.

[BballTim]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

And maybe I need to expand on this. LeBron has the perfect game to make a poor team achieve greater heights than they would otherwise. I don't think mentally he's close to the force that Larry or Jordan were, and I don't know if he has the wherewithal to be able to will a great team that is down past another great team. But, his body doesn't break down, he's a freak athlete, and he's got incredible basketball awareness...and that'll make a 34 yr old Donyell Marshall a rotation player on a finals team in a weak year.

  Incredible basketball awareness compared to Bird?

[indeedproceed]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

  If you're not saying that LeBron's a better player or contributes more to a team, then you're saying that someone who's a better player or contributes more to a team wouldn't be able to take the team farther than that "lesser" player.

I've literally been clicking refresh about once every 30 seconds for this response, so don't think I'm taking it lightly..but honestly, you lost me there.

I don't think LeBron in Larry's shoes on those Celtics teams would equal the magic that happened in a stacked league, and I don't think LeBron in Michael's shoes would equal six titles in one decade on those Bulls teams.

But I also don't think Larry or Michael could've taken the Cavs teams of the last 4 years farther than LeBron did. LeBron's coaches were worse, his teammates as seen this season is the worst collection of talent in the NBA, and he was under 25 yrs old the whole time. I don't think that <25 yr old Larry or Michael could've done much better.

Maybe Michael..looking back at what he did in the mid to late 80's...maybe he could've taken LeBron's team past the Magic 2 yrs ago.

[indeedproceed]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

And maybe I need to expand on this. LeBron has the perfect game to make a poor team achieve greater heights than they would otherwise. I don't think mentally he's close to the force that Larry or Jordan were, and I don't know if he has the wherewithal to be able to will a great team that is down past another great team. But, his body doesn't break down, he's a freak athlete, and he's got incredible basketball awareness...and that'll make a 34 yr old Donyell Marshall a rotation player on a finals team in a weak year.

  Incredible basketball awareness compared to Bird?

No. Larry had better awareness, but nowhere near LeBron's athleticism was my point. Nobody in the history of the NBA has had a physical body like LeBron's along with his skillset.

EDIT: Maybe Oscar Robertson, but that's just from reading stuff other people had to say about him. I have never watched more than a 5 min clip of Robertson.

I think that's where we're getting crossed. I think Larry was a better shooter and teammate. I think Michael was a better scorer. I think they were both much, much better leaders. But, I also think LeBron's durability, his athleticism, and his more well-rounded game makes him uniquely able to fill in multiple flaws on a poor team, to take them from god-awful to good. I don't think however that he necessarily has the game (which Michael and Larry did) to take good teams and make them historically great.

[BballTim]

EDIT: And also, if anyone thinks that Bird or Jordan would've done more than LeBron did if they had similar supporting casts at similar ages, you're just wrong. Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.

  This would imply that James is clearly a superior player to MJ and Larry, both individually and as a contributor to the team as a whole. Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

No, I don't mean to imply that. What I do mean to imply is that neither MJ or Bird could've taken LeBron's Cavs teams farther than LeBron did (at the ages LeBron did those things). Neither Larry or MJ could've willed those teams past the Spurs, Celtics, Magic, and Celtics teams that have defeated them in the last 4 years during the playoffs, and neither MJ or Bird could've taken those teams to better regular season records.

What I am not implying is that LBJ could've won 6 titles with those Bulls teams, or taken Birds' 80's celtics teams farther.

And maybe I need to expand on this. LeBron has the perfect game to make a poor team achieve greater heights than they would otherwise. I don't think mentally he's close to the force that Larry or Jordan were, and I don't know if he has the wherewithal to be able to will a great team that is down past another great team. But, his body doesn't break down, he's a freak athlete, and he's got incredible basketball awareness...and that'll make a 34 yr old Donyell Marshall a rotation player on a finals team in a weak year.

  Incredible basketball awareness compared to Bird?

No. Larry had better awareness, but nowhere near LeBron's athleticism was my point. Nobody in the history of the NBA has had a physical body like LeBron's along with his skillset.

EDIT: Maybe Oscar Robertson, but that's just from reading stuff other people had to say about him. I have never watched more than a 5 min clip of Robertson.

I think that's where we're getting crossed. I think Larry was a better shooter and teammate. I think Michael was a better scorer. I think they were both much, much better leaders. But, I also think LeBron's durability, his athleticism, and his more well-rounded game makes him uniquely able to fill in multiple flaws on a poor team, to take them from god-awful to good. I don't think however that he necessarily has the game (which Michael and Larry did) to take good teams and make them historically great.

  I'd wonder whether you ever saw more than 5 minute clips of Bird if you think LeBron has a more well-rounded game than he did. Bird was the better shooter, better passer, better rebounder.