Anyone Impressed With the Cavs?

[CoachCowens]

Chris Mannix had an interesting take on Cleveland on 98.5 this afternoon. He thought they would have the best record in the regular season but come playoffs the Celtics would be the better team.  The Cavs would have issues because the Celtics could draw Shaq out of the paint with Wallace and KG. 

[indeedproceed]

Chris Mannix had an interesting take on Cleveland on 98.5 this afternoon. He thought they would have the best record in the regular season but come playoffs the Celtics would be the better team.  The Cavs would have issues because the Celtics could draw Shaq out of the paint with Wallace and KG. 

I don't buy that. KG, sure, but then who stops Shaq from walking into the paint?

Matter fact, who stops Shaq from walking into the paint anyway? Perk didn't seem that successful.

[mgent]

Chris Mannix had an interesting take on Cleveland on 98.5 this afternoon. He thought they would have the best record in the regular season but come playoffs the Celtics would be the better team.  The Cavs would have issues because the Celtics could draw Shaq out of the paint with Wallace and KG. 

I think Cleveland is better against the bad teams; at least that is my opinion from the past 2 years, and getting Shaq will probably make them even better.  But when it comes to the Celtics and the other elite teams (especially the Magic last year) they just aren't as good, even though their record would indicate otherwise.  I think this is in a large part due to LeBron simply destroying the teams' weaker defenses, and the fact that LeBron gets away with a lot more at home (only 2 of their losses last year were at home).

In contrast, the Celtics sometimes find themselves stacking up the losses against weaker teams (and home court doesn't make as much of a difference for us).

These are only my initial thoughts on the subject, I honestly haven't researched this and I could be off.

[Scalablob990]

The W or L's depend solely on LeBron or Pierce imo. If Pierce can guard LeRoid effectively AND pour in 20+ pts we win. Same can go for LeBron, if he shuts down Pierce and pours in 20+ usually we lose....those two are my favorite match up though, i'm never disappointed.

[Rondo_is_better]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

Well...I sort of...qualified my statement....to make sure....that this post....didn't get made......

"Not since he started his time in Phoenix"

 I'm sure he was a very good passer in LA, but I don't really remember that time all that well--I was 11 in 2003 and that particular detail did not stick in my mind. As for Miami, I KNOW he was not a good passer there. He made a few nice little behind the back passes to a cutting D-Wade on the baseline a few times, but that's it. He was actually pretty horrible in general post 2006.

Fairweather: I'll buy that he was no slouch of a passer for the majority/prime of his career, but post-2006 I haven't seen it. He makes some pretty passes every once in a while (long while) and people go "ohh, same old Shaq!", but really, his fundamental production of assists and overall distrubution ability has declined since '06--I'm like, 36% sure the numbers back me up on that.

Actually the numbers don't back you up.

Shaq's assist ratio has actually hovered around 9-11% since his time in Miami, with a big drop in his second year in Miami (the year where Wade played PG for most of the time). Granted, with Wade playing PG, less people are cutting for Shaq, so that's fair.

Shaq's injury years (08 and 07) see his turnover rate go way up, but last year being healthy, his turnover rate actually went down. His overall assist NUMBERS went down, but that's almost purely because of less minutes.

Well, it sounds like the numbers don't really back either one of us up. As usual, this is a false dichotomy we're creating--he's not great and he's not terrible. He falls somewhere in the middle.

[GKC]

Well actually, there's no false dichotomy. We have at least some definitive answer (remembering that a lot of shaqs passes end in hockey assists).

Because he's barely changed since 2002, if you thought he was a good passer then, he's a good passer now. If he's a bad passer then, he's still one.

What we do have the answer to, is that he's gotten worse, which he hasn't (at least not much worse).

[slamtheking]

just adding into the general observations:
Shaq looked better than I expected.  He was actually productive on the floor.  Having said that, Shaq, as usual, benefitted greatly from the refs not calling his travelling, foot shuffling and basically bowling over his defenders.  if he continues to get his usual "all star" treatment, he could be a big asset for the Cavs if they figure out how to use him in the offense where he doesn't clog up the paint for Lebron's drives. 

Bron was in mid-season form in terms of getting his star treatment.  There's no way any other player gets away with a 3-step carry from one side of the court to the other to avoid a double team.

Other than Bron and Shaq, the rest of the team does not look like a threat.  Sideshow Bob will still bring his usual hustle, Z can still hit his jumpers but no one else looked particularly good.  Williams, Moon and Parker were ineffective. 

Cavs won't beat C's unless they're absolutely hitting on all cylinders---everyone is shooting lights out and the Bron/Shaq are getting full star treatment from the refs.

[Brickowski]

Actually Shaq's footwork in the post is quite good.  The preferential treatment arises when he backs down his man using brute force.  That's a charge unless you happen to be Shaq.

It's ironic that the NBA has eliminated hand checking, yet Shaq can bulldoze defenders with that big butt of his with complete impunity.

[slamtheking]

Actually Shaq's footwork in the post is quite good.  The preferential treatment arises when he backs down his man using brute force.  That's a charge unless you happen to be Shaq.

It's ironic that the NBA has eliminated hand checking, yet Shaq can bulldoze defenders with that big butt of his with complete impunity.

Usually perhaps but I recall a few plays where he was shuffling along without getting a traveling call.  The bulldozing is just the status quo with him.  Always has been which has added to his "unstoppable" rep.  If he actually got called on this, he'd be forced to take shots outside his comfort zone of 8 feet resulting in less scoring.

[Bahku]

Is anyone impressed?

Not me.

I think Shaq will be the biggest surprise, (because I think he can still contribute), but I also think LB's gonna be a bit more stifled in the paint than usual, and that they're not as deep or as formiddable as last year ... not at all.

[Fafnir]

Is anyone impressed?

Not me.

I think Shaq will be the biggest surprise, (because I think he can still contribute), but I also think LB's gonna be a bit more stifled in the paint than usual, and that they're not as deep or as formiddable as last year ... not at all.

How so? I think they've gotten deeper. Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon have greatly improved their depth at the 2/3 position.

Their PF depth is still bad though, they're going to end up playing LBJ there more often.

[Who]

I didn't see the Celtics-Cavs game but I saw two other of the Cavs preseason games ... and I've seen nothing to suggest that they're better than last year's team.

Comparable rather than better or worse.

[Bahku]

Is anyone impressed?

Not me.

I think Shaq will be the biggest surprise, (because I think he can still contribute), but I also think LB's gonna be a bit more stifled in the paint than usual, and that they're not as deep or as formiddable as last year ... not at all.

How so? I think they've gotten deeper. Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon have greatly improved their depth at the 2/3 position.

Their PF depth is still bad though, they're going to end up playing LBJ there more often.

Individually, yes, good players ... but as a "support cast" for LeBron, (and that's what this team is about), I just don't see them as compatible as last year's team. I'm interested to see how they will rotate the forwards, especially when Shaq is on the floor. Shaq has consistently not played well against the Celtics, and I don't think this Cavs team is as dangerous to us as they were last year ... time will tell.

[Fafnir]

Is anyone impressed?

Not me.

I think Shaq will be the biggest surprise, (because I think he can still contribute), but I also think LB's gonna be a bit more stifled in the paint than usual, and that they're not as deep or as formiddable as last year ... not at all.

How so? I think they've gotten deeper. Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon have greatly improved their depth at the 2/3 position.

Their PF depth is still bad though, they're going to end up playing LBJ there more often.

Individually, yes, good players ... but as a "support cast" for LeBron, (and that's what this team is about), I just don't see them as compatible as last year's team. I'm interested to see how they will rotate the forwards, especially when Shaq is on the floor. Shaq has consistently not played well against the Celtics, and I don't think this Cavs team is as dangerous to us as they were last year ... time will tell.

Other than Shaq how are they not as compatible? Shaq replaced Ben Wallace, who was terrible in every way. So even if he's not a great fit for LeBron that can't have made them much worse.

Meanwhile Parker/Moon are both good shooters and give them better size to match up defensively. So now they can play Delonte as a backup PG/SG, his best role. As it was he was guarding Hedo!!!

[BBS]

These Cavs are impressive.


These Cavs not so much.