Author Topic: Delonte West spotted in Boston, to sign non-guaranteed deal (update on pg 7)  (Read 31526 times)

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Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2010, 07:09:35 AM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Couple of things I don't understand.



If the Celtics can improve a position off the bench for a vet min (since that is all they have to offer), they should do it. 


West is better then Daniels and Von Wafer.  If they have to waive someone, waive Von Wafer.


Yes, the Celtics need a better backup for Pierce.  But his backup right now is also the backup for Ray. 


Signing West does not take away the ability to sign or trade for another SF.  It just means that someone else will have to be removed.  It will not be the 1st round pick with a 3 year rookie deal (unless it is a big trade for a true 6th man type SF that would be a starter on many teams)
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Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2010, 11:52:41 PM »

Offline gar

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If he is still being considered, he is way better then Lafayette as a backup PG in case Bradley needs time to develop. With him at PG I am OK with Wafer and Daniels since he is a good rebounder and can defend multiple positions. Daniels is undersized at SF; but with height at the other two positions might be OK. He could also play with Nate allowing Nate to play SG. So the more I think about it the more sense it makes from a BBall perspective. Still not sure from a locker room or image perspective if Wic would go along with it.

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2010, 01:08:43 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Couple of things I don't understand.



If the Celtics can improve a position off the bench for a vet min (since that is all they have to offer), they should do it. 


West is better then Daniels and Von Wafer.  If they have to waive someone, waive Von Wafer.


Yes, the Celtics need a better backup for Pierce.  But his backup right now is also the backup for Ray. 


Signing West does not take away the ability to sign or trade for another SF.  It just means that someone else will have to be removed.  It will not be the 1st round pick with a 3 year rookie deal (unless it is a big trade for a true 6th man type SF that would be a starter on many teams)
You are wrong...you absolutely do understand!  ;) Good points all.  TP

I agree on everything except waiving Von Wafer. I think LaFeyette is the odd man out, i hated him in the pre-season, HORRIBLE decision making.

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2010, 05:59:09 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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Couple of things I don't understand.



If the Celtics can improve a position off the bench for a vet min (since that is all they have to offer), they should do it. 


West is better then Daniels and Von Wafer.  If they have to waive someone, waive Von Wafer.


Yes, the Celtics need a better backup for Pierce.  But his backup right now is also the backup for Ray. 


Signing West does not take away the ability to sign or trade for another SF.  It just means that someone else will have to be removed.  It will not be the 1st round pick with a 3 year rookie deal (unless it is a big trade for a true 6th man type SF that would be a starter on many teams)
You are wrong...you absolutely do understand!  ;) Good points all.  TP

I agree on everything except waiving Von Wafer. I think LaFeyette is the odd man out, i hated him in the pre-season, HORRIBLE decision making.

The 14 players the C's currently have on the roster does not include Lafayette (or Gaffney), as neither has a guaranteed deal.  It does include Semih. 

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2010, 07:07:01 AM »

Offline toinewalka

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2010, 07:29:45 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

It ain't that complicated.

First of all, we *do* have a defensive-minded backup 3 on the roster, Quis.  He'll probably get hurt, but he's not hurt yet.  But yeah, ideally we'd pick up a good 3...  but who's out there?  Trenton Hassell?  Bobby Simmons?  Count me as "meh" on the pickings at this point...  I don't see any bigger wings available today that would be locks (or even have a better-than-even chance) of cracking the playoff rotation.  So, you could sign a mediocre 3, just to have another 3, but if they aren't good enough to play.......  what's the point?

Second...  how convinced are you that Von Wafer's the answer behind Ray Allen?  Von had one very solid year in Houston....  then flamed out in Greece.  Came back last season on a couple 10-day contracts....  and didn't get on the court.  So highly thought of around the league that all he could command was $150k in guaranteed salary.  Wafer's anything but a sure thing.

Delonte >>>>>>>>>>>>> Von Wafer.

Third...  how convinced are you that Nate Robinson stays out of Doc's doghouse all season?  We don't have another PG on the roster.  Nate did great in the playoffs, but was racking up DNP-CD's for a while because of bad effort on the defensive end.

Delonte >>>>> NateRob.

Fourth...  you can't count on Avery Bradley to give us anything.  Ideally, AB fills Delonte's role as combo-guard off the bench, but not counting on a rookie when trying to make a deep playoff run.

Fifth...  name me a better free agent - any position - that's still on the market and likely to sign at the vet min (all we have to offer).  Go ahead.  I'll wait.

If Delonte comes in, takes his meds, plays as we've seen him play (in Boston and in Cleveland), he makes us a better team because he's a better player that either Wafer or NateRob.  If Delonte comes in and DOESN'T take his meds, if he acts up, if he's distruptive to the team...  we're talking about a vet-min player.  They can cut him, they can send him to treatment, whatever...  we're not talking any real commitment.

And, if I'm unduly pessimistic about Nate and Von, if they fill their roles as well as can be expected, Delonte's potentially another trade chip (maybe for that bigger wing we all would love to get; this ain't the playoff roster yet).

So....  tell me again what the downside of signing Delonte is?  Tell me what you'd rather do with the last roster spot?

EDIT: Oh, and I'll take my chances with Delonte against Kobe or Wade.  He's not obviously a stopper, but he's a very solid defensive player - better than average, better than you're going to find on the market still. 

Very good defensive player, proven that he can play well when the games count, can handle the ball, can get the team into its offense, can hit the jumper....  I mean, really, if you can get THAT player for the vet min, you'd be more insane than Delonte to not do it.  Dude could be sixth-man of the year.

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2010, 07:37:46 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.


Couldn't agree more. Makes absolutely zero sense. Another undersized shooting guard who can't shoot, cant dribble, cant pass, and can play mediocre defense. Yet, we need him to defend the three spot which he cant do. Add another undersized swingman to the list playing out of position. Danny has made great moves this off season. If he signs Delonte, it should go down as his worst move ever.

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2010, 07:40:06 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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delonte was pretty much the 2nd best player on the Cavs.  I always liked him in Boston.  If he can keep his stuff together he'd be a great addition.  Von Wafer and Nate Robinson are garbage.

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2010, 07:40:39 AM »

Offline Bahku

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Yeah ... I don't go along with this as far as needs are concerned, either ... we need a Small Forward back-up ... period.
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Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2010, 07:41:42 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.


Couldn't agree more. Makes absolutely zero sense. Another undersized shooting guard who can't shoot, cant dribble, cant pass, and can play mediocre defense. Yet, we need him to defend the three spot which he cant do. Add another undersized swingman to the list playing out of position. Danny has made great moves this off season. If he signs Delonte, it should go down as his worst move ever.

Name the small forward you want, and how you propose getting him.  Let's stop with the generics "we want a small forward!"  OF COURSE WE'D LOVE A GOOD SMALL FORWARD - but who and how?

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2010, 07:45:22 AM »

Offline incoherent

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I would try to defend West but it's pointless. Too many posters here never saw him play in Green. If he has improved at all since his last season with us then it's very possible he's the 1st or 2nd(to Jermaine) best player we signed this off season. Wafer and Robinson cannot match Delontes game on either end of the floor.

It might be redudant but if we sign him it won't be Delonte who's redudant it will be Nate and wafer who are redudant. 

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2010, 08:06:04 AM »

Offline Bahku

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.


Couldn't agree more. Makes absolutely zero sense. Another undersized shooting guard who can't shoot, cant dribble, cant pass, and can play mediocre defense. Yet, we need him to defend the three spot which he cant do. Add another undersized swingman to the list playing out of position. Danny has made great moves this off season. If he signs Delonte, it should go down as his worst move ever.

Name the small forward you want, and how you propose getting him.  Let's stop with the generics "we want a small forward!"  OF COURSE WE'D LOVE A GOOD SMALL FORWARD - but who and how?

Not sure who's still available, but just a few ideas: Jawad Williams, (very underrated, IMO), Rodney Carney, Bobby Simmons, Jarvis Hayes, Bostjan Nachbar, Sasha Pavlovic, Bobby Jones ... and what's the status of Marcus Landry? ;)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:11:58 AM by Bahku »
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Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2010, 08:18:22 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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I would try to defend West but it's pointless. Too many posters here never saw him play in Green....

I think there's a lot of people who saw Delonte being asked to do  too much, and who use him as a scapegoat for that terrible, terrible '06 - '07 team.

Delonte West doesn't do anything exceptionally well, but he's average-to-very good at pretty much everything.  

Not the world's greatest ballhandler, but he's no Tony Allen or Eddie House.  

Not a natural point guard, but he's made himself into more of a 1 than Nate Robinson.  

Not an elite shooter, but 37% from deep over his career (not sure why he tailed off last year.... )

Not a shut-down defender, but always gives full effort.  Better than average on this front, and occasionally spectacular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dthKAiQDt4

He'd be taking minutes over Von Wafer.  What does Von Wafer do well?  Shoot the ball.  But what's his career 3-pt percentage?





33.7%

Now, in '08 - '09, he hit 39%.  Of course, in '08 - '09, Delonte hit 40% (on slightly more attempts).  To be fair, he *did* tail off last year, but for his career he's been a better shooter (and I'd wager, though I can't prove it, a less-streaky shooter).

I guess I don't understand why people think Von Wafer is The Answer behind Ray Allen.  How much did we all complain that we needed to make [dang] sure that Ray Allen had a good backup, to keep his legs fresh for the playoffs?

We're talking about bring aboard a guy who I frankly feel would be a [dang]-close-to-ideal backup (ignoring the off-court stuff for now) for Ray Allen, a guy that's been one of the four or five best players (sometimes the second-best player) on one of the League's elite teams.  We're talking about a shooting guard who can shoot and handle the ball, who can defend.  We're talking about a guy that's been a starter on some great teams, but also been effective coming off the bench.  We're talking about a guy that's still fairly young (gotta have SOME fresh legs come June).  

Not sure what's not to like, especially given the dearth of alternatives at the 3.  

Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2010, 08:20:38 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

It ain't that complicated.

First of all, we *do* have a defensive-minded backup 3 on the roster, Quis.  He'll probably get hurt, but he's not hurt yet.  But yeah, ideally we'd pick up a good 3...  but who's out there?  Trenton Hassell?  Bobby Simmons?  Count me as "meh" on the pickings at this point...  I don't see any bigger wings available today that would be locks (or even have a better-than-even chance) of cracking the playoff rotation.  So, you could sign a mediocre 3, just to have another 3, but if they aren't good enough to play.......  what's the point?

Second...  how convinced are you that Von Wafer's the answer behind Ray Allen?  Von had one very solid year in Houston....  then flamed out in Greece.  Came back last season on a couple 10-day contracts....  and didn't get on the court.  So highly thought of around the league that all he could command was $150k in guaranteed salary.  Wafer's anything but a sure thing.

Delonte >>>>>>>>>>>>> Von Wafer.

Third...  how convinced are you that Nate Robinson stays out of Doc's doghouse all season?  We don't have another PG on the roster.  Nate did great in the playoffs, but was racking up DNP-CD's for a while because of bad effort on the defensive end.

Delonte >>>>> NateRob.

Fourth...  you can't count on Avery Bradley to give us anything.  Ideally, AB fills Delonte's role as combo-guard off the bench, but not counting on a rookie when trying to make a deep playoff run.

Fifth...  name me a better free agent - any position - that's still on the market and likely to sign at the vet min (all we have to offer).  Go ahead.  I'll wait.

If Delonte comes in, takes his meds, plays as we've seen him play (in Boston and in Cleveland), he makes us a better team because he's a better player that either Wafer or NateRob.  If Delonte comes in and DOESN'T take his meds, if he acts up, if he's distruptive to the team...  we're talking about a vet-min player.  They can cut him, they can send him to treatment, whatever...  we're not talking any real commitment.

And, if I'm unduly pessimistic about Nate and Von, if they fill their roles as well as can be expected, Delonte's potentially another trade chip (maybe for that bigger wing we all would love to get; this ain't the playoff roster yet).

So....  tell me again what the downside of signing Delonte is?  Tell me what you'd rather do with the last roster spot?

EDIT: Oh, and I'll take my chances with Delonte against Kobe or Wade.  He's not obviously a stopper, but he's a very solid defensive player - better than average, better than you're going to find on the market still. 

Very good defensive player, proven that he can play well when the games count, can handle the ball, can get the team into its offense, can hit the jumper....  I mean, really, if you can get THAT player for the vet min, you'd be more insane than Delonte to not do it.  Dude could be sixth-man of the year.

Good post. When delonte was a Celtic I had no real trouble with his play. He is not a star, but coming off the Celtic bench he will be fine as he is better than many bench players, and some starters in the NBA.

Only real point I would add to your list is that delonte is very smart ON ON ON ON the court, something Nate is rarely accused of...though I do like Nate delonte plays team basketball far better.
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Re: Delonte West spotted in Boston
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2010, 08:22:51 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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This move makes no sense to me if it is going through.  Someone explain why we would EVER do this.  We need a backup 3/2 or 3/4.  Someone that has the size to backup Pierce, and either score or play D on the Lebron's/Kobe's out there.  Instead, we continually bring in these small PG types, or specialty players that don't pan out.  We tried Eddie House and then shipped him out because he didn't fit anymore.  Why sign a guy that doesn't shoot as well, plays primarily the 1, and has mental health issues?  SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.


Couldn't agree more. Makes absolutely zero sense. Another undersized shooting guard who can't shoot, cant dribble, cant pass, and can play mediocre defense. Yet, we need him to defend the three spot which he cant do. Add another undersized swingman to the list playing out of position. Danny has made great moves this off season. If he signs Delonte, it should go down as his worst move ever.

Name the small forward you want, and how you propose getting him.  Let's stop with the generics "we want a small forward!"  OF COURSE WE'D LOVE A GOOD SMALL FORWARD - but who and how?

Not sure who's still available, but just a few ideas: Jawad Williams, (very underrated, IMO), Rodney Carney, Bobby Simmons, Jarvis Hayes, Bostjan Nachbar, Sasha Pavlovic, Bobby Jones ... and what's the status of Marcus Landry? ;)

....  I don't see any of those guys being more than a fringe rotation player.

The amount "better" those players are over Quis, to me looks a lot smaller than how much of an improvement Delonte would be over Wafer/Nate.  

We *know* there will still be a trade at some point this season anyway.  Could see BBD moved for a backuo wing, if JO and Shaq both work out (and Perk comes back healthy).  

Accumulate the best talent you can today, and pull the pieces together as the season progresses.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:39:05 AM by the_Bird »