Looking back at the Garnett and Gasol trades

[j_fran]

Now I know that readers of this blog like to make the argument that the Pau Gasol trade was an outright travesty, but I ask that everyone take off their green-tinted glasses and let's take a look at the Gasol trade in comparison to the Garnett trade.  I contend that the two trades were very similar and that Memphis actually might have received the better deal when finances are included

In looking at the two deals today, they basically come down to the following...

Garnett for Al Jefferson and two first round picks.
Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol and two first round picks.

Let's agree not to argue about the relative value of Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, etc. and let's also agree that the draft picks are of relatively similar value.  If you want to say that the Minni pick the Celtics returned is more valuable, that's fine, and let's consider that equal to the difference in quality between Garnett and P. Gasol.  So the deal basically comes down to Jefferson vs. M. Gasol.

This year Jefferson is averaging 15 and 6 and M. Gasol 16 and 11.  Jefferson will probably return to being a 20-10 player (as the focus of the Wolves offensive) by the end of the season and I would expect Gasol to remain around 15 and 11 (while dealing with shoot-first guards).  Add in the substantial advantage Gasol has defensively, especially at the center position, and the fact that he has a few more years of his contract at $3 million while Jefferson is up around $12 million/year and I'd wager that most GMs in the league would rather have Marc Gasol on their team.  At the very least I think they are even.

So basically the two trades were similar.  I think that Memphis received a better player and cut more payroll at the same time, but at the very least it seems wrong to call the Gasol trade theft when claiming Minnesota received a fair deal for Garnett.  Neither got back equal to the player they lost but both teams did okay considering the circumstances.

Interested to hear objective and reasoned thoughts.

Cheers.

[j_fran]

HA! didn't see this topic already covered on the next page. [dang]. wasted five minutes.   

[KCattheStripe]

Now I know that readers of this blog like to make the argument that the Pau Gasol trade was an outright travesty, but I ask that everyone take off their green-tinted glasses and let's take a look at the Gasol trade in comparison to the Garnett trade.  I contend that the two trades were very similar and that Memphis actually might have received the better deal when finances are included

In looking at the two deals today, they basically come down to the following...

Garnett for Al Jefferson and two first round picks.
Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol and two first round picks.

Let's agree not to argue about the relative value of Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, etc. and let's also agree that the draft picks are of relatively similar value.  If you want to say that the Minni pick the Celtics returned is more valuable, that's fine, and let's consider that equal to the difference in quality between Garnett and P. Gasol.  So the deal basically comes down to Jefferson vs. M. Gasol.

This year Jefferson is averaging 15 and 6 and M. Gasol 16 and 11.  Jefferson will probably return to being a 20-10 player (as the focus of the Wolves offensive) by the end of the season and I would expect Gasol to remain around 15 and 11 (while dealing with shoot-first guards).  Add in the substantial advantage Gasol has defensively, especially at the center position, and the fact that he has a few more years of his contract at $3 million while Jefferson is up around $12 million/year and I'd wager that most GMs in the league would rather have Marc Gasol on their team.  At the very least I think they are even.

So basically the two trades were similar.  I think that Memphis received a better player and cut more payroll at the same time, but at the very least it seems wrong to call the Gasol trade theft when claiming Minnesota received a fair deal for Garnett.  Neither got back equal to the player they lost but both teams did okay considering the circumstances.

Interested to hear objective and reasoned thoughts.

Cheers.

Yes, but the problem with the LA/Memphis trade, is that Memphis could have either milked more out of LA ( Say Odom or Farmar/Walton) to go with Gasol. Yes, Marc turned out to be a very good center, but his relative value at the time was low, so Memphis could have gotten even more for the Elder Gasol.

[Fafnir]

Marc Gasol is a worse defender than Al Jeferson though. Which is pretty scary since Big Al wouldn't be as bad as he currently is if he weren't playing out of position.

[j_fran]

Yes, but the problem with the LA/Memphis trade, is that Memphis could have either milked more out of LA ( Say Odom or Farmar/Walton) to go with Gasol. Yes, Marc turned out to be a very good center, but his relative value at the time was low, so Memphis could have gotten even more for the Elder Gasol.

But A) they were trying to shed salary so they weren't going to take Odom or Walton.  Walton cause he has a bad contract and Odom because they wouldn't have also got Marc Gasol or the same draft picks.  And B) Farmar wasn't that highly rated and Crittenton actually looked better at the beginning of last year.  

[Atzar]

Marc Gasol's value at the time was much, much lower than Al Jefferson's value.  

Also, I don't think you can so quickly dismiss the extra players in each deal as 'equal'.  Javaris Crittenton, Kwame Brown, Aaron McKie vs. Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff.  I'll call McKie and Green a wash - a player who is now out of the league vs. a player I hadn't even heard of before looking the deal up now.  Kwame vs. Telfair is a wash - two busts who now serve as mediocre bench players.  Crittenton, after looking at his tools, has potential but isn't getting any minutes for a Washington team stacked with guards.  Meanwhile, Gomes is a borderline starter and Theo Ratliff is still a decent shotblocking big off the bench.  I'd say the pieces we gave up are more valuable than the pieces they gave up, and I don't really think it's that close.

In the end, I still think Gasol was much more of a steal than Garnett.  

[LarBrd33]

Marc Gasol's value at the time was much, much lower than Al Jefferson's value.  

Also, I don't think you can so quickly dismiss the extra players in each deal as 'equal'.  Javaris Crittenton, Kwame Brown, Aaron McKie vs. Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff.  I'll call McKie and Green a wash - a player who is now out of the league vs. a player I hadn't even heard of before looking the deal up now.  Kwame vs. Telfair is a wash - two busts who now serve as mediocre bench players.  Crittenton, after looking at his tools, has potential but isn't getting any minutes for a Washington team stacked with guards.  Meanwhile, Gomes is a borderline starter and Theo Ratliff is still a decent shotblocking big off the bench.  I'd say the pieces we gave up are more valuable than the pieces they gave up, and I don't really think it's that close.

In the end, I still think Gasol was much more of a steal than Garnett.  

Yeah nobody had any idea Marc Gasol was going to be that good.  He was just a throw-in.  Had Marc Gasol turned into a 1 point, 1 rebound scrub (a Robert Swift type), nobody would have really been shocked.

It's the equivalent of the Celtics trading Semih Erden for Chris Bosh or something.

[j_fran]

Yeah nobody had any idea Marc Gasol was going to be that good.  He was just a throw-in.  Had Marc Gasol turned into a 1 point, 1 rebound scrub (a Robert Swift type), nobody would have really been shocked.

It's the equivalent of the Celtics trading Semih Erden for Chris Bosh or something.

I think you're wrong on that.  M. Gasol was the MVP of the Spanish league, following other players like Luis Scola, andres Nocioni, and Juan Carlos Navarro.  Simply because many fans over in the states hadn't heard of him does not mean he wasn't well regarded by scouts and management.  He was considered a first round talent that went in the second round because, like many European players, he was staying an extra year before coming to the NBA.

[greenwise]

Marc Gasol is a worse defender than Al Jeferson though. Which is pretty scary since Big Al wouldn't be as bad as he currently is if he weren't playing out of position.

You have to be kidding...Gasol worse defender than Jefferson? Why, because he is european?? Or because you've only watched Pau and you think they are the same player?

[greenwise]

And by the way...P.Gasol also did a fine job against Howard in the Finals. Too bad it meant a title for the Fakers

[Brickowski]

I think j_fran's analysis is spot on.  The Grizz did NOT want a player like Odom in return.  First, they did not want to take on the payroll.  Secondly, they did not want to be a 42 win team post Gasol.  They wanted to be a 30 win team for at least a couple of years.

The Gasol deal was not nearly as bad for Memphis as the pundits have suggested. Jefferson is better than Mark Gasol, but that's beside the point.

[Atzar]

I think j_fran's analysis is spot on.  The Grizz did NOT want a player like Odom in return.  First, they did not want to take on the payroll.  Secondly, they did not want to be a 42 win team post Gasol.  They wanted to be a 30 win team for at least a couple of years.

The Gasol deal was not nearly as bad for Memphis as the pundits have suggested. Jefferson is better than Mark Gasol, but that's beside the point.

Yes.  The fact that one centerpiece was clearly better than the other is completely irrelevant to which trade was more of a steal.   

[jambr380]

Yeah nobody had any idea Marc Gasol was going to be that good.  He was just a throw-in.  Had Marc Gasol turned into a 1 point, 1 rebound scrub (a Robert Swift type), nobody would have really been shocked.

It's the equivalent of the Celtics trading Semih Erden for Chris Bosh or something.

I think you're wrong on that.  M. Gasol was the MVP of the Spanish league, following other players like Luis Scola, andres Nocioni, and Juan Carlos Navarro.  Simply because many fans over in the states hadn't heard of him does not mean he wasn't well regarded by scouts and management.  He was considered a first round talent that went in the second round because, like many European players, he was staying an extra year before coming to the NBA.

Gasol was the 48th pick in the draft. He was never considered a huge prospect. He really was closer to Erden than Big Al at the time the trade occurred. This has been covered many times in these forums, but the basic point isn't how good Gasol is now, but what he was perceived to be at the time of the trade. Even if he turns into Dwight Howard, the Lakers still stole Pau from Memphis, while the Jefferson/Gomes/lottery pick were everything and more for a Twolves team that simply didn't need KG anymore.

[ben]

The Gasol trade is a black mark on the history of the NBA. 

No comparison.  The Gasol trade was ridiculous.  Gasol was carrying Memphis into the playoffs.  Memphis was a PLAYOFF team.  Since they lost Pau they have been one of the worst teams in the league.  The trade made zero sense for them.  Plus at the time of the trade, Marc was a project. 

The Minny trade was made sense for Both teams.  Minny had been trying to trade Garnett for a while.  They didn't have a way of getting pieces to put together with Garnett, and they were no longer a playoff team, and they were clearly looking to rebuild.  They got a proven young PF in Al Jefferson, and they got a good role player in Gomes.  They also moved Garnetts giant contract.  It allowed them to rebuild. 

I blame Minny for not being able to find better players to put around Garnett.  But at the time of the trade it made sense to move him.  They didn't have players to trade for Pierce and Allen, or a young pg like rondo to shoot for a championship.   


No comparison, the Gasol trade was a joke, it was a sham, it was a dirty trade, it is a black mark on the history of the NBA. 

[BballTim]

 The only reason you'd compare Al to Gasol is because of Al's injuries. Last year he was 23/11. Gasol's putting up numbers like Al did when he was 21. Gomes isn't an awful player. Also, one of the picks we sent was Minny's first round pick that they owed us, which is much more valuable than our own pick or any of the Laker's picks.