CB Draft '10 Playoffs First Round Eastern Conference

[wdleehi]

For future reference: vince carter would be no where near kevin durant in our playof matchup. He shifts to solely a 2 rather than give up 3000 points. JJ/AK get the defensive assignment on durant, if that makes a difference at this point.

Where Vince would have a matchup advantage against both Redick and R.Butler ... but at least Butler would make him work for his points. Unlike Redick.

Redick outplayed Carter for the Magic against the Celtics.  He was even the better defender.

[Rondo2287]

I'm torn on that New York vs Washington series. I think it'll be a hotly contested seven game series that can go either way ... I can't separate the two sides.

So, I'm going to go with NYK because they have the best player in the series + I think they're the better defensive team + I'll give their coach the nod because of Rudy's T health.

Eastern Conference - First Round

• Chicago vs Seattle -- Bulls sweep ... Stuckey might steal a game
• Milwaukee vs Indy -- Bucks too strong for Indy. Competitive series but Milwaukee always has another gear. Bucks win 4-2.
• Orlando vs Atlanta -- Magic's bench leads them to victory, 4-1 Orlando
• Washington vs New York -- Knicks win in a nail biting seven game series due to Wade's heroics

While i gotta respect your opinions on most of that Who i really hope Rudy T's health didnt play much of a role.  Nobody knows how he is health wise and as i said before he can couch via skype from a hospital bed and still be effective for the purposes of this game

[Who]

For future reference: vince carter would be no where near kevin durant in our playof matchup. He shifts to solely a 2 rather than give up 3000 points. JJ/AK get the defensive assignment on durant, if that makes a difference at this point.

Where Vince would have a matchup advantage against both Redick and R.Butler ... but at least Butler would make him work for his points. Unlike Redick.

Redick outplayed Carter for the Magic against the Celtics.  He was even the better defender.

Vince Carter is no longer trapped inside the Magic's pick and roll heavy offense. He is free to go back to his isolation + post up orientated offensive play ... and in those situations, JJ Redick doesn't have a hope in hell of covering a big two guard like Vince Carter.

Rasual Butler can do a solid job defensively on Carter. He has the size and the defensive chops.

------------------------------------------

Redick is a solid defender against smaller two guards. Not big two guards like a Vince or a Stephen Jackson or a Kobe Bryant ... who possess post games and can out-muscle him in isolations.

[Kwhit10]

Last year Vince Carter verse Rasual Butler (both averaged ~30mpg)

VC: 13ppg, 4.5rpg, 4.5apg
RB: 9.5ppg, 3.5rpg, 2apg

Vince is not what he used to be and on a team with Terry, and JJ he won't get as many shots as he likes either.

[Who]

I'm torn on that New York vs Washington series. I think it'll be a hotly contested seven game series that can go either way ... I can't separate the two sides.

So, I'm going to go with NYK because they have the best player in the series + I think they're the better defensive team + I'll give their coach the nod because of Rudy's T health.

Eastern Conference - First Round

• Chicago vs Seattle -- Bulls sweep ... Stuckey might steal a game
• Milwaukee vs Indy -- Bucks too strong for Indy. Competitive series but Milwaukee always has another gear. Bucks win 4-2.
• Orlando vs Atlanta -- Magic's bench leads them to victory, 4-1 Orlando
• Washington vs New York -- Knicks win in a nail biting seven game series due to Wade's heroics

While i gotta respect your opinions on most of that Who i really hope Rudy T's health didnt play much of a role.  Nobody knows how he is health wise and as i said before he can couch via skype from a hospital bed and still be effective for the purposes of this game

Rudy T retired from coaching because his health wouldn't permit him to coach anymore.

He can't handle the stress of coaching. There is no way he makes it through a season.

[wdleehi]

For future reference: vince carter would be no where near kevin durant in our playof matchup. He shifts to solely a 2 rather than give up 3000 points. JJ/AK get the defensive assignment on durant, if that makes a difference at this point.

Where Vince would have a matchup advantage against both Redick and R.Butler ... but at least Butler would make him work for his points. Unlike Redick.

Redick outplayed Carter for the Magic against the Celtics.  He was even the better defender.

Vince Carter is no longer trapped inside the Magic's pick and roll heavy offense. He is free to go back to his isolation + post up orientated offensive play ... and in those situations, JJ Redick doesn't have a hope in hell of covering a big two guard like Vince Carter.

Rasual Butler can do a solid job defensively on Carter. He has the size and the defensive chops.

------------------------------------------

Redick is a solid defender against smaller two guards. Not big two guards like a Vince or a Stephen Jackson or a Kobe Bryant ... who possess post games and can out-muscle him in isolations.

or Carter is in decline.  And he likes to play small in big games.  

[action781]

That's not neccesarily true:

In 6 games Jason Kidd had 9 turnovers (1.5 to per game)
In 23 games Derek Fisher had 36 turnovers (1.56 to per game)

Kidd also shot .917 from the freethrow line where Fisher shot .821. Career wise they're .776 and .797 (in favor of Fisher)

Small sample size here for J-Kidd.  We should be consistent with what data sets we use here.  If we wanna consider Kidd only having 1.5 TO per game and 92% ft shooter ('10 playoffs), lets also consider him a 30% fg shooter ('10 playoffs) averaging 8ppg in 40 mpg.

I prefer, as a mathematician, to go with the more robust larger samples and I know it would be more beneficial for rondo to also.  The most recent stats are undoubtedly worth mentioning, but taking for what they are.  Recent, yet in a small dose.

[Rondo2287]

That's not neccesarily true:

In 6 games Jason Kidd had 9 turnovers (1.5 to per game)
In 23 games Derek Fisher had 36 turnovers (1.56 to per game)

Kidd also shot .917 from the freethrow line where Fisher shot .821. Career wise they're .776 and .797 (in favor of Fisher)

Small sample size here for J-Kidd.  We should be consistent with what data sets we use here.  If we wanna consider Kidd only having 1.5 TO per game and 92% ft shooter ('10 playoffs), lets also consider him a 30% fg shooter ('10 playoffs) averaging 8ppg in 40 mpg.

I prefer, as a mathematician, to go with the more robust larger samples and I know it would be more beneficial for rondo to also.  The most recent stats are undoubtedly worth mentioning, but taking for what they are.  Recent, yet in a small dose.

Kidd = top ten pg of all time
Fisher = Nice role player

[Who]

For future reference: vince carter would be no where near kevin durant in our playof matchup. He shifts to solely a 2 rather than give up 3000 points. JJ/AK get the defensive assignment on durant, if that makes a difference at this point.

Where Vince would have a matchup advantage against both Redick and R.Butler ... but at least Butler would make him work for his points. Unlike Redick.

Redick outplayed Carter for the Magic against the Celtics.  He was even the better defender.

Vince Carter is no longer trapped inside the Magic's pick and roll heavy offense. He is free to go back to his isolation + post up orientated offensive play ... and in those situations, JJ Redick doesn't have a hope in hell of covering a big two guard like Vince Carter.

Rasual Butler can do a solid job defensively on Carter. He has the size and the defensive chops.

------------------------------------------

Redick is a solid defender against smaller two guards. Not big two guards like a Vince or a Stephen Jackson or a Kobe Bryant ... who possess post games and can out-muscle him in isolations.

or Carter is in decline.  And he likes to play small in big games. 

Vince Carter was still very effective in those areas when SVG allowed him to go there.

That was the reason why Paul Pierce took the defensive assignment instead of Ray Allen. Pierce has the size to fight Carter in those areas.

JJ Redick does not.

---------------------------------------------

And yes, I agree, Vince Carter has declined a great deal ... but he still owns that matchup.

[Rondo2287]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period.  While he may not be a great scorer he is a truly dominant player, which Fisher is not and has never been.

[action781]

Why if Pietrus is this incredible defender and playoff force did he not start when Orlando went up against Excellent Small Forwards Types in Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson and Paul Pierce?

I always thought Pietrus was better too, but I don't know the answer to that question either.

Why did Barnes start, and get more minutes. ANyone remember when Pietrus was in the game against Pierce? I thought Pierce played a lot worse. Anecdotal, but it is like wondering why Cleveland never started Varejao ahead of O'Neal, despite Varejao clearly being the better option.

Well Barnes was hurt which i think explains part of it.  But that raises the question even further, why did a hurt barnes start over Pietrus if he would have been so effective at stopping slashing SF's

Why do Manu, JR Smith, Tony Parker ('10 playoffs), and Jason Terry come off the bench?  Because sometimes is makes chemistry better.  For my team, I think chemistry would be better with Pietrus starting.

Also you should be asking yourself then, why did Corey Maggette come off the bench for the non-playoff Warriors last season???

I think you're comparing apples to oranges if you wanna compare Pietrus as a bench player to being inferior to your Barnes as starting over him.  If you'd like to continue though, I can talk apples to oranges as well like how Pietrus was 6th man for the East Conf. Champion Orlando Magic while Maggette was the 6th man for 29-53 Warriors.

[Rondo2287]

Why if Pietrus is this incredible defender and playoff force did he not start when Orlando went up against Excellent Small Forwards Types in Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson and Paul Pierce?

I always thought Pietrus was better too, but I don't know the answer to that question either.

Why did Barnes start, and get more minutes. ANyone remember when Pietrus was in the game against Pierce? I thought Pierce played a lot worse. Anecdotal, but it is like wondering why Cleveland never started Varejao ahead of O'Neal, despite Varejao clearly being the better option.

Well Barnes was hurt which i think explains part of it.  But that raises the question even further, why did a hurt barnes start over Pietrus if he would have been so effective at stopping slashing SF's

Why do Manu, JR Smith, Tony Parker ('10 playoffs), and Jason Terry come off the bench?  Because sometimes is makes chemistry better.  For my team, I think chemistry would be better with Pietrus starting.

Also you should be asking yourself then, why did Corey Maggette come off the bench for the non-playoff Warriors last season???

I think you're comparing apples to oranges if you wanna compare Pietrus as a bench player to being inferior to your Barnes as starting over him.  If you'd like to continue though, I can talk apples to oranges as well like how Pietrus was 6th man for the East Conf. Champion Orlando Magic while Maggette was the 6th man for 29-53 Warriors.

All those players you mentioned were impact players off the bench because of their offensive games which Pietrus does not possess. 

[action781]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period

Kidd = top ten pg of all time
Fisher = Nice role player

Hmmmm... guess Shaq should be a highly valued commodity right now then?

[action781]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period. While he may not be a great scorer he is a truly dominant player, which Fisher is not and has never been.

Truly dominant player?

Does ANYBODY in this thread think that Jason Kidd is a truly dominant player?  Does anybody in this thread even think that Jason Kidd is one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA right now?  [EDIT:  I'd bet half wouldn't even say top 10!!]

Again, I call your statement utterly false.

[Fafnir]

And if we are talking playoffs Kidd has the second most playoff triple doubles in NBA history. And the Third Most triple doubles in NBA History Period. While he may not be a great scorer he is a truly dominant player, which Fisher is not and has never been.

Truly dominant player?

Does ANYBODY in this thread think that Jason Kidd is a truly dominant player?  Does anybody in this thread even think that Jason Kidd is one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA right now?  [EDIT:  I'd bet half wouldn't even say top 10!!]

Again, I call your statement utterly false.

Kidd is one of the great PGs all time.

He's still an above average PG, Fisher is barely a rotation player at this point.