CB Draft Finals: Q&A, Video, and Trash Talk Thread!

[Roy H.]

Also, for the Suns:  if Noah *doesn't* get in foul trouble, can you win this series, and why?

At the end of the day IP has to get 96 minutes out of a three man rotation: Ilyasova, Noah and Armundson. 96 minutes. And only two of those players are capable of trying to defend Dwight Howard. What happens if any of them gets in trouble?  Why isn't exhausting more of a topic when two players are getting HUGE bumps in minutes per game.

This kind of rotation works in the East, but not against a team that has Dwight Howard.

Let's say that Noah can give 36 - 38 minutes, though, which is probably around what Howard is going to average, based upon historical averages.

A large part of your strategy seems to be based upon Howard dominating against bench guys.  What if IP's starters can stay in the game against Howard, though.  Does Orlando have a chance?

On its face, I'd say that Noah is a better defensive player relative to Howard than Salmons is to Lebron.  Fair?

[Who]

Also, for the Suns:  if Noah *doesn't* get in foul trouble, can you win this series, and why?

At the end of the day IP has to get 96 minutes out of a three man rotation: Ilyasova, Noah and Armundson. 96 minutes. And only two of those players are capable of trying to defend Dwight Howard. What happens if any of them gets in trouble?  Why isn't exhausting more of a topic when two players are getting HUGE bumps in minutes per game.

This kind of rotation works in the East, but not against a team that has Dwight Howard.

Only Joakim Noah is capable of defending Dwight Howard.

Ilyasova isn't. Amundson isn't.

Omer Asik might be able to defend him at a serviceable (albeit below average) level in the post but I'm not sure he can keep up with Dwight in the pick and roll, in transition or making correct decisions on whether to stick with Dwight or help on dribble penetration from other Suns players.

It's Noah or bust.

[StartOrien]

Phoenix, is it fair to say that the times he's lost in the playoffs, Lebron has had a significantly better (and physically stronger) player on him than John Salmons?  In the 2009 playoffs, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (neither of whom are on Lebron's level) had some big games when Salmons was helping defend them.  Won't Lebron have even more success?

No, it isn't fair. In 2009 when he lost to the Dwight Howard led Orlando Magic there was no "Pierce-type." Check out the statline of that 09 series, its next to impossible for him to reach the same to more success. Someone else has to help, and the Bulls don't have enough help.

To be clear, I was saying that Pierce was one of the guys who had good numbers against Salmons, not that a Pierce-like player needed to defend Lebron.

In '09, I think Pietrus matched up on Lebron a lot.  He's a better defender and physically stronger than Salmons, isn't he?

And again, Lebron James lost to Dwight Howard's Magic in 6 games when he averaged 38.5 points per game! I'm not setting the bar this low for my defensive squad, but he can't do it himself. ESPECIALLY against Dwight Howard.

[Roy H.]

Phoenix, is it fair to say that the times he's lost in the playoffs, Lebron has had a significantly better (and physically stronger) player on him than John Salmons?  In the 2009 playoffs, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (neither of whom are on Lebron's level) had some big games when Salmons was helping defend them.  Won't Lebron have even more success?

No, it isn't fair. In 2009 when he lost to the Dwight Howard led Orlando Magic there was no "Pierce-type." Check out the statline of that 09 series, its next to impossible for him to reach the same to more success. Someone else has to help, and the Bulls don't have enough help.

To be clear, I was saying that Pierce was one of the guys who had good numbers against Salmons, not that a Pierce-like player needed to defend Lebron.

In '09, I think Pietrus matched up on Lebron a lot.  He's a better defender and physically stronger than Salmons, isn't he?

And again, Lebron James lost to Dwight Howard's Magic in 6 games when he averaged 38.5 points per game! I'm not setting the bar this low for my defensive squad, but he can't do it himself. ESPECIALLY against Dwight Howard.

In fairness to Lebron, he lost Game 1 by one point, because he got 5 points combined from his entire bench.

He lost Game 4 by one point because his bench was weak, and because Alston went off for 26 points.

Are those things you can count on happening against IP?  He lost two games by one point each to an Orlando squad that is better than your Phoenix team.  Will that be replicated?

[StartOrien]

Also, for the Suns:  if Noah *doesn't* get in foul trouble, can you win this series, and why?

At the end of the day IP has to get 96 minutes out of a three man rotation: Ilyasova, Noah and Armundson. 96 minutes. And only two of those players are capable of trying to defend Dwight Howard. What happens if any of them gets in trouble?  Why isn't exhausting more of a topic when two players are getting HUGE bumps in minutes per game.

This kind of rotation works in the East, but not against a team that has Dwight Howard.

Let's say that Noah can give 36 - 38 minutes, though, which is probably around what Howard is going to average, based upon historical averages.

A large part of your strategy seems to be based upon Howard dominating against bench guys.  What if IP's starters can stay in the game against Howard, though.  Does Orlando have a chance?

On its face, I'd say that Noah is a better defensive player relative to Howard than Salmons is to Lebron.  Fair?

100% agreed Roy, there's no sense in arguing the difference between Salmons-Lebron, Noah-Howard. But the difference is surrounding scorers, my team is loaded with fire power who all can score at a high level, and have shown the ability to do so at a high level.

On the otherhand, IP's team is asking a lot of a second year guard who shot below .400 last season. His other players are nothing more than role players. I have to keep harpng on it, this is Cavs-Magic 09'.

[Fafnir]

Also, for the Suns:  if Noah *doesn't* get in foul trouble, can you win this series, and why?

At the end of the day IP has to get 96 minutes out of a three man rotation: Ilyasova, Noah and Armundson. 96 minutes. And only two of those players are capable of trying to defend Dwight Howard. What happens if any of them gets in trouble?  Why isn't exhausting more of a topic when two players are getting HUGE bumps in minutes per game.

This kind of rotation works in the East, but not against a team that has Dwight Howard.

Only Joakim Noah is capable of defending Dwight Howard.

Ilyasova isn't. Amundson isn't.

Omer Asik might be able to defend him at a serviceable (albeit below average) level in the post but I'm not sure he can keep up with Dwight in the pick and roll, in transition or making correct decisions on whether to stick with Dwight or help on dribble penetration from other Suns players.

It's Noah or bust.

Yeah any time Howard is in the game Noah will be as well. Unless he's in foul trouble then Asik is probably going to have to hack him a bunch.

[Who]

LeBron James should defend John Salmons whenever LeBron and M.Miller are on the wings together. When TA enters the game, he can take the assignment. LeBron can switch onto Hedo Turkoglu or one of the lesser wings.

I don't think Chicago can win without a big defensive performance from LeBron.

I don't think Salmons or Turkoglu are capable of being effective offensively against LeBron's defense / athleticism.

[StartOrien]

Phoenix, is it fair to say that the times he's lost in the playoffs, Lebron has had a significantly better (and physically stronger) player on him than John Salmons?  In the 2009 playoffs, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (neither of whom are on Lebron's level) had some big games when Salmons was helping defend them.  Won't Lebron have even more success?

No, it isn't fair. In 2009 when he lost to the Dwight Howard led Orlando Magic there was no "Pierce-type." Check out the statline of that 09 series, its next to impossible for him to reach the same to more success. Someone else has to help, and the Bulls don't have enough help.

To be clear, I was saying that Pierce was one of the guys who had good numbers against Salmons, not that a Pierce-like player needed to defend Lebron.

In '09, I think Pietrus matched up on Lebron a lot.  He's a better defender and physically stronger than Salmons, isn't he?

And again, Lebron James lost to Dwight Howard's Magic in 6 games when he averaged 38.5 points per game! I'm not setting the bar this low for my defensive squad, but he can't do it himself. ESPECIALLY against Dwight Howard.

In fairness to Lebron, he lost Game 1 by one point, because he got 5 points combined from his entire bench.

He lost Game 4 by one point because his bench was weak, and because Alston went off for 26 points.

Are those things you can count on happening against IP?  He lost two games by one point each to an Orlando squad that is better than your Phoenix team.  Will that be replicated?

How is that Orlando team better than mine?

Davis > Alston
Lee = Matthews
Turkoglu
Jamison < Lewis
Howard

Salmons > Pietrus, Davis/Monroe = Gortat/Battie, Fernandez & Terrence Williams > Anthony Johnson

[Roy H.]

\

I don't think Chicago can win without a big defensive performance from LeBron.

I think a big defensive performance from Lebron is almost a given.  John Salmons isn't a consistent enough producer to make Lebron work all that hard, and Turkoglu is past his prime.  I think this is a fairly easy defensive matchup for Lebron, especially since he's handled much harder defensive assignments in the "real" playoffs.

I'm honestly expecting Lebron to outscore his opposing small forward by 20 to 25 points per night.  I'm just not sure if Lebron's teammates can keep Phoenix from making up that gap.

[StartOrien]

LeBron James should defend John Salmons whenever LeBron and M.Miller are on the wings together. When TA enters the game, he can take the assignment. LeBron can switch onto Hedo Turkoglu or one of the lesser wings.

I don't think Chicago can win without a big defensive performance from LeBron.

I don't think Salmons or Turkoglu are capable of being effective offensively against LeBron's defense / athleticism.

I think this is why I'd guess at the end of the day you'd see a decent amount of Salmons & Turkoglu. A lot of wing pick n rolls against whichever guy doesn't draw Lebron.

From there we'd hope to either get easy buckets off this, or catch Lebron being undisciplined and trying to overcompensate.

[Roy H.]

Phoenix, is it fair to say that the times he's lost in the playoffs, Lebron has had a significantly better (and physically stronger) player on him than John Salmons?  In the 2009 playoffs, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (neither of whom are on Lebron's level) had some big games when Salmons was helping defend them.  Won't Lebron have even more success?

No, it isn't fair. In 2009 when he lost to the Dwight Howard led Orlando Magic there was no "Pierce-type." Check out the statline of that 09 series, its next to impossible for him to reach the same to more success. Someone else has to help, and the Bulls don't have enough help.

To be clear, I was saying that Pierce was one of the guys who had good numbers against Salmons, not that a Pierce-like player needed to defend Lebron.

In '09, I think Pietrus matched up on Lebron a lot.  He's a better defender and physically stronger than Salmons, isn't he?

And again, Lebron James lost to Dwight Howard's Magic in 6 games when he averaged 38.5 points per game! I'm not setting the bar this low for my defensive squad, but he can't do it himself. ESPECIALLY against Dwight Howard.

In fairness to Lebron, he lost Game 1 by one point, because he got 5 points combined from his entire bench.

He lost Game 4 by one point because his bench was weak, and because Alston went off for 26 points.

Are those things you can count on happening against IP?  He lost two games by one point each to an Orlando squad that is better than your Phoenix team.  Will that be replicated?

How is that Orlando team better than mine?

Davis > Alston
Lee = Matthews
Turkoglu
Jamison < Lewis
Howard

Salmons > Pietrus, Davis/Monroe = Gortat/Battie, Fernandez & Terrence Williams > Anthony Johnson

I think Turkoglu has declined a lot, and while B. Diddy in general is better than Alston, Alston had some big games in that playoff run and is a better outside shooter.  Gortat is a better defensive player than anybody you have on your bench, and I like the Pietrus/Reddick off the bench more than your guys.

Most importantly, though, the '09 Orlando team had a better team defense and better shooting.  Individual talents don't matter as much compared to the team as a whole.

[indeedproceed]

Chicago and Phoenix, please state how your team stacks up in relation to your opponent in the following areas:

1. Defense
-Dwight Howard is the reigning defensive MVP. CHicago has a 2x All-Defensive team member in LeBron, an elite post defender in Joakim Noah, good defenders in Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova, and excellent bench defenders in Tony Allen and Louis Amundson, both of which can play multiple positions. Phoenix has the DPOY, and I'm better defensively at every other position, and still pretty good at center.

2. Rebounding
-Same story, different qualification. Dwight Howard is the best rebounder in the league, but Joakim Noah isn't far behind. 13 RPG for Howard to 11 RPG for Noah; works out to be a 18.3 RP48 for Howard, 17.6 for Noah. Ilyasova gets 6.4 RPG in 23 minutes compared to Jamison's 8.4 RPG in 36.5 minutes. LeBron is the third best rebounding SF, Miller the best rebounding SG, and Brandon Jennings averages 3.4 RPG, compared to Baron Davis. Just like with the defensive question, Phoenix has the best individual, but I have the better team, and still pretty good at center.

3. Ball movement
-Hedo Turkoglu is a solid passer and Baron Davis is also a pretty solid PG. LeBron James is the best passing SF since Larry Bird. Brandon Jennings averages 6 assists per game, Baron averages 8. LeBron averages 8.6 assists per game, Turkoglu averages 4.1. Mike Miller is a pretty decent passer at the 2, Noah is a good passer from the 5 (better than Dwight), and Ersan Ilyasova is a good passer at the 4, but probably on par with Jamison. Chicago has the best passer and the better team.

4. Post play
-Phoenix wins here pretty handily. Both Jamison and Howard can score in the paint, while it is not a strength for Noah and Ilyasova is more perimeter oriented offensively. LeBron should do it more, but rarely uses his post game..not that he would need to here anyways.

5. Shooting
-Phoenix has some good shooters, but so does Chicago. Mike Miller was 2nd in the league in 3pt %, while John Salmons and Wes Matthews clock in at 38% each. Brandon Jennings for Chicago comes in next at 37% from deep, with Hedo Turkoglu right behind him. As a starter Ilyasova shoots 34.5% from 3, Jamison shoots 34.4%. LeBron James is the tie-breaker with 33%, because Baron Davis is pretty bad at 27% from 3.

As far as overall shooting goes, I think its a wash between the two teams. It will come down to who is better able to stop the other team from scoring.  

6. Clutch play
-I would have said LeBron before this years' playoffs. Now, I don't think either team really excels. Both teams superstars wilted this season in the playoffs, so really does it even matter? Which one legged man is the best tap-dancer?

7. Leadership
-I really like Chicago here, and I know people are going to disagree with me, but let me outline one of the big reasons for "the trade" that made a lot of sense to me.

LeBron has proven that he can take being the center of attention as the best player on a team, and he has proven he can inspire loyalty from his teammates. One thing he hasn't shown an ability to do is pick his team up when they are down.

Joakim Noah was the emotional leader on the 2005 and 2006 Florida Gators NCAA champions. He refuses to accept losing, and won't give up even when faced with opposing odds. He's got a bigger than life personality to go with his 7ft frame (and 8ft hair) and he's not scared to tell his teammates if he thinks they're messing him. That includes LeBron James.

Brandon Jennings is a self-made man. He went overseas instead of college. He was drafted later in the lottery than he thought he deserved. The best player on his team was injured, and he managed to lead them to a 5-2 record to close out the season (passing Charlotte for the 5th overall seed), and led the team that pushed the 3 seed Atlanta Hawks to a 7 game series. Brandon Jennings might be a rookie this year, but next year he'll be a sophomore, and this kid is a leader.

8. Depth
Amundson is better than anyone on Phoenix's bigs rotation. Tony Allen is a better defender than anyone on Phoenix's team besides Dwight Howard. John Salmons is a very good scorer.

[nickagneta]

Phoenix, is it fair to say that the times he's lost in the playoffs, Lebron has had a significantly better (and physically stronger) player on him than John Salmons?  In the 2009 playoffs, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (neither of whom are on Lebron's level) had some big games when Salmons was helping defend them.  Won't Lebron have even more success?

No, it isn't fair. In 2009 when he lost to the Dwight Howard led Orlando Magic there was no "Pierce-type." Check out the statline of that 09 series, its next to impossible for him to reach the same to more success. Someone else has to help, and the Bulls don't have enough help.

To be clear, I was saying that Pierce was one of the guys who had good numbers against Salmons, not that a Pierce-like player needed to defend Lebron.

In '09, I think Pietrus matched up on Lebron a lot.  He's a better defender and physically stronger than Salmons, isn't he?

And again, Lebron James lost to Dwight Howard's Magic in 6 games when he averaged 38.5 points per game! I'm not setting the bar this low for my defensive squad, but he can't do it himself. ESPECIALLY against Dwight Howard.

In fairness to Lebron, he lost Game 1 by one point, because he got 5 points combined from his entire bench.

He lost Game 4 by one point because his bench was weak, and because Alston went off for 26 points.

Are those things you can count on happening against IP?  He lost two games by one point each to an Orlando squad that is better than your Phoenix team.  Will that be replicated?

Doesn't this play right into SO's arguments? LeBron got no production off his bench, played like a man versus boys with a better starting unit than Chicago has and could still only win TWO games.

And I don't see where the 2009 starting Orlando team is that much better than this Phoenix squad is.

Howard = Howard
Lewis = Jamison
Hedo = Hedo
Lee = Matthews
Nelson/Alston = Davis

[Roy H.]

Phoenix, is it fair to say that the times he's lost in the playoffs, Lebron has had a significantly better (and physically stronger) player on him than John Salmons?  In the 2009 playoffs, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (neither of whom are on Lebron's level) had some big games when Salmons was helping defend them.  Won't Lebron have even more success?

No, it isn't fair. In 2009 when he lost to the Dwight Howard led Orlando Magic there was no "Pierce-type." Check out the statline of that 09 series, its next to impossible for him to reach the same to more success. Someone else has to help, and the Bulls don't have enough help.

To be clear, I was saying that Pierce was one of the guys who had good numbers against Salmons, not that a Pierce-like player needed to defend Lebron.

In '09, I think Pietrus matched up on Lebron a lot.  He's a better defender and physically stronger than Salmons, isn't he?

And again, Lebron James lost to Dwight Howard's Magic in 6 games when he averaged 38.5 points per game! I'm not setting the bar this low for my defensive squad, but he can't do it himself. ESPECIALLY against Dwight Howard.

In fairness to Lebron, he lost Game 1 by one point, because he got 5 points combined from his entire bench.

He lost Game 4 by one point because his bench was weak, and because Alston went off for 26 points.

Are those things you can count on happening against IP?  He lost two games by one point each to an Orlando squad that is better than your Phoenix team.  Will that be replicated?

Doesn't this play right into SO's arguments? LeBron got no production off his bench, played like a man versus boys with a better starting unit than Chicago has and could still only win TWO games.

And I don't see where the 2009 starting Orlando team is that much better than this Phoenix squad is.

Howard = Howard
Lewis = Jamison
Hedo = Hedo
Lee = Matthews
Nelson/Alston = Davis

2009 Lewis is significantly better than Jamison (as StartOrien acknowledges), and Hedo has declined.  Also, as mentioned above, Orlando had a better team defense, and better shooting to put around Howard.

And I'm not sure how it plays into StartOrien's hands.  Lebron got literally *zero* points from his bench in Game 1, and still only lost by one point.  IP's bench may be bad, but I think they can probably scrounge up two points.  If Lebron's teammates had given him just two points off the bench, that series would have gone back to Cleveland tied 3-3.  I would have liked Lebron's chances there.

[indeedproceed]

Question for nickagneta:

but otherwise, if you are using them (rookies) as rotational players on a team that you believe is contending now, I'm holding that against your team and writing in their contributions as non significant.

Are you expecting Dwight Howard and Antawn Jamison to play the entire game?