Anyone Impressed With the Cavs?

[celticinorlando]

read in the cleveland paper that the cavs are not where they expected to be at this point...lebron said that people need to be patient and not judge them by what happens in game one...sounds like a built in excuse

[nickagneta]

I haven't seen any of the Cavs pre-season games but wonder if they have looked as bad as their pre-season 3-4 record does? Where's our buddy MMac when we really need him for a good scouting report.

Granted, it's just pre-season and record doesn't matter and most of their starters have only been playing about 20 minutes per game while the likes of Boobie Gibson, J J Hickson, Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker have been playing big minutes. But, the C's bench of Rasheed, Eddie, Marquis, and Baby have been playing 20+ MPG as well and the C's had a very positive W-L record this pre-season.

I really hope that the Delonte problems and the apparent lack of a decent bench based on these pre-season results is a precursor to a bad year for the LeBrons. I don't know why but not since the Bad Boy Pistons have a come to really wish bad things on a team as I do this Cavs team. It has to be LeBron who's personality and general infatuation around the league really grinds my gears(insert Family Guy video here).

[Brickowski]

Well,like him or not, LeBron is a special player who can carry that team. I don't have a problem with him, but I do have a problem with the way the officials fawn over him. That's what's disgusting, not LeBron. 

And he's right about next Tuesday's game.  Neither team will have discovered its identity yet, and I'm certainly not going to jump off a bridge if the C's lose. What matters is May and June. 

[fairweatherfan]

Not at all. Shaq is a blackhole, and not the blackhole he once was. Now he just misses hookshots and dives ineffectively for loose balls.

I dunno, Shaq's always been one of the better passing centers.  He's made guys a lot of money passing out of doubles for open 3s and layups.  I agree with the part about him potentially clogging the lane for LeBron and to a lesser extent Mo and Delonte.  Remember Z liked to drift out for long jumpers and sometimes 3s.  Not so much with Shaq.  Shaq's all time Achilles heel (non-FT category) of pick and roll defense plays into our hands when we've got Sheed out there too.

[Brickowski]

The pick and roll defense is one issue, his inability to get up and down the floor is another.  Just run, run, run whenever he is in the game, even on made baskets. It should be 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 every single offensive possession.

[nickagneta]

The pick and roll defense is one issue, his inability to get up and down the floor is another.  Just run, run, run whenever he is in the game, even on made baskets. It should be 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 every single offensive possession.

Especially with a guy like Perk who has the lower body strength and size to keep Shaq off his initial positioning but also has the youth, speed and ability to run the floor. A fastbreak agenda for the C's when Shaq is in for the Cavs, should work completely in the Celtics favor.

[Rondo_is_better]

Not at all. Shaq is a blackhole, and not the blackhole he once was. Now he just misses hookshots and dives ineffectively for loose balls.

I dunno, Shaq's always been one of the better passing centers.  He's made guys a lot of money passing out of doubles for open 3s and layups.  I agree with the part about him potentially clogging the lane for LeBron and to a lesser extent Mo and Delonte.  Remember Z liked to drift out for long jumpers and sometimes 3s.  Not so much with Shaq.  Shaq's all time Achilles heel (non-FT category) of pick and roll defense plays into our hands when we've got Sheed out there too.

Ehh.... I've seen him make some nice passes before, but I haven't ever seen this lauded passing ability in action. Not since he started his time in Phoenix, anyway. Right now it seems like his best attribute is being huge. Can you name a particular skill that he has that still really stands out?

[GKC]

Not at all. Shaq is a blackhole, and not the blackhole he once was. Now he just misses hookshots and dives ineffectively for loose balls.

I dunno, Shaq's always been one of the better passing centers.  He's made guys a lot of money passing out of doubles for open 3s and layups.  I agree with the part about him potentially clogging the lane for LeBron and to a lesser extent Mo and Delonte.  Remember Z liked to drift out for long jumpers and sometimes 3s.  Not so much with Shaq.  Shaq's all time Achilles heel (non-FT category) of pick and roll defense plays into our hands when we've got Sheed out there too.

Ehh.... I've seen him make some nice passes before, but I haven't ever seen this lauded passing ability in action. Not since he started his time in Phoenix, anyway. Right now it seems like his best attribute is being huge. Can you name a particular skill that he has that still really stands out?

He commands the double team depending on the center (he did when we had Wallace guarding him). And that allows him to pass (though it doesn't show on stats as it's usually the hockey assist).

I disagree that he's a black hole. I mean, he doesn't take that many shots anymore.

I will say one thing though. Cleveland has a very unique ability of just benching Shaq and letting his contract run out if it doesn't work. I personally don't think Shaq will make a huge difference. However, Shaq > Ben Wallace + Pavlovic. So you can't deny they improved. I just think we improved a little more.

[fairweatherfan]

Not at all. Shaq is a blackhole, and not the blackhole he once was. Now he just misses hookshots and dives ineffectively for loose balls.

I dunno, Shaq's always been one of the better passing centers.  He's made guys a lot of money passing out of doubles for open 3s and layups.  I agree with the part about him potentially clogging the lane for LeBron and to a lesser extent Mo and Delonte.  Remember Z liked to drift out for long jumpers and sometimes 3s.  Not so much with Shaq.  Shaq's all time Achilles heel (non-FT category) of pick and roll defense plays into our hands when we've got Sheed out there too.

Ehh.... I've seen him make some nice passes before, but I haven't ever seen this lauded passing ability in action. Not since he started his time in Phoenix, anyway. Right now it seems like his best attribute is being huge. Can you name a particular skill that he has that still really stands out?

Mostly being huge and still demanding double teams these days.  Oh, and he's still the best in the league at shoving his defender into a driving guard to cause a foul call  I agree with GKC that he often gets "hockey assists" by starting the ball moving around the perimeter to the open man.

It looks like his AST% has dropped off in Phoenix, but historically he matches up well against other passing centers. Here's a comparison to Sabonis, Bill Walton, and Olajuwon (not a great passing center, but his closest contemporary overall).  Shaq beats Olajuwon handily in AST% and is surprisingly close to Sabonis.  Walton crushes em all pretty handily.  But Shaq is no slouch.

[nickagneta]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

[GKC]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

You don't have to think that far. He did the same in Miami and even did the same the other day with Lebron with a nice cut

[Rondo_is_better]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

Well...I sort of...qualified my statement....to make sure....that this post....didn't get made......

"Not since he started his time in Phoenix"

 I'm sure he was a very good passer in LA, but I don't really remember that time all that well--I was 11 in 2003 and that particular detail did not stick in my mind. As for Miami, I KNOW he was not a good passer there. He made a few nice little behind the back passes to a cutting D-Wade on the baseline a few times, but that's it. He was actually pretty horrible in general post 2006.

Fairweather: I'll buy that he was no slouch of a passer for the majority/prime of his career, but post-2006 I haven't seen it. He makes some pretty passes every once in a while (long while) and people go "ohh, same old Shaq!", but really, his fundamental production of assists and overall distrubution ability has declined since '06--I'm like, 36% sure the numbers back me up on that.

[indeedproceed]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

Well...I sort of...qualified my statement....to make sure....that this post....didn't get made......

"Not since he started his time in Phoenix"

 I'm sure he was a very good passer in LA, but I don't really remember that time all that well--I was 11 in 2003 and that particular detail did not stick in my mind. As for Miami, I KNOW he was not a good passer there. He made a few nice little behind the back passes to a cutting D-Wade on the baseline a few times, but that's it. He was actually pretty horrible in general post 2006.

Shaq is a good passing big man, especially out of the double team, which is the best kind of passing big man. Yao and TD do it too.

I thought he looked pretty good last night. That was last night, right?

That said, I hope he starts exclusively eating those chicken sandwiches from KFC that use chicken as bread and bacon as sandwich.

[nickagneta]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

Well...I sort of...qualified my statement....to make sure....that this post....didn't get made......

"Not since he started his time in Phoenix"

 I'm sure he was a very good passer in LA, but I don't really remember that time all that well--I was 11 in 2003 and that particular detail did not stick in my mind. As for Miami, I KNOW he was not a good passer there. He made a few nice little behind the back passes to a cutting D-Wade on the baseline a few times, but that's it. He was actually pretty horrible in general post 2006.

Fairweather: I'll buy that he was no slouch of a passer for the majority/prime of his career, but post-2006 I haven't seen it. He makes some pretty passes every once in a while (long while) and people go "ohh, same old Shaq!", but really, his fundamental production of assists and overall distrubution ability has declined since '06--I'm like, 36% sure the numbers back me up on that.

To be fair being a good passer means making the pass and making the right pass so that the offensive possession is successful. It has nothing to do with no looks, behind the back, between the legs, or special spins. Passing out of a collapsing double, and in Shaq's case in LA, triple team, is a highly underrated skill that he excels at. having a big guy that can do that makes an offense extremely dangerous. It is a skill that Perk will desperately need to work on post KG.

[GKC]

I can't believe how many people are forgetting Shaq's days as a Laker and all the excellent passes he was making to open guys, cutters or to the man needing to swing the ball out of double and triple teams.

How many Shaq passes out of a double and triple to to Kobe going to the basket for an easy dunk or layup litter the NBA video archives?

In his prime, Shaq was a very good passer, maybe on of the better ones ever, out of the collapsing double and triple team. He had a great knack of reading the collapse and finding the proper man. How easy we forget just a decade ago.

Well...I sort of...qualified my statement....to make sure....that this post....didn't get made......

"Not since he started his time in Phoenix"

 I'm sure he was a very good passer in LA, but I don't really remember that time all that well--I was 11 in 2003 and that particular detail did not stick in my mind. As for Miami, I KNOW he was not a good passer there. He made a few nice little behind the back passes to a cutting D-Wade on the baseline a few times, but that's it. He was actually pretty horrible in general post 2006.

Fairweather: I'll buy that he was no slouch of a passer for the majority/prime of his career, but post-2006 I haven't seen it. He makes some pretty passes every once in a while (long while) and people go "ohh, same old Shaq!", but really, his fundamental production of assists and overall distrubution ability has declined since '06--I'm like, 36% sure the numbers back me up on that.

Actually the numbers don't back you up.

Shaq's assist ratio has actually hovered around 9-11% since his time in Miami, with a big drop in his second year in Miami (the year where Wade played PG for most of the time). Granted, with Wade playing PG, less people are cutting for Shaq, so that's fair.

Shaq's injury years (08 and 07) see his turnover rate go way up, but last year being healthy, his turnover rate actually went down. His overall assist NUMBERS went down, but that's almost purely because of less minutes.