Anyone Impressed With the Cavs?

[the_Bird]

Well, yeah but...  they still seemed to be counting on him.  He's been public with his struggles, and maybe they were looking for some insurance.  They still don't have a real PG on the roster, Delonte was the closest they had.  Don't think they have any free roster spots (thanks, Leon!). 

Hell, they should have pursued Quisy!  He'd be pretty much the perfect Delonte replacement. 

[Chris]

Why do we keep talking about Delonte as being their backup PG?  Delonte started all last year, and I don't *think* the guys they signed were signed to start.  He backs up Mo at the point, but he's still a starter.

I don't disagree with the Delonte = 'Sheed argument; like I said earlier, I think Delonte = Posey.

Oh, I absolutely think they signed those guys hoping one of them would start.  But I think that might have as much to do with Delonte's mental state, and resulting unreliability as it is with his actual play.

Did they?  I was under the impression that Delonte's recent descent was a relatively new development (at least since after the signings).  I know that his challenges have been known for a while, but it didn't seem to be impacting his performance until this fall.

Well, it affected him last year too, since he missed a good deal of training camp because of depression.  If they did not foresee the possibility of it arising again, they were being naive.

[bucknersrevenge]

Delonte is at best a mediocre player and ballhandler who to his credit found the perfect system to play in where he'd only have to handle the ball part-time because of LBJ. His defense has never been all that great especially against PGs because he lacks the footspeed to stay in front of them. That was the case here in Boston and I don't think it's changed. So it sounds like what we're saying is it's not that West is so good. It's just in comparison to Daniel Gibson, he's much better. I guess I'll buy that but players with West's skillset in this league are a dime a dozen. Hell we just drafted one at 58 who has aleady shown at least as good ballhandling ability(he can actually dribble the ball with both hands) and a decent defensive acumen.

I think some people may be thinking with their heart more than their head when they say they want West back. There are cheaper, better alternatives out there if we need that skillset back here in a player who(and I hate to be hard on a guy that was well liked here but...) isn't a drama queen.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think it's a stretch to suggest that Lester Hudson is as good as Delonte West.  His skill set may be a dime a dozen (although I don't see it that way), but there was only one guy with his skills starting on a 66 win team last year.

The guy is a legit starter in the NBA.  He may not be a superstar, but he is in the top 40% of so of players in the league.

[BudweiserCeltic]

"Mediocre player"... you just lost all the credibility your post might've had otherwise.

[Chris]

I think it's a stretch to suggest that Lester Hudson is as good as Delonte West.  His skill set may be a dime a dozen (although I don't see it that way), but there was only one guy with his skills starting on a 66 win team last year.

The guy is a legit starter in the NBA.  He may not be a superstar, but he is in the top 40% of so of players in the league.

I would still argue that he is best suited to be coming off the bench, and was a starter last year by default, but overall, I agree.

I think his size and lack of ball handling ability make it tough for most teams to have him as a starter, but the Cavs got away with it for most of the year (it hurt them against Orlando though).  Ultimately, he is an ideal 3rd guard, who, when healthy, can have a large impact on a game.

[nickagneta]

Through 9 pages of discussion I just find it hard to believe that close to no one has mentioned the Cavs biggest weakness, the power forward position. Their starter is Anderson Varejao, a glorified bench player with zero offensive skills and little defensive acumen other than following down and trying to pick up a charge. He's an okay rebounder but not great.

Meanwhile their best backup for the position, Leon Powe, is hurt until April or possibly beyond and the other two PFs are second year players that might show as much promise as PFs as Bill Walker and JR Giddens show promise as SFs. Take that statement however you like.

But any way you slice it their entire group of bigs, with the exception of Ilgauskas has no outside game. None. And with the addition of Shaq, I don't see Big Z getting much more than 20 MPG if that. Offensively, the Cavs have in reality, no PG and no PF. It's LeBron, Shaq and a bunch of 2 guards. Very, very predictable and easily defended in my opinion.

The Cavs are in for a very loud wakeup call to the tune of 55 wins or less unless they make changes.

[Roy Hobbs]

It's LeBron, Shaq and a bunch of 2 guards. Very, very predictable and easily defended in my opinion.

Last year, wasn't it Lebron, Ben Wallace, and a bunch of two guards, then?  That team managed to win 66 games, and crushed us in Cleveland.

On paper, the Cavs shouldn't be that strong of a team, but they were last year, and I expect they will be this season, as well.

[Fafnir]

It's LeBron, Shaq and a bunch of 2 guards. Very, very predictable and easily defended in my opinion.

Last year, wasn't it LeBron, Ben Wallace, and a bunch of two guards, then?  That team managed to win 66 games, and crushed us in Cleveland.

On paper, the Cavs shouldn't be that strong of a team, but they were last year, and I expect they will be this season, as well.

fixed

And yes it really was just that, LeBron was that good last year. I do think they won't be as good in the regular season this year.

[the_Bird]

Been saying for a while that I think the Cavs potentially face a big weakness against teams with big men who can shoot (*cough, cough, CELTICS*) because of their unathletic power forwards.

Without Delonte, I'm thinking they're potentially weak against a lot of the more-athletic squads out there.  Think about the challenges we've faced (for a variety of reasons, granted) against squads like Chicago and Atlanta.  Big men who can shoot, they can't defend except for Sideshow.  

How do they defend when you've got a combo of KG, 'Sheed, and BBD out there?  Even Landlord can hit that outside jumper a la PJ Brown.  All of our bigs, with the exception of Perk, they need to defend on the perimiter and Varajao's the only one with the footspeed to do it.

Who's going to be able to defend Rondo?  Mo?  What about even Quisy?  Moon was ABUSED the other night.  I know it's preseason, but...  c'mon.  Cripes, Wally did a pretty good job on Ray Allen last year (with some help), and now he's gone.

They look old and slow at a lot of key places.  LeBron's a freak, but the Cavs remain fundamentally a squad of role players.  Outside of LeBron and Shaq, do they have a player that wouldn't be best coming off the bench?  Eveb "All Star" Mo Williams looks more like a (very good) third-guard than starting PG.  

Every player on that squad except LeBron has a serious hole somewhere in their game.  

They'll win a lot of games because LeBron is just that good.  He *needs* his Pippen, though, to get the title. 

[nickagneta]

It's LeBron, Shaq and a bunch of 2 guards. Very, very predictable and easily defended in my opinion.

Last year, wasn't it Shaq, Ben Wallace, and a bunch of two guards, then?  That team managed to win 66 games, and crushed us in Cleveland.

On paper, the Cavs shouldn't be that strong of a team, but they were last year, and I expect they will be this season, as well.

No last year it was Z, Wallace and a bunch of 2 guards. But with Z playing outside and not clogging up the middle and with the Cavs best 2 guard, IMHO, going off the deep end and having serious problems, I think the chemistry and functionality of this team is way different.

[RAcker]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, no matter how Shaq gells, if they don't get Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon giving more than we saw them give the other night on the defensive end, they are in trouble.  Wally was better than what I saw in that pre-season game.

Just like with us, if they develop good chemistry they are going to be very good.  If not, it's anybody's guess.

[moiso]

Moon is a lot better than what a lot of people are saying based on one game.  He's known as a good defender.  He's not going to be guarding many people like Daniels(who can play point guard).  And I like the Parker signing.  I think too much is being based on one preseason game.  The team is going to be fine, and they are going to be right there battling with the C's and Orlando at the end.

[Vermont Green]

Cleveland may have some flaws but they still do have 3 players (LeBron, Shaq, Williams) who can carry the team on any given night.  Z is still going to play and contribute and I think their Powerforward by Committee approach is going to work well enough.  I think the Celtics can beat them but they are still right there.

As for Delonte, he is a nice piece if available and ready to play but also not an insurmountable loss if not.  With him it is more about depth.  If he starts, Parker can come off the bench and Gibson can be more of a specialty guard.  If they don't have Delonte, then Parker starts and you see more of Gibson having to be the actual PG.  None of this is a huge problem either way but D-dub is a nice piece to have in the mix.

[Jon]

Aside from the whole Shaq thing, the "problem" with Parker and Moon is that they don't help them all that much.  They're both good, don't get me wrong, but where's the upgrade?  If West can't keep it together, all Parker is doing is taking his place, not upgrading it.  So that's not an upgrade from last season.  And even if West does get it together, there probably isn't room for West, Parker, and Moon to all get substantial minutes in a playoff rotation, so the one who gets bumped really only makes them better if an injury occurs.

Most importantly, they can backup LBJ as well, which he did not have a good backup for last year. Considering the negative +/- they generally have with LBJ is off the floor, it has definitely helped them in the depth department.

Remember how dehydrated Lebron got during the playoffs? He felt he HAD to play almost all 48 minutes of the game, and this allows him a little breathing room. It's the same reason why we wanted a good backup for PP and Ray.

Eh, maybe.  But do you really think either is good enough to actually get LeBron off the floor in the playoffs for more than a few minutes?  It's good in theory, but I still see them mostly limited to "2" duty.