Trade Ray Allen

[Jon]

Why would anyone want to trade one of the greatest jump-shooters, 3-point shooters, and free-throw shooters, to ever play the game?!? The guy is money-in-the-bank when you need someone to hit a game-winning tres or free-throw, and he is one of the easiest personalities to mix with a "team" concept, and one of the hardest-workers in the NBA.

He does what he does with the utmost class and style, while not bad-mouthing anyone or getting caught up with trash-talking and immaturity. Ray is one-of-a-kind, and a player that comes around once every ten years or so, (or more) ... he's pure gold and in almost every respect, a priceless addition to this team.

He is one of the core members and one of the main reasons of why this team is so successful right now. Get rid of Ray, and you take a big step toward breaking the back of any additional championship hopes. There are plenty of expendable players on this team, but Ray is not one of them ... no way!

I think I explained above the general rationale behind why Ray might have to be moved. Remember it was Ainge who said he would never make the mistake Red made of keeping the Big Three too long. Ray's peak of useful might just have come and might just being passing us by as we speak.

You see, I agree with just about every word you wrote, verbatim. But there is one very important word in one sentence you wrote might need to be changed:

The guy is money-in-the-bank when you need someone to hit a game-winning tres

IS. It might need to be changed to was and it might need to be changed real soon if not already. Ray's three point shooting is starting to approach Rasheed's career level. First thing to go on a shooting guard is the legs and the first thing to go because of the legs is the long distance shot.

I love Ray and hope he's just slumping and that a big 6-8 week hot streak is in the cards. But if not, Ray might never be MORE valuable to the long term success of this team than at this year's trading deadline when his being included in a trade could possibly mean championship contending for another 2-4 years. And if Danny could move Ray to obtain an asset or more to help extend the contending window 2-4 more years, it is his duty to do it, no matter how unpopular the trade.

Remember Bahku, and I think you've been around CB long enough to remember, polls before the KG trade was made were running heavily in favor of keeping Big Al and passing up on KG. At the exact time that trade happened, it wasn't exactly a clear cut, black and white, 100% in favor of loving the trade. I think a poll on the front page had it 60% or more against it, if memory serves. Trading Ray might not be the popular thing to do but it could just be in the team's best interest, in the long term.

And believe me, I agree with everything you have to say about the guy. I love him but, I might have to let him go if it means championship in 2011-2013. Though hopefully not at the expense of a championship in 2010. Though I have to say if KG or Rondo goes down for the year, Ray's gone, IMHO.

The thing that disturbs me is that Danny is foolish enough to think that Red hung on to Bird, McHale, and Parish too long.  First, he had a segue plan that didn't involve trading them: unfortunately Len Bias and Reggie Lewis died.  Secondly, and more importantly, trading any or all of the Big Three does not guarantee any more value than letting them all retire here.  Yes, trading one or all of them could get us some nice young players, but so could letting them expire and getting free agents.  Since both post Big Three plans are crapshoots (and yes, all of them are), I'd rather just do the one that involves riding this thing out as long as possible.  People need to realize that we are EXTREMELY LUCKY right now and that likely any tweaking or rebuilding will only make the team worse than it is now. 

[KungPoweChicken]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

Ray Allen for four backups? What's the point?

[nickagneta]

IS. It might need to be changed to was and it might need to be changed real soon if not already.

he has been very clutch for this team since coming to boston.  he his hit a number of game winning shots, not to mention the countless number of free throws late in games. 

he is in great shape, remains healthy, and is similar to kevin faulk on the pats....old reliable!

Yup, agree 100%.

But he is slipping this year from longer distance this year with a career low 34.9% from three point land and according to nba.com's Hotspots he's shooting 92 for 236 on all shots longer than 15 feet. That's 38.9%. That's not Ray Allen great anymore and at 34 years old I think one has to expect that not to get better, long term.

As I said, hopefully this is a slump and he goes on a tear for a while and he starts putting his numbers back to their normal stratosphere. I really hope so as I think this might be Ray's finest year for penetrating and passing and defense in a Celtic uniform. But those are Rondo's best attributes and this team desperately needs Rondo doing those things and Ray hitting outside shots to spread the defense out and keep lanes open and defenses from collapsing.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed he starts to get hot. I'ld really like to see him finish the year here but won't rule out the possibility that his leaving could be in this team's best interests.

[wdleehi]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

Not  big fan of this idea.  I want at least one player coming back that would be considered a fringe star.




I still like the idea I had that brought back Butler and Hinrich.  I wonder if DC would be more interested in it now.  A good guy like Ray could help them if they were to dump Arenas. 

[nickagneta]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

Ray Allen for four backups? What's the point?

Battier is far from a backup. He is a Defensive Player of the Year candidate and possibly the best defensive wing in the game. Landry is a much, much better version of Davis. Outlaw, when healthy is an outstanding defensive sf/pf type that can also score and Blake is a real deal backup PG.

There probably would not be a better, more talented, deeper, better defensive team in the league since ...... I don't know, ever.

Rondo/Blake/Hudson
Battier/Daniels/House
Pierce/Outlaw
KG/Landry/Williams/Scal
Perk/Rasheed

Though in all honesty, I doubt Houston and Portland make such a trade.

[nickagneta]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

Not  big fan of this idea.  I want at least one player coming back that would be considered a fringe star.




I still like the idea I had that brought back Butler and Hinrich.  I wonder if DC would be more interested in it now.  A good guy like Ray could help them if they were to dump Arenas. 

Actually, ESPN Insider is saying that the Wiz might put all trades on hold pending the investigation and outcome of the Arenas situation. If Arenas comes out looking like he violated his contract, then the Wizards will probably void his contract and keep Butler and Jamison as veteran talent to entice a big name free agent to join the team as they will now have space for a max level free agent next year.

Without Arenas the Wizards have Jamison, Butler, Blatche, Nick Young, Javale McGee Domenic McGuire and DeShawn Stevenson and only about $34 million in salary if they renounce everyone else.

[KungPoweChicken]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

Ray Allen for four backups? What's the point?

Battier is far from a backup. He is a Defensive Player of the Year candidate and possibly the best defensive wing in the game. Landry is a much, much better version of Davis. Outlaw, when healthy is an outstanding defensive sf/pf type that can also score and Blake is a real deal backup PG.

There probably would not be a better, more talented, deeper, better defensive team in the league since ...... I don't know, ever.

Rondo/Blake/Hudson
Battier/Daniels/House
Pierce/Outlaw
KG/Landry/Williams/Scal
Perk/Rasheed

Though in all honesty, I doubt Houston and Portland make such a trade.

While I see your point, Shane Battier is already 31 years old. It's not like this is a move to win now and also help in the future. It's mostly a win now move. And if you want to just win now, why not just keep Ray?


Honestly, I like Landry's game, but I don't see him as a significant upgrade over Davis. Blake is a solid backup PG (maybe even one of the best backup PG's in the game), but I don't see the backup PG as a pressing need on this team. A combination of Battier and Outlaw on the wing is sort of intriguing, but, neither player, even when combined, is as talented on the offensive end as Ray Allen.

I would personally like to see, if Kevin Martin were to come available at the deadline, the Celtics package Ray for Martin and Nocioni. There have been some rumors going around, since Martin's been hurt, that the Kings might be looking to deal him. That's a deal I would like to see. You can pair Martin with Rondo for the future, and you don't hurt your chances of winning now. Nocioni, though not the greatest contract, would be a solid punch off the bench.

[Bahku]

Even when Ray's in a slump, if we're going to the foul-line at the end of a game, there is NO ONE I want at the line other than Ray Allen ... period. Even if he's in a slump, there is no one other than Ray that I want shooting a last-second three, (except maybe Paul). It doesn't matter to me what his stats are, or whether or not Sheed or Eddie or anyone else can shoot threes on a similar level .... Ray has done it when it mattered most, and I know that he has the incomparable ability to shoot the next three with as much confidence as ever before, even if he's missed ten-in-a-row. That's a very rare gift, and a priceless one ... Ray is just one huge bundle of positives, both his game and his personality, and there are very few trades that could involve him that I would ever be happy about ... if any. 

[nickagneta]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

Ray Allen for four backups? What's the point?

Battier is far from a backup. He is a Defensive Player of the Year candidate and possibly the best defensive wing in the game. Landry is a much, much better version of Davis. Outlaw, when healthy is an outstanding defensive sf/pf type that can also score and Blake is a real deal backup PG.

There probably would not be a better, more talented, deeper, better defensive team in the league since ...... I don't know, ever.

Rondo/Blake/Hudson
Battier/Daniels/House
Pierce/Outlaw
KG/Landry/Williams/Scal
Perk/Rasheed

Though in all honesty, I doubt Houston and Portland make such a trade.

While I see your point, Shane Battier is already 31 years old. It's not like this is a move to win now and also help in the future. It's mostly a win now move. And if you want to just win now, why not just keep Ray?


Honestly, I like Landry's game, but I don't see him as a significant upgrade over Davis. Blake is a solid backup PG (maybe even one of the best backup PG's in the game), but I don't see the backup PG as a pressing need on this team. A combination of Battier and Outlaw on the wing is sort of intriguing, but, neither player, even when combined, is as talented on the offensive end as Ray Allen.

I would personally like to see, if Kevin Martin were to come available at the deadline, the Celtics package Ray for Martin and Nocioni. There have been some rumors going around, since Martin's been hurt, that the Kings might be looking to deal him. That's a deal I would like to see. You can pair Martin with Rondo for the future, and you don't hurt your chances of winning now. Nocioni, though not the greatest contract, would be a solid punch off the bench.

I would do a Martin and Noccioni trade in a heartbeat but only if Martin passes a rigorous physical first. I want to know that he isn't brittle. With this season's injury, I think Martin just jumped into injury prone territory and guys like that have a way of finding time on the injury list. That's scary if we are giving up someone the quality of Ray who is there game in and game out. Even if he passes that physical, I'm still very very hesitant, but would probably do it.

[nickagneta]

Even when Ray's in a slump, if we're going to the foul-line at the end of a game, there is NO ONE I want at the line other than Ray Allen ... period. Even if he's in a slump, there is no one other than Ray that I want shooting a last-second three, (except maybe Paul). It doesn't matter to me what his stats are, or whether or not Sheed or Eddie or anyone else can shoot threes on a similar level .... Ray has done it when it mattered most, and I know that he has the incomparable ability to shoot the next three with as much confidence as ever before, even if he's missed ten-in-a-row. That's a very rare gift, and a priceless one ... Ray is just one huge bundle of positives, both his game and his personality, and there are very few trades that could involve him that I would ever be happy about ... if any. 

I fully understand the Ray love. Oh boy I do.

But what if it isn't a slump? What if he is just shooting at a much worse rate and always will from now on?

Hate stats all you want but they are the what people like Danny Ainge make a living making their decisions on. If he thinks Ray is starting to pick up speed on the downside of his career statistically, he could be gone. Heck, you could say it is his duty to trade Ray IF he can improve the team.

Pretty big if though. I really don't want to trade Ray, but I am not dead set against it for the right trade. But it has to BE the right trade.

[wiley]

Even when Ray's in a slump, if we're going to the foul-line at the end of a game, there is NO ONE I want at the line other than Ray Allen ... period. Even if he's in a slump, there is no one other than Ray that I want shooting a last-second three, (except maybe Paul). It doesn't matter to me what his stats are, or whether or not Sheed or Eddie or anyone else can shoot threes on a similar level .... Ray has done it when it mattered most, and I know that he has the incomparable ability to shoot the next three with as much confidence as ever before, even if he's missed ten-in-a-row. That's a very rare gift, and a priceless one ... Ray is just one huge bundle of positives, both his game and his personality, and there are very few trades that could involve him that I would ever be happy about ... if any. 

I fully understand the Ray love. Oh boy I do.

But what if it isn't a slump? What if he is just shooting at a much worse rate and always will from now on?

Hate stats all you want but they are the what people like Danny Ainge make a living making their decisions on. If he thinks Ray is starting to pick up speed on the downside of his career statistically, he could be gone. Heck, you could say it is his duty to trade Ray IF he can improve the team.

Pretty big if though. I really don't want to trade Ray, but I am not dead set against it for the right trade. But it has to BE the right trade.

Disagree a bit with KPC and Wdleehi, Nick.  I think your trade would be an earth-shattering coup for the Celtics' future.  I can't comment on what it would do this year as I'm in loving- Ray Allen-to-death mode.  I will say that I love defense, and the defense would be scary good.

You're right that Houston wouldn't go for it though.

[Chief]

I'm not sure if we are the best team "when healthy" in the NBA. We have major troubles guarding scoring guards. Orl, Miami, and ATL could give us a run for our money because of that. And I did not even mention Cleveland. They look very good right now. I think they're finally establishing some chemistry after all the off-season moves.

Having said that, if Danny can trade Ray for an upgrade, then he needs to do it.

[BballTim]

I'm not sure if we are the best team "when healthy" in the NBA. We have major troubles guarding scoring guards. Orl, Miami, and ATL could give us a run for our money because of that. And I did not even mention Cleveland. They look very good right now. I think they're finally establishing some chemistry after all the off-season moves.

  Are any teams clearly better than a healthy Celtics team? No team is so head and shoulders above everyone else that they're unbeatable. If we're healthy when the playoffs come around no team will have a better chance at the title than us.

[Chief]

I'm not sure if we are the best team "when healthy" in the NBA. We have major troubles guarding scoring guards. Orl, Miami, and ATL could give us a run for our money because of that. And I did not even mention Cleveland. They look very good right now. I think they're finally establishing some chemistry after all the off-season moves.

  Are any teams clearly better than a healthy Celtics team? No team is so head and shoulders above everyone else that they're unbeatable. If we're healthy when the playoffs come around no team will have a better chance at the title than us.

I think Ray kind of hurts us, but he is the best we have at that position. He makes $18 million a year, but does not play that caliber of basketball anymore. If Danny could upgrade him, I think it would definitely make us the clear favorites.

[scoop]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

It'd need to be a couple of top-5 picks just to bring them to the negotiations table. This trade is brutal for Houston and if it's Brand going to Portland it may be even worse for them. Amazing for Philly (even if Przybilla doesn't play another game till the end of his contract) and decent for Boston (assuming they can make additional trades afterwards) though.