Looking back at the Garnett and Gasol trades

[CoachCowens]

What it comes down to is what was available at the time the trades were made.  Yes, looking back on it, Memphis got a decent deal for Pau, but that's only b/c the 48th pick in a weak draft happened to pan out.  Look at all the other players drafted around Marc and none of them are in the league anymore.  You want to say that Memphis knew he was good...probably, but i'm sure no one in the organization thought he'd be doing this good this early (it's a testament to him losing the weight). 

The point is the Memphis could have gotten an even BETTER deal had they played the whole thing out like a good franchise would do.  They could have gotten cap relief AND a highly touted young player if they had really shopped around for it.  The fact of the matter is they didn't, they shipped out an allstar to a team with close ties to West (yes, i know he wasn't technically with the franchise anymore, but i'm sure he was still friendly with them) for a bunch of nothing at the time. 

In the words of Chevy Chase in Dirty Work 'hindsight is 20/20 my friend'

Pau Gasol was on the market for over a year, almost two years.  Nobody wanted him.  Over that period, Memphis tried to get as much as could in return, but there were no takers.  How many of you were advocating a Jefferson + other assets for Gasol trade while he was on the market?  Who knows how many teams probably said "no" to Memphis. 

Don't cry after the fact because he went to the Lakers.  The execs that didn't want Gasol, or the fans that didn't think much of Gasol at the time, are a bunch of revisionists and hypocrites. 

Gasol is a great player, but he's also isn't the sole reason why the team's prospects are so good for the foreseeable future.  How about the wisdom in drafting Bynum?  It's these two guys together that are creating nightmarish problems for virtually everyone in the league.  Nobody "gifted" Bynum to the Lakers, who wouldn't be nearly as potent without him.

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

Speaking of revisionists history. People called foul as soon as the trade went down, even coaches like Popovich. The owner later came out and said they may have made a mistake. It was awful at the time. You can argue that things didn't turn out as one side as they started out but don't pretend that nobody wanted Gasol.

 

[GreenFaith1819]

The Gasol trade is a black mark on the history of the NBA. 

No comparison.  The Gasol trade was ridiculous.  Gasol was carrying Memphis into the playoffs.  Memphis was a PLAYOFF team.  Since they lost Pau they have been one of the worst teams in the league.  The trade made zero sense for them.  Plus at the time of the trade, Marc was a project. 

The Minny trade was made sense for Both teams.  Minny had been trying to trade Garnett for a while.  They didn't have a way of getting pieces to put together with Garnett, and they were no longer a playoff team, and they were clearly looking to rebuild.  They got a proven young PF in Al Jefferson, and they got a good role player in Gomes.  They also moved Garnetts giant contract.  It allowed them to rebuild. 

I blame Minny for not being able to find better players to put around Garnett.  But at the time of the trade it made sense to move him.  They didn't have players to trade for Pierce and Allen, or a young pg like rondo to shoot for a championship.   


No comparison, the Gasol trade was a joke, it was a sham, it was a dirty trade, it is a black mark on the history of the NBA. 

Good post, ben.

Let me add a few more adjectives to the Gasol Trade:

Heist, Hijack, stolen car, "Christmas in LA" (The Grizzlies GAVE Pau to LA, but received very LITTLE, at least right away). True spirit of Christmas.

Just kidding, people. Marc Gasol has indeed developed into one of the better centers in the NBA, but at the time of the trade this thing was a shamboozle.

And to this day, Pau is an All-Star in the NBA, and is the focal point of LA's attack. He is an above average shotblocker, very good medium-range shooter, and somewhat reminds me of a Kevin Mchale-Light with his lowpost moves.

I'm sorry but Marc is not there, yet. He is definitely getting better--a Top Ten Center I believe, but Pau is still ahead, IMHO.

Thus this trade IMO was lopsided at the time as far as talent given/received. And it is still lopsided, no offense to Marc.

And nope I wouldn't trade KG for Pau.

[jambr380]

What it comes down to is what was available at the time the trades were made.  Yes, looking back on it, Memphis got a decent deal for Pau, but that's only b/c the 48th pick in a weak draft happened to pan out.  Look at all the other players drafted around Marc and none of them are in the league anymore.  You want to say that Memphis knew he was good...probably, but i'm sure no one in the organization thought he'd be doing this good this early (it's a testament to him losing the weight). 

The point is the Memphis could have gotten an even BETTER deal had they played the whole thing out like a good franchise would do.  They could have gotten cap relief AND a highly touted young player if they had really shopped around for it.  The fact of the matter is they didn't, they shipped out an allstar to a team with close ties to West (yes, i know he wasn't technically with the franchise anymore, but i'm sure he was still friendly with them) for a bunch of nothing at the time. 

In the words of Chevy Chase in Dirty Work 'hindsight is 20/20 my friend'

Pau Gasol was on the market for over a year, almost two years.  Nobody wanted him.  Over that period, Memphis tried to get as much as could in return, but there were no takers.  How many of you were advocating a Jefferson + other assets for Gasol trade while he was on the market?  Who knows how many teams probably said "no" to Memphis. 

Don't cry after the fact because he went to the Lakers.  The execs that didn't want Gasol, or the fans that didn't think much of Gasol at the time, are a bunch of revisionists and hypocrites. 

Gasol is a great player, but he's also isn't the sole reason why the team's prospects are so good for the foreseeable future.  How about the wisdom in drafting Bynum?  It's these two guys together that are creating nightmarish problems for virtually everyone in the league.  Nobody "gifted" Bynum to the Lakers, who wouldn't be nearly as potent without him.

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

I just disagree with too much here, but the main point here is apparently we wouldn't have had to give up AJ in order to get Pau, since all the Lakers gave up was a very unheralded 2nd round pick. Yeah, it is a bummer that he went to the Lakers, but that was really just the cherry on top more than anything else. Basically Chris Wallace just got extremely lucky.

[CelticG1]

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

  Kobe would never see the playoffs with the cast Al's had to play with. And so far Bynum's not a franchise center.

He plays like a franchise center 10 games a year. Clocks ticking on the next time somebody steps on his foot and he is out for 30 games.

You mean if Bynum lands awkwardly on someone else's foot.  Don't see how someone stepping on his foot would be harmful.

This is merely questioning the luck factor, not his abilities.    Majority of the league wishes they had him.  How many centers are better than he is?  Just Dwight.  You'd likely swap Perkins for Bynum in a heartbeat.

I'd rather have a C I can depend on for the whole year than Bynum.  Bynum's got worlds of potential but when he can play a whole year healthy we'll talk.

Also, there aren't any centers besides Dwight Howard that I'd rather have on the defensive end. 

I agree completely. I can't really give any credit to Bynum until he at least plays one good healthy year. I don't care if he has bad luck or whatever. If he can show me something for at least a year then I would consider otherwise but right now I don't want bad luck on my team. Not to mention isn't Bynum being paid more than Perk? Thats kind of laughable at this point. He was just rated as the most over-paid player in the league.

[PosImpos]

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

  Kobe would never see the playoffs with the cast Al's had to play with. And so far Bynum's not a franchise center.

He plays like a franchise center 10 games a year. Clocks ticking on the next time somebody steps on his foot and he is out for 30 games.

You mean if Bynum lands awkwardly on someone else's foot.  Don't see how someone stepping on his foot would be harmful.

This is merely questioning the luck factor, not his abilities.    Majority of the league wishes they had him.  How many centers are better than he is?  Just Dwight.  You'd likely swap Perkins for Bynum in a heartbeat.

I'd rather have a C I can depend on for the whole year than Bynum.  Bynum's got worlds of potential but when he can play a whole year healthy we'll talk.

Also, there aren't any centers besides Dwight Howard that I'd rather have on the defensive end. 

I agree completely. I can't really give any credit to Bynum until he at least plays one good healthy year. I don't care if he has bad luck or whatever. If he can show me something for at least a year then I would consider otherwise but right now I don't want bad luck on my team. Not to mention isn't Bynum being paid more than Perk? Thats kind of laughable at this point. He was just rated as the most over-paid player in the league.

That's a good point.  I'd definitely rather have Perkins on my team, health aside, just because our team would have zero cap flexibility if we had Bynum on the books. 

[guava_wrench]

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

  Kobe would never see the playoffs with the cast Al's had to play with. And so far Bynum's not a franchise center.

He plays like a franchise center 10 games a year. Clocks ticking on the next time somebody steps on his foot and he is out for 30 games.

You mean if Bynum lands awkwardly on someone else's foot.  Don't see how someone stepping on his foot would be harmful.

This is merely questioning the luck factor, not his abilities.    Majority of the league wishes they had him.  How many centers are better than he is?  Just Dwight.  You'd likely swap Perkins for Bynum in a heartbeat.

I'd rather have a C I can depend on for the whole year than Bynum.  Bynum's got worlds of potential but when he can play a whole year healthy we'll talk.

Also, there aren't any centers besides Dwight Howard that I'd rather have on the defensive end. 

I agree completely. I can't really give any credit to Bynum until he at least plays one good healthy year. I don't care if he has bad luck or whatever. If he can show me something for at least a year then I would consider otherwise but right now I don't want bad luck on my team. Not to mention isn't Bynum being paid more than Perk? Thats kind of laughable at this point. He was just rated as the most over-paid player in the league.

Perk does have the sketchy shoulder.

[guava_wrench]

Interested to hear objective and reasoned thoughts.

Cheers.

"Reasoned" makes sense. A topic like this will always be subjective.

[scottwedman]

while the Jefferson/Gomes/lottery pick were everything and more for a Twolves team that simply didn't need KG anymore.

Uh huh.  The T-Wolves turned down Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom, plus a couple #1s for KG - we got a hometown discount from McHale.

[USG]

while the Jefferson/Gomes/lottery pick were everything and more for a Twolves team that simply didn't need KG anymore.

Uh huh.  The T-Wolves turned down Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom, plus a couple #1s for KG - we got a hometown discount from McHale.

Right, because Bynum was all that and a bag of chips before '07-'08.

Forget what he is now. When LA offered that trade it was KG for an above average PF who was too old and close to FA to be a part of their rebuilding plans, and an unproven center who was busy spending the offseason getting lambasted by Kobe for not working hard enough.

[CelticG1]

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

  Kobe would never see the playoffs with the cast Al's had to play with. And so far Bynum's not a franchise center.

He plays like a franchise center 10 games a year. Clocks ticking on the next time somebody steps on his foot and he is out for 30 games.

You mean if Bynum lands awkwardly on someone else's foot.  Don't see how someone stepping on his foot would be harmful.

This is merely questioning the luck factor, not his abilities.    Majority of the league wishes they had him.  How many centers are better than he is?  Just Dwight.  You'd likely swap Perkins for Bynum in a heartbeat.

I'd rather have a C I can depend on for the whole year than Bynum.  Bynum's got worlds of potential but when he can play a whole year healthy we'll talk.

Also, there aren't any centers besides Dwight Howard that I'd rather have on the defensive end. 

I agree completely. I can't really give any credit to Bynum until he at least plays one good healthy year. I don't care if he has bad luck or whatever. If he can show me something for at least a year then I would consider otherwise but right now I don't want bad luck on my team. Not to mention isn't Bynum being paid more than Perk? Thats kind of laughable at this point. He was just rated as the most over-paid player in the league.

Perk does have the sketchy shoulder.

Yeah maybe but the past few years he's been as consistent and reliable as any center in the league. It's not like he's been missing significant time. I'm saying that Bynum has yet to prove that he can stay on the floor for a season where Perk has.

[jdpapa3]

Let's go back to the 07 draft and assess just how hard it would have been for Memphis to get Marc Gasol: he was taken 48th. Memphis had no second rounder, but it looks like the value of those late round picks was sky high when you look at what the Mavericks paid for 44: #44 pick Reyshawn Terry traded by Orlando to Dallas for #60 Milovan Rakovic.

Hometown discount from McHale: Yeah right. There were diehards on here that hated to get rid of all of those guys at the time. It was the best deal out there.

Gasol had been on the market, but for an extremely high price. Wallace wanted Jefferson in the summer prior and the Celts were close to pulling the trigger on it, until he asked for Rondo, too. He was on the trade block in the summer, but Wallace didn't pull the trigger. No one knew he was back on the trade block when the trade actually went down. Usually when you are trying to unload a franchise players, you let media, agents, etc. know it so that some team might hear about it and put together a monster package. We had the fan bases of every team in the league throwing together their KG proposals, but during that early part of the season no one had a clue how available Gasol was.

[moiso]

The KG & Pau trades are more equal than you think.  Marc Gasol plays on a team that doesn't run its offense through him.  And if Jefferson is so good, why haven't his teams been more successful?  They go to him, yet the results are still bad.  Says quite a bit about him, if you were to ask me.

What you are really upset about is the fact the Lakers actually have a brighter future, due to Andrew Bynum.  You guys are running out of time, while the Lakers have a blossoming big man who is only 22 years old.  Granted, he needs to stay healthy, but that's true for all players.

  Kobe would never see the playoffs with the cast Al's had to play with. And so far Bynum's not a franchise center.

He plays like a franchise center 10 games a year. Clocks ticking on the next time somebody steps on his foot and he is out for 30 games.

You mean if Bynum lands awkwardly on someone else's foot.  Don't see how someone stepping on his foot would be harmful.

This is merely questioning the luck factor, not his abilities.    Majority of the league wishes they had him.  How many centers are better than he is?  Just Dwight.  You'd likely swap Perkins for Bynum in a heartbeat.

I'd rather have a C I can depend on for the whole year than Bynum.  Bynum's got worlds of potential but when he can play a whole year healthy we'll talk.

Also, there aren't any centers besides Dwight Howard that I'd rather have on the defensive end. 

I agree completely. I can't really give any credit to Bynum until he at least plays one good healthy year. I don't care if he has bad luck or whatever. If he can show me something for at least a year then I would consider otherwise but right now I don't want bad luck on my team. Not to mention isn't Bynum being paid more than Perk? Thats kind of laughable at this point. He was just rated as the most over-paid player in the league.

Perk does have the sketchy shoulder.

Yeah maybe but the past few years he's been as consistent and reliable as any center in the league. It's not like he's been missing significant time. I'm saying that Bynum has yet to prove that he can stay on the floor for a season where Perk has.

So you'd rather have Perk than Yao or Oden?  I'd put Bynum in the same class as them.  It's a tough call.  Perk is the least talented but the most reliable of the bunch.

[BballTim]

while the Jefferson/Gomes/lottery pick were everything and more for a Twolves team that simply didn't need KG anymore.

Uh huh.  The T-Wolves turned down Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom, plus a couple #1s for KG - we got a hometown discount from McHale.

  Why would the Wolves want Odom's contract?

[RebusRankin]

Actually LA wouldn't throw in Bynum. It was Kwame, Odom and picks for KG.

[Who]

Actually LA wouldn't throw in Bynum. It was Kwame, Odom and picks for KG.

I remember that they wouldn't include Bynum + Odom in the same package when they were trying to get Jermaine O'Neal but I'm fairly sure they did in the Garnett trade discussions.

McHale just didn't value Bynum as much as he did Al Jefferson which looked a good decision at the time because Bynum had shown very little in his first two years.