Trade Ray Allen

[Who]

Iggy + Rondo in the same backcourt. That'll create some spacing difficulties. A top defensive team like Orlando or LA will take good advantage of that.

It would be pretty amazing on the other end of the court though.

[nickagneta]

Trade Ray and Scal's expiring contracts to the wizards who want to make moves for Jamison and Butler. Yes they are getting the short end of the deal here but they would be getting a lot of money off the books for next year to have a chance to land a Bosh etc... to pair up with Arenas and money for other pieces, hell if they played their cards right they might be able to get Ray to sign an extension at a lower rate. this trade works on all the trade checkers and it will also work throwing in other pieces as well like a Tony Aleen to sweeten the deal and it still is a successful trade.

Keep RAY!

From what I hear in regards to his expiring contract he wants to re-sign and his teammates want him back. Simply sign him to a much reduced salary next year. Reduce his minutes and start moving him toward an Eddie House-like role. Use his reduced salary to improve the team.

IMHO we have small championship window and it's closing fast. Don't bust up the KG, RR & PP group until the opportunity is gone.

Here's the problem with this philosophy, which, BTW I completely understand and think is very reasonable. If the goal is to reduce his salary and move him into Eddie's role, who replaces Ray in the starting role and how do you obtain that player?

First off, Ray's greatly reduced salary, isn't going to be down in Eddie House's territory even though he will be playing an Eddie House role. If we can get Ray for $8 million a year that's going to be low and a bargain. But is he is going to be taking Eddie's role at that price, that means the Celtics have over $17 million allocated to their top three bench players. And that doesn't even take into consideration Rondo's raise kicking in, the need to extend Perk, probably at Rondo money, or the fact we have no starting SG.

Then comes the problem as to how to replace Ray in the starting lineup. Obviously, as we have seen with JR Giddens, Gabe Pruitt, Glen Davis, Lester Hudson, and Bill Walker, finding starting NBA talent at the end of the first round or into the second round of the NBA Draft is extremely difficult to near impossible.

That leaves the MLE of about $5.5 million a year or a max, fully loaded MLE contract of about 5 years/$31 million to offer a SG free agent next year to come play for us. The only players that will attract, possibly, will be Anthony Morrow if the Warriors don't match, Josh Howard if the Mavs decide not to pick up his last year, Linas Kleiza if he returns from Europe and the Nuggets don't match, Rasual Butler to play out of position, Rudy Gay to play out of position if the Griz don't match and he can't get better offers(he will), Larry Hughes, Travis Outlaw to play SF and move Pierce to SG(bad idea), Ronnie Brewer if the Jazz don't match, Manu Ginobelli if he is desperate, and Randy Foye if his team doesn't match.

The possibilities, in other words, of getting a replacement that way that will satisfy the Celtics needs aren't good.

The last way we get a replacement for Ray as a starter without drafting one, trading Ray for one or signing one in free agency, is to trade Rasheed, Baby, Daniels, House, Walker, Hudson, Tony, and/or Giddens for one before the trading deadline. I don't see any team in the league stupid enough or financially desperate enough to do that. Not for that group of players.

So in a lot of ways, if Ray is going to fade over the next couple years, and I believe we are starting to see that this year,m to replace him with a good SG we probably are going to have to trade Ray to get that next starting SG for the Celtics.

[DinTN]

Trade Ray and Scal's expiring contracts to the wizards who want to make moves for Jamison and Butler. Yes they are getting the short end of the deal here but they would be getting a lot of money off the books for next year to have a chance to land a Bosh etc... to pair up with Arenas and money for other pieces, hell if they played their cards right they might be able to get Ray to sign an extension at a lower rate. this trade works on all the trade checkers and it will also work throwing in other pieces as well like a Tony Aleen to sweeten the deal and it still is a successful trade.

Keep RAY!

From what I hear in regards to his expiring contract he wants to re-sign and his teammates want him back. Simply sign him to a much reduced salary next year. Reduce his minutes and start moving him toward an Eddie House-like role. Use his reduced salary to improve the team.

IMHO we have small championship window and it's closing fast. Don't bust up the KG, RR & PP group until the opportunity is gone.

Here's the problem with this philosophy, which, BTW I completely understand and think is very reasonable. If the goal is to reduce his salary and move him into Eddie's role, who replaces Ray in the starting role and how do you obtain that player?

First off, Ray's greatly reduced salary, isn't going to be down in Eddie House's territory even though he will be playing an Eddie House role. If we can get Ray for $8 million a year that's going to be low and a bargain. But is he is going to be taking Eddie's role at that price, that means the Celtics have over $17 million allocated to their top three bench players. And that doesn't even take into consideration Rondo's raise kicking in, the need to extend Perk, probably at Rondo money, or the fact we have no starting SG.

Then comes the problem as to how to replace Ray in the starting lineup. Obviously, as we have seen with JR Giddens, Gabe Pruitt, Glen Davis, Lester Hudson, and Bill Walker, finding starting NBA talent at the end of the first round or into the second round of the NBA Draft is extremely difficult to near impossible.

That leaves the MLE of about $5.5 million a year or a max, fully loaded MLE contract of about 5 years/$31 million to offer a SG free agent next year to come play for us. The only players that will attract, possibly, will be Anthony Morrow if the Warriors don't match, Josh Howard if the Mavs decide not to pick up his last year, Linas Kleiza if he returns from Europe and the Nuggets don't match, Rasual Butler to play out of position, Rudy Gay to play out of position if the Griz don't match and he can't get better offers(he will), Larry Hughes, Travis Outlaw to play SF and move Pierce to SG(bad idea), Ronnie Brewer if the Jazz don't match, Manu Ginobelli if he is desperate, and Randy Foye if his team doesn't match.

The possibilities, in other words, of getting a replacement that way that will satisfy the Celtics needs aren't good.

The last way we get a replacement for Ray as a starter without drafting one, trading Ray for one or signing one in free agency, is to trade Rasheed, Baby, Daniels, House, Walker, Hudson, Tony, and/or Giddens for one before the trading deadline. I don't see any team in the league stupid enough or financially desperate enough to do that. Not for that group of players.

So in a lot of ways, if Ray is going to fade over the next couple years, and I believe we are starting to see that this year,m to replace him with a good SG we probably are going to have to trade Ray to get that next starting SG for the Celtics.

Excellent post. TP to you.

I'd like to work it out so we keep Ray, especially this year and while we are competing for a championship.

My thought on Ray is to let the year play out. In the off-season we see where we stand. Ideally we need to sign Ray low and work on PP (he can opt out). If we can make another championship run then we make more moves accordingly. If disaster happens and we find we can't compete (such as injuries), then adjust accordingly.

[Who]

Brand is clearly not the player he was before the injury and on the Celtics, he is at best, the 4th big man.

Agreed -- Brand is struggling to even be a mediocre player. A liability defensively + an inefficient scorer offensively. His rebounding has declined too. No high end talents, few mediocre talents, but decent at most things. A useful player but not an impact player.

Kendrick Perkins + Rasheed Wallace are both superior players than Brand at this point.

And who knows, Brand playing with KG might become an all-star level talent again.

KG would be the best thing to happen to Brand. He needs to play the center position defensively but also needs a long mobile defender who can block shots alongside him. Best possible defensive combination for Brand is KG. Offensively, Garnett can play with anyone and helps make any scorers life easier.

Garnett would bring out the best of Brand ... but the best of Brand doesn't amount to too much. A solid player but not a difference maker.

[moiso]

I don't think Brand is washed up yet.  I think he'd be a big contributer on the C's. 

[wdleehi]

There is one other scenario that everyone keeps forgetting about.


Some team hoping to keep their star there and happy offers a contract to Ray that is longer or worth more money then the Celtics want to offer. 


It can happen.  Cleveland desperate to keep Lebron takes a shot at another aging star to put next to him.


This is a concern that has to also go into the thoughts on trading Ray.  (but not the reason to make the trade.)

[LarBrd33]

Brand is clearly not the player he was before the injury and on the Celtics, he is at best, the 4th big man.

Agreed -- Brand is struggling to even be a mediocre player. A liability defensively + an inefficient scorer offensively. His rebounding has declined too. No high end talents, few mediocre talents, but decent at most things. A useful player but not an impact player.

Kendrick Perkins + Rasheed Wallace are both superior players than Brand at this point.

Maybe those two combined are slightly better than Brand by himself, but I think Brand at this point would be the 2nd best big man on the Celtics if KG is healthy.

[wdleehi]

Brand is clearly not the player he was before the injury and on the Celtics, he is at best, the 4th big man.

Agreed -- Brand is struggling to even be a mediocre player. A liability defensively + an inefficient scorer offensively. His rebounding has declined too. No high end talents, few mediocre talents, but decent at most things. A useful player but not an impact player.

Kendrick Perkins + Rasheed Wallace are both superior players than Brand at this point.

Maybe those two combined are slightly better than Brand by himself, but I think Brand at this point would be the 2nd best big man on the Celtics if KG is healthy.

Not anymore.  He should be the number one threat on Philly, but he is shooting under 50% as a low post player. 

Defensively, he is not as good as those two. 

[scoop]

Brand is possibly the worst contract in the league, right? Maybe Arenas, with this ongoing distraction, but I can't think of worse contracts.

I read that Morey asked Iggy+Dalembert for McGrady (and the 76ers obviously refused that trade). That trade for Ray Allen would make more sense for the Celtics. But as other poster have said, Rondo+Iguodala is a bad combo for the half-court offence. Maybe a 3 teams deal.  

[nickagneta]

Just came up with a trade Ray trade that's long and convoluted. What do you think:

Trade was successful at the ESPN trade machine though that doesn't mean it's a good one.

Boston sends out Ray Allen, Glen Davis, Bill Walker, JR Giddens

Boston receives in Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Philadelphia sends out Elton Brand, Samuel Dalambert

Philadelphia receives in Tracy McGrady, Joel Przybilla

Houston sends out Carl Landry, Shane Battier, Tracy McGrady

Houston receives Samuel Dalambert, Ray Allen, Glen Davis

Portland sends out Joel Przybilla, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Portland receives in Samuel Dalambert, Bill Walker, JR Giddens


It's probably thin on what Portland and Houston gets for what they give but a draft pick or two going each team's way might help that out.

[Gomesfan]

Trade Ray and Scal's expiring contracts to the wizards who want to make moves for Jamison and Butler. Yes they are getting the short end of the deal here but they would be getting a lot of money off the books for next year to have a chance to land a Bosh etc... to pair up with Arenas and money for other pieces, hell if they played their cards right they might be able to get Ray to sign an extension at a lower rate. this trade works on all the trade checkers and it will also work throwing in other pieces as well like a Tony Aleen to sweeten the deal and it still is a successful trade.

Keep RAY!

From what I hear in regards to his expiring contract he wants to re-sign and his teammates want him back. Simply sign him to a much reduced salary next year. Reduce his minutes and start moving him toward an Eddie House-like role. Use his reduced salary to improve the team.

IMHO we have small championship window and it's closing fast. Don't bust up the KG, RR & PP group until the opportunity is gone.

Here's the problem with this philosophy, which, BTW I completely understand and think is very reasonable. If the goal is to reduce his salary and move him into Eddie's role, who replaces Ray in the starting role and how do you obtain that player?

First off, Ray's greatly reduced salary, isn't going to be down in Eddie House's territory even though he will be playing an Eddie House role. If we can get Ray for $8 million a year that's going to be low and a bargain. But is he is going to be taking Eddie's role at that price, that means the Celtics have over $17 million allocated to their top three bench players. And that doesn't even take into consideration Rondo's raise kicking in, the need to extend Perk, probably at Rondo money, or the fact we have no starting SG.

Then comes the problem as to how to replace Ray in the starting lineup. Obviously, as we have seen with JR Giddens, Gabe Pruitt, Glen Davis, Lester Hudson, and Bill Walker, finding starting NBA talent at the end of the first round or into the second round of the NBA Draft is extremely difficult to near impossible.

That leaves the MLE of about $5.5 million a year or a max, fully loaded MLE contract of about 5 years/$31 million to offer a SG free agent next year to come play for us. The only players that will attract, possibly, will be Anthony Morrow if the Warriors don't match, Josh Howard if the Mavs decide not to pick up his last year, Linas Kleiza if he returns from Europe and the Nuggets don't match, Rasual Butler to play out of position, Rudy Gay to play out of position if the Griz don't match and he can't get better offers(he will), Larry Hughes, Travis Outlaw to play SF and move Pierce to SG(bad idea), Ronnie Brewer if the Jazz don't match, Manu Ginobelli if he is desperate, and Randy Foye if his team doesn't match.

The possibilities, in other words, of getting a replacement that way that will satisfy the Celtics needs aren't good.

The last way we get a replacement for Ray as a starter without drafting one, trading Ray for one or signing one in free agency, is to trade Rasheed, Baby, Daniels, House, Walker, Hudson, Tony, and/or Giddens for one before the trading deadline. I don't see any team in the league stupid enough or financially desperate enough to do that. Not for that group of players.

So in a lot of ways, if Ray is going to fade over the next couple years, and I believe we are starting to see that this year,m to replace him with a good SG we probably are going to have to trade Ray to get that next starting SG for the Celtics.

My thinking is that we could make this trade and get Caron and Jamison and get younger and still compete this year! We could even move Sheed in this trade to make room for Jamison if we had to and get another guy back, but thats besides the point. Back to the point if we where able to make this move we would get alittle young and we would get alot better and Jamison can spread the fllor and play inside. I was also think we could still sign Ray following the season at a discounted price if he could understand the situation and see how trading him to sign these two players was for the betterment of the team for the long run and that he was still gonna be included!!!!

[Bahku]

Why would anyone want to trade one of the greatest jump-shooters, 3-point shooters, and free-throw shooters, to ever play the game?!? The guy is money-in-the-bank when you need someone to hit a game-winning tres or free-throw, and he is one of the easiest personalities to mix with a "team" concept, and one of the hardest-workers in the NBA.

He does what he does with the utmost class and style, while not bad-mouthing anyone or getting caught up with trash-talking and immaturity. Ray is one-of-a-kind, and a player that comes around once every ten years or so, (or more) ... he's pure gold and in almost every respect, a priceless addition to this team.

He is one of the core members and one of the main reasons of why this team is so successful right now. Get rid of Ray, and you take a big step toward breaking the back of any additional championship hopes. There are plenty of expendable players on this team, but Ray is not one of them ... no way!

[nickagneta]

Why would anyone want to trade one of the greatest jump-shooters, 3-point shooters, and free-throw shooters, to ever play the game?!? The guy is money-in-the-bank when you need someone to hit a game-winning tres or free-throw, and he is one of the easiest personalities to mix with a "team" concept, and one of the hardest-workers in the NBA.

He does what he does with the utmost class and style, while not bad-mouthing anyone or getting caught up with trash-talking and immaturity. Ray is one-of-a-kind, and a player that comes around once every ten years or so, (or more) ... he's pure gold and in almost every respect, a priceless addition to this team.

He is one of the core members and one of the main reasons of why this team is so successful right now. Get rid of Ray, and you take a big step toward breaking the back of any additional championship hopes. There are plenty of expendable players on this team, but Ray is not one of them ... no way!

I think I explained above the general rationale behind why Ray might have to be moved. Remember it was Ainge who said he would never make the mistake Red made of keeping the Big Three too long. Ray's peak of useful might just have come and might just being passing us by as we speak.

You see, I agree with just about every word you wrote, verbatim. But there is one very important word in one sentence you wrote might need to be changed:

The guy is money-in-the-bank when you need someone to hit a game-winning tres

IS. It might need to be changed to was and it might need to be changed real soon if not already. Ray's three point shooting is starting to approach Rasheed's career level. First thing to go on a shooting guard is the legs and the first thing to go because of the legs is the long distance shot.

I love Ray and hope he's just slumping and that a big 6-8 week hot streak is in the cards. But if not, Ray might never be MORE valuable to the long term success of this team than at this year's trading deadline when his being included in a trade could possibly mean championship contending for another 2-4 years. And if Danny could move Ray to obtain an asset or more to help extend the contending window 2-4 more years, it is his duty to do it, no matter how unpopular the trade.

Remember Bahku, and I think you've been around CB long enough to remember, polls before the KG trade was made were running heavily in favor of keeping Big Al and passing up on KG. At the exact time that trade happened, it wasn't exactly a clear cut, black and white, 100% in favor of loving the trade. I think a poll on the front page had it 60% or more against it, if memory serves. Trading Ray might not be the popular thing to do but it could just be in the team's best interest, in the long term.

And believe me, I agree with everything you have to say about the guy. I love him but, I might have to let him go if it means championship in 2011-2013. Though hopefully not at the expense of a championship in 2010. Though I have to say if KG or Rondo goes down for the year, Ray's gone, IMHO.

[dark_lord]

Why would anyone want to trade one of the greatest jump-shooters, 3-point shooters, and free-throw shooters, to ever play the game?!? The guy is money-in-the-bank when you need someone to hit a game-winning tres or free-throw, and he is one of the easiest personalities to mix with a "team" concept, and one of the hardest-workers in the NBA.

He does what he does with the utmost class and style, while not bad-mouthing anyone or getting caught up with trash-talking and immaturity. Ray is one-of-a-kind, and a player that comes around once every ten years or so, (or more) ... he's pure gold and in almost every respect, a priceless addition to this team.

He is one of the core members and one of the main reasons of why this team is so successful right now. Get rid of Ray, and you take a big step toward breaking the back of any additional championship hopes. There are plenty of expendable players on this team, but Ray is not one of them ... no way!

couldnt agree more!  we should keep him and let his contract expire....then decide what is best for the team and make the next move.

[dark_lord]

IS. It might need to be changed to was and it might need to be changed real soon if not already.

he has been very clutch for this team since coming to boston.  he his hit a number of game winning shots, not to mention the countless number of free throws late in games. 

he is in great shape, remains healthy, and is similar to kevin faulk on the pats....old reliable!

Remember Bahku, and I think you've been around CB long enough to remember, polls before the KG trade was made were running heavily in favor of keeping Big Al and passing up on KG. At the exact time that trade happened, it wasn't exactly a clear cut, black and white, 100% in favor of loving the trade. I think a poll on the front page had it 60% or more against it, if memory serves. Trading Ray might not be the popular thing to do but it could just be in the team's best interest, in the long term.

a poll on cb means nothing....think of all the "play the rookies", "bring back so and so", "so and so is our next all star after watching preseason, summer league, dleague, scrub time, dunk contest, etc", and countless other bonehead (some would consider, but not calling anyone a bonehead) opinions throughout the forums.