CB Draft '10 Playoffs First Round Eastern Conference

[Rondo2287]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period

Kidd = top ten pg of all time
Fisher = Nice role player

Hmmmm... guess Shaq should be a highly valued commodity right now then?

Shaq is a pretty highly valued commodity right now.  How many teams can defend shaq one on one.  Not many.  

Kidd's Stat Line last year is that of a dominant player in the league

10.3 pts, 5.6 rbs, 9.1 ass, 1.8 stls

There is more to this game than scoring.

[Roy H.]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period

Kidd = top ten pg of all time
Fisher = Nice role player

Hmmmm... guess Shaq should be a highly valued commodity right now then?

Shaq is a pretty highly valued commodity right now.  How many teams can defend shaq one on one.  Not many.  

Kidd's Stat Line last year is that of a dominant player in the league

10.3 pts, 5.6 rbs, 9.1 ass, 1.8 stls

There is more to this game than scoring.

Effective?  Absolutely.  Dominant?  No way.

[action781]

Kidd's Stat Line last year is that of a dominant player in the league

10.3 pts, 5.6 rbs, 9.1 ass, 1.8 stls

There is more to this game than scoring.

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period. While he may not be a great scorer he is a truly dominant player, which Fisher is not and has never been.

Truly dominant player?

Does ANYBODY in this thread think that Jason Kidd is a truly dominant player?  Does anybody in this thread even think that Jason Kidd is one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA right now?  [EDIT:  I'd bet half wouldn't even say top 10!!]

Again, I call your statement utterly false.

Kidd is one of the great PGs all time.

He's still an above average PG, Fisher is barely a rotation player at this point.

Completely agree, one of the great PGs of all time.  But that doesn't answer my question regarding 2010.  Is he even a top 10 pg in the NBA?

Why am I even bothering to discuss this???

Paul, D-Will, Rondo, Nash, Parker, Billups, Brooks, Rose, B-Diddy, Evans...

Wouldn't take Kidd over a single one of them.  Maybe B-Diddy cuz he's a jacker while more talented

Jason Kidd is not dominant.  Case Closed.

[Rondo2287]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period

Kidd = top ten pg of all time
Fisher = Nice role player

Hmmmm... guess Shaq should be a highly valued commodity right now then?

Shaq is a pretty highly valued commodity right now.  How many teams can defend shaq one on one.  Not many.  

Kidd's Stat Line last year is that of a dominant player in the league

10.3 pts, 5.6 rbs, 9.1 ass, 1.8 stls

There is more to this game than scoring.

Effective?  Absolutely.  Dominant?  No way.

I dunno, Roy, Celtics fans more than anybody should know how PG's can dominate the game without scoring.  Kidd will generate more rebounds than anybody else in the league at his position, is top 5 in the NBA in Assists and top 3 in the NBA in steals, and Top 5 in Assist to turnover ratio

[Rondo2287]

Kidd's Stat Line last year is that of a dominant player in the league

10.3 pts, 5.6 rbs, 9.1 ass, 1.8 stls

There is more to this game than scoring.

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period. While he may not be a great scorer he is a truly dominant player, which Fisher is not and has never been.

Truly dominant player?

Does ANYBODY in this thread think that Jason Kidd is a truly dominant player?  Does anybody in this thread even think that Jason Kidd is one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA right now?  [EDIT:  I'd bet half wouldn't even say top 10!!]

Again, I call your statement utterly false.

Kidd is one of the great PGs all time.

He's still an above average PG, Fisher is barely a rotation player at this point.

Completely agree, one of the great PGs of all time.  But that doesn't answer my question regarding 2010.  Is he even a top 10 pg in the NBA?

Why am I even bothering to discuss this???

Paul, D-Will, Rondo, Nash, Parker, Billups, Brooks, Rose, B-Diddy, Evans...

Wouldn't take Kidd over a single one of them.  Maybe B-Diddy cuz he's a jacker while more talented

Jason Kidd is not dominant.  Case Closed.

Your point guard ratings show that you dont value assists.  So does the make up of your starting 5 who combine averaged 2.5 assists more than my starting pg did last year. 

[Rondo2287]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

[action781]

But anyways, Jason Kidd is definitely one of the great all time PGs.  But by no means dominant in 2010.


What's much more relevant to our matchup is that one of the all time great SG's, who is actually still currently one of the greatest in the game at the moment, will be sporting a Pacers jersey this series.

I think everybody agrees, Kobe by himself can carry a team to 2 wins against this team.  Marc Gasol will have his games as well where he puts up 20+.  Derek Fisher, while denounced heavily on this thread, even put up 20+ twice in the 2010 playoffs.  Ty Thomas even put up 21 once in 4 games against Orlando in the 2010 playoffs.  Kyle Korver put up 23 in a playoff game in 2010.

While this team has Kobe and he can carry this team on his back some games (and will), he has players around him who can (and have recently in the playoffs) picked up the slack big time as role players on contending teams.

Kobe = 2 sure wins.
Role players stepping up = 1 or 2 wins.

I'm ready to argue this, bring it.

[action781]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

He can pass it all he wants!!  I want him to pass!  He will dump it down to Marc Gasol often and his 58% fg% and let him work.  Gasol will also be able to set up teammates for open looks.

p.s. Just curious as to how much all of you have seen Gasol play recently.  If you haven't, you shouldn't talk down on him too strongly or you won't look too smart.  The guy is already a pretty serious low post threat and still improving.  He can isolate, score efficiently, and has incredible court vision.

[indeedproceed]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period

Kidd = top ten pg of all time
Fisher = Nice role player

Hmmmm... guess Shaq should be a highly valued commodity right now then?

Shaq is a pretty highly valued commodity right now.  How many teams can defend shaq one on one.  Not many. 

Kidd's Stat Line last year is that of a dominant player in the league

10.3 pts, 5.6 rbs, 9.1 ass, 1.8 stls

There is more to this game than scoring.

Effective?  Absolutely.  Dominant?  No way.

I would agree with that. Kidd is effective.

Kidd is effective in the same way Ray Allen is effective. They're shells of the players they were in their prime, but that doesn't mean they're not still better than your average bear.

[Rondo2287]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

He can pass it all he wants!!  I want him to pass!  He will dump it down to Marc Gasol often and his 58% fg% and let him work.  Gasol will also be able to set up teammates for open looks.

I dont know what you are basing the Gasol setting his teamates up on.  He hasn't so far in his career.  I dont know why this will change now.

When i look at your team now compared to the current lakers i see Artest as a better passer than Pietrus, Pau being a better passer out of the post than Marc, Bynum and Thomas being a wash. Then I look at your team and i think other than Kobe is there anybody on the pacers thats a better passer than Odom?  and I dont think there is.  

I see alot of stagnant possessions resulting in Kobe jacking up a panic shot or passing the ball to a teamate only one of which has an offensive game.  

[indeedproceed]

I'm torn on that New York vs Washington series. I think it'll be a hotly contested seven game series that can go either way ... I can't separate the two sides.

So, I'm going to go with NYK because they have the best player in the series + I think they're the better defensive team + I'll give their coach the nod because of Rudy's T health.

Eastern Conference - First Round

• Chicago vs Seattle -- Bulls sweep ... Stuckey might steal a game
• Milwaukee vs Indy -- Bucks too strong for Indy. Competitive series but Milwaukee always has another gear. Bucks win 4-2.
• Orlando vs Atlanta -- Magic's bench leads them to victory, 4-1 Orlando
• Washington vs New York -- Knicks win in a nail biting seven game series due to Wade's heroics

While i gotta respect your opinions on most of that Who i really hope Rudy T's health didnt play much of a role.  Nobody knows how he is health wise and as i said before he can couch via skype from a hospital bed and still be effective for the purposes of this game

I disagree with that. Nobody knows how Reggie Miller is health-wise but nobody is trying to say he wants to play again.

[indeedproceed]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

During the regular season that's a valid point, but do you honestly think Kobe is going to literally throw a game away in the playoffs? Would he shoot his team out of one by trying to do too much? Sure. He might even lay off on the defensive side out of frustration. But he won't just pass to make a point.

[Rondo2287]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

During the regular season that's a valid point, but do you honestly think Kobe is going to literally throw a game away in the playoffs? Would he shoot his team out of one? Sure. But never throw one away.

Ya i talked about that in my post below

[Roy H.]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

During the regular season that's a valid point, but do you honestly think Kobe is going to literally throw a game away in the playoffs? Would he shoot his team out of one by trying to do too much? Sure. He might even lay off on the defensive side out of frustration. But he won't just pass to make a point.

Would a Game 7 count as the playoffs?

http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/chris.baldwin/2006/05/11/kobe_bryant_s_game_7_no_shot_pout_the_mo

[action781]

I just see the starting lineup your putting out there to be the recipe for a Kobe Blowup.  He is surrounded by offensively deficient players at 3 out of 4 positions and none of those players can move the ball.   I think i see alot of games where kobe refuses to shoot and just passes to make a point.

He can pass it all he wants!!  I want him to pass!  He will dump it down to Marc Gasol often and his 58% fg% and let him work.  Gasol will also be able to set up teammates for open looks.

I dont know what you are basing the Gasol setting his teamates up on.  He hasn't so far in his career.  I dont know why this will change now.

When i look at your team now compared to the current lakers i see Artest as a better passer than Pietrus, Pau being a better passer out of the post than Marc, Bynum and Thomas being a wash. Then I look at your team and i think other than Kobe is there anybody on the pacers thats a better passer than Odom?  and I dont think there is.  

I see alot of stagnant possessions resulting in Kobe jacking up a panic shot or passing the ball to a teamate only one of which has an offensive game.  

I'm basing it upon WATCHING HIM.  You want statistical basis?  He does not get many touches in that packed Memphis offense.  Yet he still averages 2.4 assists per game.  Good for 3rd in the NBA among centers and I cannot stress enough, as a player who was the 4th option on that team.  He gets 2.4 assists per 9.4 fga.  He will be 2nd option here and have the ball in his hands a lot more often to make a lot more plays.  Watch him play.  He has incredible court vision.