CB Draft '10 Playoffs First Round Eastern Conference

[Rondo2287]

I also have a great deal of respect for indianna, but the idea that derek fisher is an advantage over Jason Kidd is nonsensical.  Not only is Jason Kidd a better Rebounder, Distributer, and Shooter... wait do i even need to say more or should i leave it at better rebounder, shooter and distributer.  

Furthermore, alot of stock is being put in the Ability of Pietrus who need i remind you couldn't start ahead of my backup SF.

And since when is going to the whole a bad thing on offense?  Maggette is one of the premiere slashers on the game who would get pietrus in foul trouble very early in the games and leave him to be a non-factor anyways.

When you say Jason Kidd is a better shooter, you, again, are referring to regular season.  

For his large sample size of 199 career playoff games, Derek Fisher has a 43% fg% and shoots 40% from 3.  Jason Kidd, on the other hand, has shot 40% fg% and 32% from 3 over his playoff career of 121 games.

It sounds like your claim that Jason Kidd is a better shooter in the playoffs than Derek Fisher is the most nonsensical claim I see.

I'll refrain from caps, but can we all please do our playoff research before making claims about Derek Fisher?  The guy is a baller in the playoffs!  It's why I drafted him!  It's part of why he has 5 rings!!

Jason Kidd career playoff stat line: 14.8 points, 7.4 rebounds, 8.8 assists

Derek Fisher career playoff stat line: 8.9 points, 2.4 rebounds, 2.6 assists.

While Kidd struggled shooting wise .304 in this years playoffs he also contributed in other fashions with 7 asists per game and 6.8 rebounds per game.

Fisher shot at a much higher percentage of .448 but only averaged 2.3 reboudns per contest and 2.5 assists to go with his 10 points per game.

Correct.  I'm not denying Kidd's all around talents.  I'm trying to praise Fisher's advantages over Kidd in this matchup:  more scoring at a higher fg, 3pt, and ft %'s and only 1/3 of the turnovers that Kidd will have.

I would hope he only has 1/3 the turnovers he isnt the primary ballhandler

[wdleehi]

My picks.

Bucks - Good talent depth.  Good playoff experience.  I expect them to move through this round

Again, respect for Milwaukee here.  But how can you credit them with good playoff experience when they are being compared with Derek Fisher, Kobe Bryant, Mickael Pietrus, and possibly Rasheed Wallace (who I haven't mentioned yet).  Thats a minimum of 10 rings to 1. 

Because it is Kobe, his coattail rider and a guy who's back is so done, he has retired.  


I have seen Kobe and Fisher without a top big man.  They were either the 8th seed or out of the playoffs.  Never got out of the 1st round.  Why should this be any different?

We have Marc Gasol, a rising big man in the league who is a 16-10 guy or more.  He's not Kwame Brown who was the Lakers' former big man.

He is also not his brother or Shaq in his prime.  He is not as good as Odom (who was on those laker teams). 

Hmmmm.  I'd disagree.  Talent-wise, you may have a case.  But if you were to build a team from scratch to win the playoffs and your first choice is:  you can take either Marc Gasol at center or Lamar Odom at PF, who do you choose?  My answer is Marc Gasol.  I'd think most of you answer the same, but maybe a few don't.

I trade the pick.  I don't want either as the cornerstone of my team.  


Odom has been to the playoffs, Gasol has not.  

[action781]

Maggette vs. Pietrus

Maggette is a very limited offensive player.  He wants to drive to the hole and puts up a lot of numbers on pretty bad teams.  He’s only really once played for a team that made a decent playoff run.  Pietrus, on the other hand, has been a key player for a deep playoff team for two consecutive years.  What was his role on that team?  Playing defense and hitting 3 pointers with the occasional slash to the hoop.  He has the size and speed to stay in front of Maggette and will frustrate him into a poor shot selection.  He will also get his 10 ppg like IP said in 28 mpg.  Korver will also get some playing time when Pietrus or Kobe go to the bench.  While we lose defense, we gain an even more accurate 3 point shooter.  So as every team loses something when they go to the bench, it’s important that we gain something too.  Indy will try to play him when Barnes plays to risk getting abused on defense.

I wrote this without internet access so you'll notice no real statistical analysis.

Corey Maggette will be forced to become a jumpshooter this series.  Like I said, Pietrus is strong and athletic enough to stay in front of Maggette, who just wants to drive to the hole and draw fouls.  Maggette is a career 32% 3pt shooter, while shooting below 30% for 2 consecutive years.

Maggette has ONCE played for a playoff team (4 seasons ago), where he started 2 out of 12 games and averaged 15 ppg in 24 minutes.  This guy is not a winner.  Why did zero contenders want him when GS was dying to give him away if he is a truly special piece for a contending playoff team?

Yes, Maggette is one of the premier slashers in the league.  But Pietrus is one of the premier perimeter defenders in the leauge.  We will force Maggette to be a jumpshooter which will keep Pietrus from getting in foul trouble.

Talk about starting games, you are relying on a guy who has started less than 33% of his career games and has never been a started a playoff game.

Absolutely correct.

Maggette has started 2 career playoff games with 291 career minutes.  Pietrus has started 0 with 1,108 career minutes.  I like his playoff experience over Maggette's.

[action781]

Dinner, be back later.  Good debating so far ya'll. 

I feel like I'm starting to hold my own against the clear favorite, no?  Extending the series to 7 at least?

[StartOrien]

I also have a great deal of respect for indianna, but the idea that derek fisher is an advantage over Jason Kidd is nonsensical.  Not only is Jason Kidd a better Rebounder, Distributer, and Shooter... wait do i even need to say more or should i leave it at better rebounder, shooter and distributer.  

Furthermore, alot of stock is being put in the Ability of Pietrus who need i remind you couldn't start ahead of my backup SF.

And since when is going to the whole a bad thing on offense?  Maggette is one of the premiere slashers on the game who would get pietrus in foul trouble very early in the games and leave him to be a non-factor anyways.

When you say Jason Kidd is a better shooter, you, again, are referring to regular season.  

For his large sample size of 199 career playoff games, Derek Fisher has a 43% fg% and shoots 40% from 3.  Jason Kidd, on the other hand, has shot 40% fg% and 32% from 3 over his playoff career of 121 games.

It sounds like your claim that Jason Kidd is a better shooter in the playoffs than Derek Fisher is the most nonsensical claim I see.

I'll refrain from caps, but can we all please do our playoff research before making claims about Derek Fisher?  The guy is a baller in the playoffs!  It's why I drafted him!  It's part of why he has 5 rings!!

Jason Kidd career playoff stat line: 14.8 points, 7.4 rebounds, 8.8 assists

Derek Fisher career playoff stat line: 8.9 points, 2.4 rebounds, 2.6 assists.

While Kidd struggled shooting wise .304 in this years playoffs he also contributed in other fashions with 7 asists per game and 6.8 rebounds per game.

Fisher shot at a much higher percentage of .448 but only averaged 2.3 reboudns per contest and 2.5 assists to go with his 10 points per game.

Correct.  I'm not denying Kidd's all around talents.  I'm trying to praise Fisher's advantages over Kidd in this matchup:  more scoring at a higher fg, 3pt, and ft %'s and only 1/3 of the turnovers that Kidd will have.

That's not neccesarily true:

In 6 games Jason Kidd had 9 turnovers (1.5 to per game)
In 23 games Derek Fisher had 36 turnovers (1.56 to per game)

Kidd also shot .917 from the freethrow line where Fisher shot .821. Career wise they're .776 and .797 (in favor of Fisher)

[Rondo2287]

Dinner, be back later.  Good debating so far ya'll. 

I feel like I'm starting to hold my own against the clear favorite, no?  Extending the series to 7 at least?

I dont think so, doesnt seem like many people agree with you.  I think the general consensus is that other than Kobe and Gasol you dont have enough pieces

[nickagneta]

I voted...

Chicago
Milwaukee
Orlando
Washington

Ditto.

TP for the vote misha

[Rondo2287]

Maggette vs. Pietrus

Maggette is a very limited offensive player.  He wants to drive to the hole and puts up a lot of numbers on pretty bad teams.  He’s only really once played for a team that made a decent playoff run.  Pietrus, on the other hand, has been a key player for a deep playoff team for two consecutive years.  What was his role on that team?  Playing defense and hitting 3 pointers with the occasional slash to the hoop.  He has the size and speed to stay in front of Maggette and will frustrate him into a poor shot selection.  He will also get his 10 ppg like IP said in 28 mpg.  Korver will also get some playing time when Pietrus or Kobe go to the bench.  While we lose defense, we gain an even more accurate 3 point shooter.  So as every team loses something when they go to the bench, it’s important that we gain something too.  Indy will try to play him when Barnes plays to risk getting abused on defense.

I wrote this without internet access so you'll notice no real statistical analysis.

Corey Maggette will be forced to become a jumpshooter this series.  Like I said, Pietrus is strong and athletic enough to stay in front of Maggette, who just wants to drive to the hole and draw fouls.  Maggette is a career 32% 3pt shooter, while shooting below 30% for 2 consecutive years.

Maggette has ONCE played for a playoff team (4 seasons ago), where he started 2 out of 12 games and averaged 15 ppg in 24 minutes.  This guy is not a winner.  Why did zero contenders want him when GS was dying to give him away if he is a truly special piece for a contending playoff team?

Yes, Maggette is one of the premier slashers in the league.  But Pietrus is one of the premier perimeter defenders in the leauge.  We will force Maggette to be a jumpshooter which will keep Pietrus from getting in foul trouble.

Talk about starting games, you are relying on a guy who has started less than 33% of his career games and has never been a started a playoff game.

Absolutely correct.

Maggette has started 2 career playoff games with 291 career minutes.  Pietrus has started 0 with 1,108 career minutes.  I like his playoff experience over Maggette's.

There is a difference between having experience and being good.  And again, the guy that started over Pietrus in all 14 playoff games this season is coming off my bench.  Why if Pietrus is this incredible defender and playoff force did he not start when Orlando went up against Excellent Small Forwards Types in Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson and Paul Pierce?

[ChampKind]

For future reference: vince carter would be no where near kevin durant in our playof matchup. He shifts to solely a 2 rather than give up 3000 points. JJ/AK get the defensive assignment on durant, if that makes a difference at this point.

[indeedproceed]

Why if Pietrus is this incredible defender and playoff force did he not start when Orlando went up against Excellent Small Forwards Types in Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson and Paul Pierce?

I always thought Pietrus was better too, but I don't know the answer to that question either.

Why did Barnes start, and get more minutes. ANyone remember when Pietrus was in the game against Pierce? I thought Pierce played a lot worse. Anecdotal, but it is like wondering why Cleveland never started Varejao ahead of O'Neal, despite Varejao clearly being the better option.

[Who]

For future reference: vince carter would be no where near kevin durant in our playof matchup. He shifts to solely a 2 rather than give up 3000 points. JJ/AK get the defensive assignment on durant, if that makes a difference at this point.

Where Vince would have a matchup advantage against both Redick and R.Butler ... but at least Butler would make him work for his points. Unlike Redick.

[Who]

Why if Pietrus is this incredible defender and playoff force did he not start when Orlando went up against Excellent Small Forwards Types in Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson and Paul Pierce?

I always thought Pietrus was better too, but I don't know the answer to that question either.

Why did Barnes start, and get more minutes. ANyone remember when Pietrus was in the game against Pierce? I thought Pierce played a lot worse. Anecdotal, but it is like wondering why Cleveland never started Varejao ahead of O'Neal, despite Varejao clearly being the better option.

SVG doesn't like Pietrus in the starting unit because he breaks plays. The ball doesn't move as well.

[Rondo2287]

Why if Pietrus is this incredible defender and playoff force did he not start when Orlando went up against Excellent Small Forwards Types in Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson and Paul Pierce?

I always thought Pietrus was better too, but I don't know the answer to that question either.

Why did Barnes start, and get more minutes. ANyone remember when Pietrus was in the game against Pierce? I thought Pierce played a lot worse. Anecdotal, but it is like wondering why Cleveland never started Varejao ahead of O'Neal, despite Varejao clearly being the better option.

Well Barnes was hurt which i think explains part of it.  But that raises the question even further, why did a hurt barnes start over Pietrus if he would have been so effective at stopping slashing SF's

[ChampKind]

I would love to quote Who's post about vince carter at the 2...but cannot via mobile. But I like the way that man thinks.

[Who]

I'm torn on that New York vs Washington series. I think it'll be a hotly contested seven game series that can go either way ... I can't separate the two sides.

So, I'm going to go with NYK because they have the best player in the series + I think they're the better defensive team + I'll give their coach the nod because of Rudy's T health.

Eastern Conference - First Round

• Chicago vs Seattle -- Bulls sweep ... Stuckey might steal a game
• Milwaukee vs Indy -- Bucks too strong for Indy. Competitive series but Milwaukee always has another gear. Bucks win 4-2.
• Orlando vs Atlanta -- Magic's bench leads them to victory, 4-1 Orlando
• Washington vs New York -- Knicks win in a nail biting seven game series due to Wade's heroics