Nocioni to Boston rumored by Marc Stein!

[ssspence]

it sounds like folks agree we'd be trading for noce for O, not D.

with that said, i would much rather have stackhouse on a one year deal right now then trade for 3 years of noce.

if it doesn't work out, cut stack and then go get noce. it's not like anyone else is silly enough to take on thet contract....

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

[nickagneta]

Maybe Sacramento would want Baby.  No way we shold trade scal when he will prolly sign for the vets min next year and is a great guy to have at the end of the bench.

TP, Fatjohn - you are exactly right.

Nocioni: 2 years / 13.5m
Scal:    2 years / 4m

Nocioni is better than Scal, but there is no way he is over 3x better than Scal.  Considering the minimal role Noc would have, he is only a minor upgrade over Brian.

Scal's deal expires this year.

which is why we'd have the option of re-signing him the vet min of around 4m over 2 years. 

do you really think Nocioni is worth an additional 10m over the same time?

Vet minimum contracts that Danny will use will never be of the two year variety. One year vet minimum contracts are subsidized by the league and two year contracts are not, so Danny would never sign Scal to a two year contract at the vet minimum when he can get the league to pay for part of Scal's contract if it is a one year deal.

Also, either way, Scal is free at the end of the year so the C's could trade for Nocioni if they want and STILL re-sign Scal to a vet minimum contract for a year. Would they be redundant, maybe, but we also don't know where Ray, Marquis, and Williams will end up.

any way you look at it, Noc will cost us roughly 3x as much as Scal.

is he 3x better? 

Yes, without a question. Nocioni for all his warts is still a 12 PPG, 5 RPG top 8 rotational player and Scal is still a 3 PPG, 1.5 RPG 10th or 11th end of the bench player. And the differences are in more than just the stats. Nocioni is a major upgrade over Scal.

[ssspence]

Maybe Sacramento would want Baby.  No way we shold trade scal when he will prolly sign for the vets min next year and is a great guy to have at the end of the bench.

TP, Fatjohn - you are exactly right.

Nocioni: 2 years / 13.5m
Scal:    2 years / 4m

Nocioni is better than Scal, but there is no way he is over 3x better than Scal.  Considering the minimal role Noc would have, he is only a minor upgrade over Brian.

Scal's deal expires this year.

which is why we'd have the option of re-signing him the vet min of around 4m over 2 years. 

do you really think Nocioni is worth an additional 10m over the same time?

Vet minimum contracts that Danny will use will never be of the two year variety. One year vet minimum contracts are subsidized by the league and two year contracts are not, so Danny would never sign Scal to a two year contract at the vet minimum when he can get the league to pay for part of Scal's contract if it is a one year deal.

Also, either way, Scal is free at the end of the year so the C's could trade for Nocioni if they want and STILL re-sign Scal to a vet minimum contract for a year. Would they be redundant, maybe, but we also don't know where Ray, Marquis, and Williams will end up.

any way you look at it, Noc will cost us roughly 3x as much as Scal.

is he 3x better? 

Yes, without a question. Nocioni for all his warts is still a 12 PPG, 5 RPG top 8 rotational player and Scal is still a 3 PPG, 1.5 RPG 10th or 11th end of the bench player. And the differences are in more than just the stats. Nocioni is a major upgrade over Scal.

ahem, one guys plays a lot on a bad team. the other rarely does on a good one. noce is a better player, but he's not better than daniels, sheed, eddie or baby. i'm not calling him worse, i'm just saying he's a limited player on the Cs.

[D Dub]

Maybe Sacramento would want Baby.  No way we shold trade scal when he will prolly sign for the vets min next year and is a great guy to have at the end of the bench.

TP, Fatjohn - you are exactly right.

Nocioni: 2 years / 13.5m
Scal:    2 years / 4m

Nocioni is better than Scal, but there is no way he is over 3x better than Scal.  Considering the minimal role Noc would have, he is only a minor upgrade over Brian.

Scal's deal expires this year.

which is why we'd have the option of re-signing him the vet min of around 4m over 2 years. 

do you really think Nocioni is worth an additional 10m over the same time?

Vet minimum contracts that Danny will use will never be of the two year variety. One year vet minimum contracts are subsidized by the league and two year contracts are not, so Danny would never sign Scal to a two year contract at the vet minimum when he can get the league to pay for part of Scal's contract if it is a one year deal.

Also, either way, Scal is free at the end of the year so the C's could trade for Nocioni if they want and STILL re-sign Scal to a vet minimum contract for a year. Would they be redundant, maybe, but we also don't know where Ray, Marquis, and Williams will end up.

any way you look at it, Noc will cost us roughly 3x as much as Scal.

is he 3x better? 

I don't think it matters.  The point is he's better.  Talent is worth more than money in sports.

Exactly why we should prioritize keeping Ray Allen, Marquis Daniels and Perk next year.  

Adding Nocioni's 13.5 over the next 2 years hinders that effort.  IMO, that's not worth a minor upgrade to the 9th guy off our bench.

I couldn't agree more with FatJohn's post:

Ive been reading the blog for a couple years and Brian Scalabrine is prolly the most underappreicated player in the history of Celticsblog. it never ceases to amaze me how little respect this guy gets. He never complains. goes in anytime he is needed and performs to the best of his ability. If that isnt ubuntu than what is? How quickly ppl forget his contribution last year in the Orlando series coming off what his 3rd concussion of the season. Do ppl really believe Nocioni is a better fit for this team than Scal?

[Lucky17]

You guys make it sounds like we'd lose Scal.

I have no doubt he'd negotiate a buyout, and return to the team.

In that case, it'd really be Tony Allen and Giddens for Nocioni. Is anyone really going to be broken up about that?

[dinguspie]

I'm wary of Nocioni.  Advanced stat guys don't like him much.  Witness Berri's take on Wages of Wins:

What about Andres Nocioni, Spencer Hawes, Beno Udrih, Desmond Mason, or Sean May?  These players were all below average last year.  And this year — as the following list illustrates – all are still below average.  In fact, Mason played so poorly that he went from the starting line-up to the unemployment line.

 Spencer Hawes [266 minutes, -0.063 WP48]

Desmond Mason [66 minutes, 0.023 WP48]

Sean May [82 minutes, -0.184 WP48]

Andres Nocioni [239 minutes, 0.016 WP48]

Beno Udrih [237 minutes, 0.069 WP48]

Keep in mind that an average player has a .100 WP48 in Berri's system.  So Nocioni is significantly below average.  Do we really want to pay a below average player 13.5 million over the next two seasons?  

I think we'd be better served simply letting our contracts expire than adding a sub-par, expensive, declining player like Nocioni.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/how-did-sacramento-improve/

[ssspence]

You guys make it sounds like we'd lose Scal.

I have no doubt he'd negotiate a buyout, and return to the team.

In that case, it'd really be Tony Allen and Giddens for Nocioni. Is anyone really going to be broken up about that?

i think it's more of an arguement why NOT to trade for Nocioni (making way too much money to shoot a few threes and shout alot)....

[bballdog384]

If we make this trade, we'll also have the roster space to add Stackhouse to a minimum contract.

[D Dub]

You guys make it sounds like we'd lose Scal.

I have no doubt he'd negotiate a buyout, and return to the team.

In that case, it'd really be Tony Allen and Giddens for Nocioni. Is anyone really going to be broken up about that?

i think it's more of an arguement why NOT to trade for Nocioni (making way too much money to shoot a few threes and shout alot)....

Yup, and committing 13.5 to Noc means we have to limit our offers to Ray, Quis and Perk this offseason.  

I don't think that's a risk worth taking if all we are talking about is a minor upgrade at the end of the bench.  Guys, even Daniels is MUCH better than Nocioni, if he walks because we committed his $ to Noc, we'll all lament this trade.

[Reyquila]

Why should Scal complain? What could he complain about; more playing time? He knows he is making easy money; if he had some degree of agility he would have probably avoided those concussions; he just cant move out of the way from trouble. He is smart; thats why he doesnt complain.

[Edgar]

Now I am certain Danny is one of you in disguise and finally listening to me...


Next time Danny its easier just to post on "Ask Edgar"


Saludos

e.r.

[wdleehi]

Maybe Sacramento would want Baby.  No way we shold trade scal when he will prolly sign for the vets min next year and is a great guy to have at the end of the bench.

TP, Fatjohn - you are exactly right.

Nocioni: 2 years / 13.5m
Scal:    2 years / 4m

Nocioni is better than Scal, but there is no way he is over 3x better than Scal.  Considering the minimal role Noc would have, he is only a minor upgrade over Brian.

Scal's deal expires this year.

which is why we'd have the option of re-signing him the vet min of around 4m over 2 years. 

do you really think Nocioni is worth an additional 10m over the same time?

Vet minimum contracts that Danny will use will never be of the two year variety. One year vet minimum contracts are subsidized by the league and two year contracts are not, so Danny would never sign Scal to a two year contract at the vet minimum when he can get the league to pay for part of Scal's contract if it is a one year deal.

Also, either way, Scal is free at the end of the year so the C's could trade for Nocioni if they want and STILL re-sign Scal to a vet minimum contract for a year. Would they be redundant, maybe, but we also don't know where Ray, Marquis, and Williams will end up.

any way you look at it, Noc will cost us roughly 3x as much as Scal.

is he 3x better? 

Yes, without a question. Nocioni for all his warts is still a 12 PPG, 5 RPG top 8 rotational player and Scal is still a 3 PPG, 1.5 RPG 10th or 11th end of the bench player. And the differences are in more than just the stats. Nocioni is a major upgrade over Scal.

If he would be coming to be a 25-30 minute player, yes, much better then Scali.

But he would be coming as the 9th or 10th man.  Playing more in the 5-15 minute range.  Then, not that much better the Scali.




As for Pierce's replacement in case of injury, well that would be Daniels. 

Rondo is the only one there is no replacement for. 

[P2]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

[hardlyyardley]

More concerned about saving $$$ for Marquis....no way he plays next year with a mere 20% raise

[hpantazo]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?