Anyone Impressed With the Cavs?

[Rondo_is_better]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

[Fafnir]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

Uh since when are assists the only measure of a good passer?

Also since when are Shaqs assist numbers bad for a Center? I think you're looking at the wron statistics, for a Center he's a very good passer. Especially out of the post.

[j804]

screw shaq lets talk celtics bball

Marquis shined and was awesome on this Cleveland win, heres to hoping he stays consistent in the opener! Get Em

[Fafnir]

screw shaq lets talk celtics bball

Marquis shined and was awesome on this Cleveland win, heres to hoping he stays consistent in the opener! Get Em

That's the topic of this thread and forum area though, if you'd like to talk Celtics you can go to the proper area. Plenty of threads active about the C's there!

[Rondo_is_better]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

Uh since when are assists the only measure of a good passer?

Also since when are Shaqs assist numbers bad for a Center? I think you're looking at the wron statistics, for a Center he's a very good passer. Especially out of the post.

Whatever dude. Whatever. This is getting nowhere, we're saying the same things back to each other repeatedly.

[Fafnir]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

Uh since when are assists the only measure of a good passer?

Also since when are Shaqs assist numbers bad for a Center? I think you're looking at the wron statistics, for a Center he's a very good passer. Especially out of the post.

Whatever dude. Whatever. This is getting nowhere, we're saying the same things back to each other repeatedly.

Not really this is the first time I've addressed you. Its hard to keep saying the same thing to each other when this is the first!

His assist rate is only 1% lower than Kareem's, who has the most assists for a center as far as I can tell. His average of 2.6 for a Center also is pretty good, though I couldn't find a list that ranked centers for that.

His career average would put him as the top 4 assist Center in the NBA this last year behind Duncan/Gasol/Brad Miller.

Shaq is not a poor passer, you are misrepresenting the numbers when you claim they show this.

[Rondo_is_better]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

Uh since when are assists the only measure of a good passer?

Also since when are Shaqs assist numbers bad for a Center? I think you're looking at the wron statistics, for a Center he's a very good passer. Especially out of the post.

Whatever dude. Whatever. This is getting nowhere, we're saying the same things back to each other repeatedly.

Not really this is the first time I've addressed you. Its hard to keep saying the same thing to each other when this is the first!

His assist rate is only 1% lower than Kareem's, who has the most assists for a center as far as I can tell. His average of 2.6 for a Center also is pretty good, though I couldn't find a list that ranked centers for that.

His career average would put him as the top 4 assist Center in the NBA this last year behind Duncan/Gasol/Brad Miller.

Shaq is not a poor passer, you are misrepresenting the numbers when you claim they show this.

Ok, maybe it was the first time you addressed me, but all the responses are running together! please, MAKE IT STOP!

I haven't seen Shaq's lauded passing ability in action, ok? And every time I see him play he looks like a black hole who makes one nice flip pass. All I'm gonna say on the matter, I'm totallyyyyy done with this topic.

[Fafnir]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

Uh since when are assists the only measure of a good passer?

Also since when are Shaqs assist numbers bad for a Center? I think you're looking at the wron statistics, for a Center he's a very good passer. Especially out of the post.

Whatever dude. Whatever. This is getting nowhere, we're saying the same things back to each other repeatedly.

Not really this is the first time I've addressed you. Its hard to keep saying the same thing to each other when this is the first!

His assist rate is only 1% lower than Kareem's, who has the most assists for a center as far as I can tell. His average of 2.6 for a Center also is pretty good, though I couldn't find a list that ranked centers for that.

His career average would put him as the top 4 assist Center in the NBA this last year behind Duncan/Gasol/Brad Miller.

Shaq is not a poor passer, you are misrepresenting the numbers when you claim they show this.

Ok, maybe it was the first time you addressed me, but all the responses are running together! please, MAKE IT STOP!

I haven't seen Shaq's lauded passing ability in action, ok? And every time I see him play he looks like a black hole who makes one nice flip pass. All I'm gonna say on the matter, I'm totallyyyyy done with this topic.

Well it is rude of you not to pay attention to which poster you are responding to. It happens, but when you quote and resond you really should look at who you are quoting!

Also you demanded stats that would show Shaq is a good passer, I tried to provide some. Its unforunate that you really didn't want those stats, or to have the debate.

[GKC]

Absolutely agreeing with Fanfir here. Look, the stats, and you know most of passing out of the post becomes hockey assists, show that Shaq has no incremental change.

You admittedly stated that LA has a triangle which "inflated shaqs numbers", yet his assist rate has stayed consistent since then?

So if you agreed that Shaq was good then, he's still good now. That's what the stats say.

[Rondo_is_better]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

Uh since when are assists the only measure of a good passer?

Also since when are Shaqs assist numbers bad for a Center? I think you're looking at the wron statistics, for a Center he's a very good passer. Especially out of the post.

Whatever dude. Whatever. This is getting nowhere, we're saying the same things back to each other repeatedly.

Not really this is the first time I've addressed you. Its hard to keep saying the same thing to each other when this is the first!

His assist rate is only 1% lower than Kareem's, who has the most assists for a center as far as I can tell. His average of 2.6 for a Center also is pretty good, though I couldn't find a list that ranked centers for that.

His career average would put him as the top 4 assist Center in the NBA this last year behind Duncan/Gasol/Brad Miller.

Shaq is not a poor passer, you are misrepresenting the numbers when you claim they show this.

Ok, maybe it was the first time you addressed me, but all the responses are running together! please, MAKE IT STOP!

I haven't seen Shaq's lauded passing ability in action, ok? And every time I see him play he looks like a black hole who makes one nice flip pass. All I'm gonna say on the matter, I'm totallyyyyy done with this topic.

Well it is rude of you not to pay attention to which poster you are responding to. It happens, but when you quote and resond you really should look at who you are quoting!

Also you demanded stats that would show Shaq is a good passer, I tried to provide some. Its unforunate that you really didn't want those stats, or to have the debate.

Sorry about not recognizing that you were a different poster. The thread ranged over several days.

I did not demand stats... at least I don't remember doing that...

I had the debate for like 8 pages, and I grew very tired of it. After discussing it at length, I'm really done talking about it.

[Fafnir]

Okay fair enough.

As for your request for numbers that was today.

I don't think you can claim someone is a good passer unless the stats back you up or you provide video evidence. The fan consensus is that Shaq is a good passer, but I don't see it, and the numbers don't show it. They show him to be above average at best. As for his passing in LA, the triangle sysem had a lot to do with that and it artificially inflated his numbers.

[MMacOH]

Anyone who bases an opinion of a team off a preseason game is kidding themselves.  That being said, the Cavs haven't jelled yet as a team.  It will be interesting to see how Tuesday goes. 

I didn't get to see the game so can someone answer a question for me?  Did Delonte play?  Did he start?  Was Moon playing?  I have had a lot going on in my life over the past couple weeks which has gotten me out of touch with the Cavs

[Redz]

Anyone who bases an opinion of a team off a preseason game is kidding themselves.  That being said, the Cavs haven't jelled yet as a team.  It will be interesting to see how Tuesday goes. 

I didn't get to see the game so can someone answer a question for me?  Did Delonte play?  Did he start?  Was Moon playing?  I have had a lot going on in my life over the past couple weeks which has gotten me out of touch with the Cavs

Hey Mac, was hoping you'd chime in.

Delonte did not play.  Moon did play but looked lost.

While I don't generally  put much stock in a preseason game either, the Cavs were taking it seriously (Shaq dove on the floor for a loose ball at one point).

I guess all that really matters is what the teams look like in the Spring.

or Tuesday!

Bring on the real games.

[the_Bird]

Delonte hasn't played at all this preseason.  They seemed to miss him, Boobie's not really a rotation player.  Moon got abused, his "defense" made Quisy look like an All Star.  At times, Shaq was having his way with 'Sheed ([dang it]).  Big Z hit some nice shots, but looked like he was playing in a tar pit (is he going to make it all the way through the season?).

[hwangjini_1]

Z.... i always liked him as a player and he does have great shooting range for a center.

however, he was never fast or quick. after the operations and with age he has slowed down considerably.

with shaq to help in the center spot, Z should make it through the season.