Nocioni to Boston rumored by Marc Stein!

[celts55]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2009/11/sources_celtics.html

According to this the Celtics are not interested.

[ssspence]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

I get it.. Now give me my TP.

i was referring to the other guy -- but sure why not!

[Lucky17]

I still say Jeff should sue the Globe for their use of the term "Celtics Blog." There can be only one.

[Tnerb02]

The only way we trade Scalabrine is if we get multiple unprotected first round picks in return.

[footey]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2009/11/sources_celtics.html

According to this the Celtics are not interested.

This Globe article is fraught with typos. Embarrassing.

[hpantazo]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

Didn't the Bobcats take on more salary each of the next two years and wasn't the Okafor deal just as much about new orleans dumping $1 million worth of salary this year to get closer to being under the luxury tax? The Bobcats got jackson in a player attitude dump. They were happy paying jackson as long as he was a happy camper, the problem was Jackson's attitude.

I take your point and agree that you can get great talent based solely on a salary dump. I do. I just hate to see you misrepresent facts to make a point. You had enough evidence already.

i'm sorry but you're missing the point -- i'm not representing anything about state of relations between player and team. who said anything about the players we get being happy where they were before.

was gasol happy? was salmons? was vince when he was dumped from toronto? they all complained about fit or happiness and got their wish. what did the team trading them take back? what did Golden State take back for Jackson? salary relief.

the state of the players attitude is besides the point. i'm talking about the mechanics of the trades themselves -- exiting problems via salary relief. how often do players who love their team, their coach and their city get traded? only one i can think of is wayne gretsky.

note the example i used of monta ellis. the bigger fish would be chris paul, which would likely take salary relief and rondo...

but the point remains the same. the Cs should hang on for better than Nocioni.

If you want to include Ray Allen then yes, you can. Otherwise, I don't see any players with a low enough contract that have any chance of getting dumbed for TA and Scal that would actually be useful to the current celtics team.

[ssspence]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

the only "blossoming" player in that list is Gasol, and it took a lot more salary than we have to "dump" along with a good young player, and was still a deal that should have been vetoed. You are talking about giving up trash (TA, Scal and Giddens) for a "blossoming young player" . Ain't going to happen. Maybe if you get it I'll give you a TP.

How old are Yi and Okefor? I don't follow your point about the value of expiring contracts unless you're going to cling to the semantics of "blossoming". These players are all either better than Nocioni or have far greater room to improve, period. They were given away for salary relief. I'll take Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter over Andres Nocioni. You?   

Meanwhile our "trash" = cap space in 2010. Check the list of guys available next summer. It's pretty good. I also recommend reading up on the cap -- Roy Hobbs has a great post on FAQs.

[ssspence]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

Didn't the Bobcats take on more salary each of the next two years and wasn't the Okafor deal just as much about new orleans dumping $1 million worth of salary this year to get closer to being under the luxury tax? The Bobcats got jackson in a player attitude dump. They were happy paying jackson as long as he was a happy camper, the problem was Jackson's attitude.

I take your point and agree that you can get great talent based solely on a salary dump. I do. I just hate to see you misrepresent facts to make a point. You had enough evidence already.

i'm sorry but you're missing the point -- i'm not representing anything about state of relations between player and team. who said anything about the players we get being happy where they were before.

was gasol happy? was salmons? was vince when he was dumped from toronto? they all complained about fit or happiness and got their wish. what did the team trading them take back? what did Golden State take back for Jackson? salary relief.

the state of the players attitude is besides the point. i'm talking about the mechanics of the trades themselves -- exiting problems via salary relief. how often do players who love their team, their coach and their city get traded? only one i can think of is wayne gretsky.

note the example i used of monta ellis. the bigger fish would be chris paul, which would likely take salary relief and rondo...

but the point remains the same. the Cs should hang on for better than Nocioni.

If you want to include Ray Allen then yes, you can. Otherwise, I don't see any players with a low enough contract that have any chance of getting dumbed for TA and Scal that would actually be useful to the current celtics team.

you want me to salary match every one of these deals? sheesh, i was just trying to make a point.

but i don't see where you wouldn't have to include Ray. The Cs have $11mil in expiring deals on the team, not including Marquis Daniels. I'm also not including Baby, who is a nice trade chip -- productive and cheap.

[hpantazo]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

the only "blossoming" player in that list is Gasol, and it took a lot more salary than we have to "dump" along with a good young player, and was still a deal that should have been vetoed. You are talking about giving up trash (TA, Scal and Giddens) for a "blossoming young player" . Ain't going to happen. Maybe if you get it I'll give you a TP.

How old are Yi and Okefor? I don't follow your point about the value of expiring contracts unless you're going to cling to the semantics of "blossoming". These players are all either better than Nocioni or have far greater room to improve, period. They were given away for salary relief. I'll take Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter over Andres Nocioni. You?   

Meanwhile our "trash" = cap space in 2010. Check the list of guys available next summer. It's pretty good. I also recommend reading up on the cap -- Roy Hobbs has a great post on FAQs.

I wouldn't call Yi and Okafor "blossoming", I would call them "busts". And as for the 2010 free agent class, which one of those great players do you think are going to sign with us for the small amount of cap space that TA and Scal's contracts add up to?

[ssspence]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

the only "blossoming" player in that list is Gasol, and it took a lot more salary than we have to "dump" along with a good young player, and was still a deal that should have been vetoed. You are talking about giving up trash (TA, Scal and Giddens) for a "blossoming young player" . Ain't going to happen. Maybe if you get it I'll give you a TP.

How old are Yi and Okefor? I don't follow your point about the value of expiring contracts unless you're going to cling to the semantics of "blossoming". These players are all either better than Nocioni or have far greater room to improve, period. They were given away for salary relief. I'll take Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter over Andres Nocioni. You?   

Meanwhile our "trash" = cap space in 2010. Check the list of guys available next summer. It's pretty good. I also recommend reading up on the cap -- Roy Hobbs has a great post on FAQs.

I wouldn't call Yi and Okafor "blossoming", I would call them "busts". And as for the 2010 free agent class, which one of those great players do you think are going to sign with us for the small amount of cap space that TA and Scal's contracts add up to?

Like I said, read up on the cap. The Celtics can't sign anyone with the space from TA and Scal's deals because don't have any space and won't. Other teams do or will and will continue to look to add more. So adding expiring contracts from the Cs may be desirable for them. Or maybe they just want long term relief from deals that they feel were a mistake for whatever reason -- production, fit, off the court stuff -- whatever. And as I pointed out previously the Cs have more than just TA and Scal in expiring deals.

I think we've finished here. TP for the effort.

[greenwise]

Apparently Nocioni is not playing tonight vs the Bulls

[ssspence]

Apparently Nocioni is not playing tonight vs the Bulls

haha. he's injured, no?

[nickagneta]

Okay, twice, ssspence, you included Okafor as a trade that was made because of a salary dump in Charlotte. But that's not right. Chandler has two years on his contract and both years are more expensive than that of Okafor's. I think that trade happened because both teams were unhappy with the performance of their centers and because New Orleans was looking to dump as much salary this year as possible even at the expense of taking on future years while maintaining the semblance of remaining competitive or even upgrading their talent.

Did Charlotte want to get out of longer term debt for enticing a future ownership change? Yes, but this trade was not a strict salary dump for expiring deals. And again, the Jackson trade was not a salary dump. The Jackson trade occurred because the Warriors needed to dump Jackson, not his salary. they were more than willing to keep Jackson for the length of the contract.

The other examples are examples of salary dumps and do prove that with expiring contracts, a team can lure excellent and promising talent from other teams with scrub expiring contracts and the possible draft pick or chip(Baby) thrown in.

[hpantazo]

we need to use those expirings to get a blossoming player, not a fading one.

Here's the catch: You can't get one with expiring contracts only.

TP, looks like some people still don't get that. In addition, we are not looking for a guy who will be a starter or even a 6th man. What do people expect for the 7th or 8th man on the team? Who was our 7th man in 2008? In 86? Who was the 7th man on the 09 Lakers, or on any of the Spurs championship teams?

The Hornets got Okefor in a salary dump. The Bobcats got Stephan Jackson in a salary dump. The Lakers got Pau Gasol in a salary dump. The Kings got John Salmons in a salary dump (Brad Miller’s). The Spurs got Richard Jefferson in a salary dump. The Bucks got Yi in a salary dump (Bobby Simmons’ – and the traded RJ a year later for expirings so it’s the same difference). The Magic got Vince Carter in a salary dump. The Nuggets got Chauncey Billups in a salary dump. The Celtics got Ray Allen in a salary dump. Should I go on?

Some included picks, some included a good young player or two. Some of these guys are young, some are older, but all are better than Driving While Nocioni.

Wanna add Baby in? fine. Wanna add a 1st in? Fine. But the Cs can find a player better than Andres Nocioni with an offer of a) expirings, and b) a willingness to take on a contract. Case in point: Monta Ellis. Watch how low the bidding will be when he asks for a trade, considering the lack of leverage and poor management in GS.

Lemme know if you 'get it' and i'll give you a TP!

the only "blossoming" player in that list is Gasol, and it took a lot more salary than we have to "dump" along with a good young player, and was still a deal that should have been vetoed. You are talking about giving up trash (TA, Scal and Giddens) for a "blossoming young player" . Ain't going to happen. Maybe if you get it I'll give you a TP.

How old are Yi and Okefor? I don't follow your point about the value of expiring contracts unless you're going to cling to the semantics of "blossoming". These players are all either better than Nocioni or have far greater room to improve, period. They were given away for salary relief. I'll take Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter over Andres Nocioni. You?   

Meanwhile our "trash" = cap space in 2010. Check the list of guys available next summer. It's pretty good. I also recommend reading up on the cap -- Roy Hobbs has a great post on FAQs.

I wouldn't call Yi and Okafor "blossoming", I would call them "busts". And as for the 2010 free agent class, which one of those great players do you think are going to sign with us for the small amount of cap space that TA and Scal's contracts add up to?

Like I said, read up on the cap. The Celtics can't sign anyone with the space from TA and Scal's deals because don't have any space and won't. Other teams do or will and will continue to look to add more. So adding expiring contracts from the Cs may be desirable for them. Or maybe they just want long term relief from deals that they feel were a mistake for whatever reason -- production, fit, off the court stuff -- whatever. And as I pointed out previously the Cs have more than just TA and Scal in expiring deals.

I think we've finished here. TP for the effort.

agreed, TP for a great argument

[ssspence]

Okay, twice, ssspence, you included Okafor as a trade that was made because of a salary dump in Charlotte. But that's not right. Chandler has two years on his contract and both years are more expensive than that of Okafor's. I think that trade happened because both teams were unhappy with the performance of their centers and because New Orleans was looking to dump as much salary this year as possible even at the expense of taking on future years while maintaining the semblance of remaining competitive or even upgrading their talent.

Did Charlotte want to get out of longer term debt for enticing a future ownership change? Yes, but this trade was not a strict salary dump for expiring deals. And again, the Jackson trade was not a salary dump. The Jackson trade occurred because the Warriors needed to dump Jackson, not his salary. they were more than willing to keep Jackson for the length of the contract.

The other examples are examples of salary dumps and do prove that with expiring contracts, a team can lure excellent and promising talent from other teams with scrub expiring contracts and the possible draft pick or chip(Baby) thrown in.

Nick, i really don't follow you. what is it your look for here?

what did Golden State get out of the Jackson deal? relief from a long-term salary they wish they hadn't agreed to. To boot, that relief came in the form a of a guy who had been dumped by his previous team as part of a salary dump (Radmonovic) -- so there's another example.

what did Charlotte get out of the Okafor deal? relief from a long-term salary they wish they hadn't agreed to. To boot, that relief came in the form a of a guy who had been dumped by his previous team as part of a salary dump (NOHs failed attempt to get rid of Chandler for nothing before he failed his physical) -- so there's another example.

I'm making what I hope you'll agree is a clear point about the value of salary relief to NBA teams, particularly those who aren't very well run. considering the Cs could trade anywhere from $500k to $31m in expiring contracts to get a deal done in 2009-2010, why are you nit-picking me about the difference between teams that trade guys with long-term deals because they don't want to pay em, teams that sour on players with such deals, and teams that make trades for both reasons? what difference does it make? at the end of the day, the deals accomplish a P&L sheet the team can live with more than they could the day before based on the direction of their franchise.

call it cap relief, call it headache relief, whatever you like. the trades themselves are the point.