Looking back at the Garnett and Gasol trades

[j_fran]

The Gasol trade is a black mark on the history of the NBA. 

No comparison.  The Gasol trade was ridiculous.  Gasol was carrying Memphis into the playoffs.  Memphis was a PLAYOFF team.  Since they lost Pau they have been one of the worst teams in the league.  The trade made zero sense for them.  Plus at the time of the trade, Marc was a project. 

The Minny trade was made sense for Both teams.  Minny had been trying to trade Garnett for a while.  They didn't have a way of getting pieces to put together with Garnett, and they were no longer a playoff team, and they were clearly looking to rebuild.  They got a proven young PF in Al Jefferson, and they got a good role player in Gomes.  They also moved Garnetts giant contract.  It allowed them to rebuild. 

I blame Minny for not being able to find better players to put around Garnett.  But at the time of the trade it made sense to move him.  They didn't have players to trade for Pierce and Allen, or a young pg like rondo to shoot for a championship.   


No comparison, the Gasol trade was a joke, it was a sham, it was a dirty trade, it is a black mark on the history of the NBA. 

I'm not going to waste my time pointing out all the wrong statements in your rant, just one.  The Memphis Grizzlies, the year of the Pau Gasol trade, ended up finishing 22-60, the exact same as they had the year before, so no, they were in no sense a PLAYOFF team.

[greenhead85]

The LAL-Memphis trade involving the Gasol brothers was a travesty to basketball fans and corporate business because it was kept under wraps. Nobody knew that Pau was available for a trade. Other GMs could only grimace (and most stunned) after the deal because a lot of teams out there would want to have a hand on Pau and that they can offer better (better players and more money, I guess) to Memphis.

We gave up 7 players with one All-Star material in Jefferson and serviceable players like Gomes and Ratliff.

The face value of the players being offered by LAL were glaringly less superior than the ones we offered for franchise players, Garnett and Pau Gasol.

[Steve Weinman]

Marc Gasol is a worse defender than Al Jeferson though. Which is pretty scary since Big Al wouldn't be as bad as he currently is if he weren't playing out of position.

You have to be kidding...Gasol worse defender than Jefferson? Why, because he is european?? Or because you've only watched Pau and you think they are the same player?

Whether he is actually worse than Big Al, I'm not sure - but I'll register my agreement with Fafnir that they are both atrocities at that end.  I don't think he moves well at all defensively...he's a big body, but a slow one, and I'm not that enamored with much of what he does at that end.  Maybe he'll get better on that side, maybe Al will get better - but I don't know how valid the suggestion is at this point in time that Gasol has some sort of substantive edge defensively.

-sw

[j_fran]

 The only reason you'd compare Al to Gasol is because of Al's injuries. Last year he was 23/11. Gasol's putting up numbers like Al did when he was 21. Gomes isn't an awful player. Also, one of the picks we sent was Minny's first round pick that they owed us, which is much more valuable than our own pick or any of the Laker's picks.

I'll admit I underrated Gomes in my first post, but I did say that Minni's first round pick is more valuable but I will also say that Garnett was a better player the last two years (after injuries who knows).  As for Jefferson vs. Gasol, personally I'd rather have Gasol averaging 15/10 (which I'd expect this season) than Jefferson's 22/10 (on 5-7 more shots a game).  And I don't think you can discount the $9 million difference in their yearly salaries.  But I don't want to really argue too much about whether Jefferson is better or Gasol is better or the value of this or that as it's too subjective in some cases, but rather I'm simply saying that looking back at the two deals, Memphis got a relatively similar amount back for their star as the T-Wolves did.  

[Fafnir]

Marc Gasol is a worse defender than Al Jeferson though. Which is pretty scary since Big Al wouldn't be as bad as he currently is if he weren't playing out of position.

You have to be kidding...Gasol worse defender than Jefferson? Why, because he is european?? Or because you've only watched Pau and you think they are the same player?

I've watched Pau and Marc.

I cannot stress how much better a defensive player Pau is over his brother, its seriously not even close. Marc is similar to David Lee on defense, though he's not a bad shot blocker. But the rest of his defensive game is "blech!"

[Fafnir]

Marc Gasol is a worse defender than Al Jeferson though. Which is pretty scary since Big Al wouldn't be as bad as he currently is if he weren't playing out of position.

You have to be kidding...Gasol worse defender than Jefferson? Why, because he is european?? Or because you've only watched Pau and you think they are the same player?

Whether he is actually worse than Big Al, I'm not sure - but I'll register my agreement with Fafnir that they are both atrocities at that end.  I don't think he moves well at all defensively...he's a big body, but a slow one, and I'm not that enamored with much of what he does at that end.  Maybe he'll get better on that side, maybe Al will get better - but I don't know how valid the suggestion is at this point in time that Gasol has some sort of substantive edge defensively.

-sw

I will give Marc Gasol credit for losing the weight he has. He's not as slow as he was last year in the two Memphis games I've watched. But he's still a bad defender.

[greenhead85]

Overall, the LAL-Memphis trade was a knee-jerk reaction and an urgent deal that LAL must consummate after they lost out to us in the Garnett tussle. LAL will not even make the NBA finals the last 2 years if they didn't get Gasol. They will be an easy prey in the Finals for us since nobody in their lineup would ever give us much of a challenge in the paint. Plus, I strongly doubt if they would even get through San Antonio, Houston, and Utah in the Western Conference for seasons 2007-08 and 2008-09.

Kobe's star could have been nowhere if not for the Gasol trade. His team was desperate to get him and unfortunately to all of the basketball fans they were able to run away with a steal right before the public eye.

Maybe j_fran, we could recall the time before the trade was sealed. Yes, the positives for both Minny and Memphis are the aftermath of the deal. The risks taken by both paid dividends. Still prior to the deal, the players offered were very disproportionate in talent and numbers.

[j_fran]

Maybe j_fran, we could recall the time before the trade was sealed. Yes, the positives for both Minny and Memphis are the aftermath of the deal. The risks taken by both paid dividends. Still prior to the deal, the players offered were very disproportionate in talent and numbers.

Okay, then we have to also look at the different objectives each team had.  Minni was willing to take on Jefferson's contract while Memphis was adamant about shedding Gasol salary, which they did.  I think under the circumstances both teams' management were under, that they both did fairly well for themselves.  Of course the positives are in the aftermath of the deal, but that's the only way to accurately evaluate a trade.  And in looking at the deal at the time, no one would place Gasol near Garnett in value, so I would expect the needed perceived value at the time to be greater to get Garnett.  Everyone is also assuming that Memphis had no idea how good Marc Gasol could be which I think is wrong.  As I said earlier, he was a solid player in the Spanish league and on his way to being the league MVP.  The only reason he was a second round pick instead of a first was because of the same reason Luis Scola and so many other Euros have been. 

[greenhead85]

Maybe j_fran, we could recall the time before the trade was sealed. Yes, the positives for both Minny and Memphis are the aftermath of the deal. The risks taken by both paid dividends. Still prior to the deal, the players offered were very disproportionate in talent and numbers.

Okay, then we have to also look at the different objectives each team had.  Minni was willing to take on Jefferson's contract while Memphis was adamant about shedding Gasol salary, which they did.  I think under the circumstances both teams' management were under, that they both did fairly well for themselves.  Of course the positives are in the aftermath of the deal, but that's the only way to accurately evaluate a trade.  And in looking at the deal at the time, no one would place Gasol near Garnett in value, so I would expect the needed perceived value at the time to be greater to get Garnett.  Everyone is also assuming that Memphis had no idea how good Marc Gasol could be which I think is wrong.  As I said earlier, he was a solid player in the Spanish league and on his way to being the league MVP.  The only reason he was a second round pick instead of a first was because of the same reason Luis Scola and so many other Euros have been. 

I would agree with you that Garnett is ahead of Gasol in terms of talent and leadership. I would even agree with you regarding the contracts that have to be dealt with. Still fans and GMs were dumbfounded when the Memphis-LAL was consummated. A lot were asking how come Gasol was taken by LAL when we did not even know that he was available. Garnett was shopped around to all interested GMs and Danny offered the best and that is the reason we got KG.

LAL-Memphis trade possesses a lot of good returns for both parties. That is as far as the two teams are concerned. Most GMs felt a bad taste left on their tongue after the trade because they were also interested in Gasol had they known Memphis was shopping him around. The what-could-have-been scenario is all over the place. What if Memphis tried to make a deal with other teams and could have gotten another franchise player into their fold instead of the ones they have at present?

[KCattheStripe]

Yes, but the problem with the LA/Memphis trade, is that Memphis could have either milked more out of LA ( Say Odom or Farmar/Walton) to go with Gasol. Yes, Marc turned out to be a very good center, but his relative value at the time was low, so Memphis could have gotten even more for the Elder Gasol.

But A) they were trying to shed salary so they weren't going to take Odom or Walton.  Walton cause he has a bad contract and Odom because they wouldn't have also got Marc Gasol or the same draft picks.  And B) Farmar wasn't that highly rated and Crittenton actually looked better at the beginning of last year.  

You mistake my point, I was using Odom or Farmar/Walton to illustrate how much Value Pau had.

[Brickowski]

The point is that Memphis and Minnesota had nothing to lose.  MN was going nowhere with Garnett, and Memphis was going nowhere with Pau Gasol.  Just look at their  records before the trade. Who cares that the trades also helped LA and Boston? The issue for the rebuilding teams is what's best for their franchises.

[BballTim]

 The only reason you'd compare Al to Gasol is because of Al's injuries. Last year he was 23/11. Gasol's putting up numbers like Al did when he was 21. Gomes isn't an awful player. Also, one of the picks we sent was Minny's first round pick that they owed us, which is much more valuable than our own pick or any of the Laker's picks.

I'll admit I underrated Gomes in my first post, but I did say that Minni's first round pick is more valuable but I will also say that Garnett was a better player the last two years (after injuries who knows).  As for Jefferson vs. Gasol, personally I'd rather have Gasol averaging 15/10 (which I'd expect this season) than Jefferson's 22/10 (on 5-7 more shots a game).  And I don't think you can discount the $9 million difference in their yearly salaries.  But I don't want to really argue too much about whether Jefferson is better or Gasol is better or the value of this or that as it's too subjective in some cases, but rather I'm simply saying that looking back at the two deals, Memphis got a relatively similar amount back for their star as the T-Wolves did.  

  For one thing you're ignoring the fact that Pau's 4-5 years younger than KG, going into his prime instead of KG being on the downside. Also you can talk about MGasol being a more efficient scorer than Al but it's easier to score when you're the 3rd option offensively than if you're the focal point of the defense. Swap Mayo and Gay for Gomes and Foye and Gasol's going to have a much harder time putting the ball in the hole. So, yeah, if you forget about Gomes and ignore the difference between Jefferson and Gasol the trades weren't that different.

[Fafnir]

The point is that Memphis and Minnesota had nothing to lose.  MN was going nowhere with Garnett, and Memphis was going nowhere with Pau Gasol.  Just look at their  records before the trade. Who cares that the trades also helped LA and Boston? The issue for the rebuilding teams is what's best for their franchises.

But that's the point I think the entire league is certain that Memphis could have gotten a better "basketball" package for Pau Gasol.

Instead they picked the package that saved the franchise the most money.

[Redz]

Marc's outplaying Pao so far this year.

[ToppersBsktball10]

Marc's outplaying Pao so far this year.

Adam Morrison's outplaying Pau Gasol this year...