Anyone Impressed With the Cavs?

[Fafnir]

Aside from the whole Shaq thing, the "problem" with Parker and Moon is that they don't help them all that much.  They're both good, don't get me wrong, but where's the upgrade?  If West can't keep it together, all Parker is doing is taking his place, not upgrading it.  So that's not an upgrade from last season.  And even if West does get it together, there probably isn't room for West, Parker, and Moon to all get substantial minutes in a playoff rotation, so the one who gets bumped really only makes them better if an injury occurs.

Most importantly, they can backup LBJ as well, which he did not have a good backup for last year. Considering the negative +/- they generally have with LBJ is off the floor, it has definitely helped them in the depth department.

Remember how dehydrated Lebron got during the playoffs? He felt he HAD to play almost all 48 minutes of the game, and this allows him a little breathing room. It's the same reason why we wanted a good backup for PP and Ray.

Eh, maybe.  But do you really think either is good enough to actually get LeBron off the floor in the playoffs for more than a few minutes?  It's good in theory, but I still see them mostly limited to "2" duty. 

Given how short Cleveland is at PF LeBron is going to play 10+ minutes there. That opens up plenty of time for Moon/Parker.

[Jon]

Aside from the whole Shaq thing, the "problem" with Parker and Moon is that they don't help them all that much.  They're both good, don't get me wrong, but where's the upgrade?  If West can't keep it together, all Parker is doing is taking his place, not upgrading it.  So that's not an upgrade from last season.  And even if West does get it together, there probably isn't room for West, Parker, and Moon to all get substantial minutes in a playoff rotation, so the one who gets bumped really only makes them better if an injury occurs.

Most importantly, they can backup LBJ as well, which he did not have a good backup for last year. Considering the negative +/- they generally have with LBJ is off the floor, it has definitely helped them in the depth department.

Remember how dehydrated Lebron got during the playoffs? He felt he HAD to play almost all 48 minutes of the game, and this allows him a little breathing room. It's the same reason why we wanted a good backup for PP and Ray.

Eh, maybe.  But do you really think either is good enough to actually get LeBron off the floor in the playoffs for more than a few minutes?  It's good in theory, but I still see them mostly limited to "2" duty. 

Given how short Cleveland is at PF LeBron is going to play 10+ minutes there. That opens up plenty of time for Moon/Parker.

That is a possibility.  Though I think it's a bad idea, I wonder if they'll try to go with the "Two Towers" at times this year. 

[Who]

A perimeter trio of Mo Williams, Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon looks weak to me. It'll be fine in the regular season ... but when matched up against an elite team in the playoffs it'll be taken advantage of.

Heck, that's the Raptors team last season with a downgrade at the point and the Raps were battered all year long on the perimeter.

The Cavs need an upgrade on that perimeter in order to make that LeBron at PF lineup work at a high level. An All-Star or near All-Star talent on the wing ...  Stephen Jackson is good enough to offer that, assuming Mo stays too.

[mgent]

Aside from the whole Shaq thing, the "problem" with Parker and Moon is that they don't help them all that much.  They're both good, don't get me wrong, but where's the upgrade?  If West can't keep it together, all Parker is doing is taking his place, not upgrading it.  So that's not an upgrade from last season.  And even if West does get it together, there probably isn't room for West, Parker, and Moon to all get substantial minutes in a playoff rotation, so the one who gets bumped really only makes them better if an injury occurs.

Most importantly, they can backup LBJ as well, which he did not have a good backup for last year. Considering the negative +/- they generally have with LBJ is off the floor, it has definitely helped them in the depth department.

Remember how dehydrated Lebron got during the playoffs? He felt he HAD to play almost all 48 minutes of the game, and this allows him a little breathing room. It's the same reason why we wanted a good backup for PP and Ray.

Eh, maybe.  But do you really think either is good enough to actually get LeBron off the floor in the playoffs for more than a few minutes?  It's good in theory, but I still see them mostly limited to "2" duty. 

Given how short Cleveland is at PF LeBron is going to play 10+ minutes there. That opens up plenty of time for Moon/Parker.

That is a possibility.  Though I think it's a bad idea, I wonder if they'll try to go with the "Two Towers" at times this year. 

Why do you think that's a bad idea?
LeBron is fast enough to burn most 4s, and strong enough to handle most of them on D.  Personally I've always thought that would be a good idea, and it's probably better than Varejao.
Then again, Williams, Parker, and Moon is pretty weak.  Even with Delonte, I never thought they had a good back court compared to other elite teams.  The Cavs really do suck without LeBron.

[GKC]

People can say it's not good. The point however, is that it's still much better than what they had before (Pavlovic and Wally). They still did considerably well with that. Any small upgrade can go a long way in terms of role players.

[Bankshot]

Still not impressed with the Cavs.  That team really is Lebron and a bunch of mediocre players, always has been. Well, Z was an all-star on year, but other than that...

I don't want to hear that Mo is an all-star.

[Fafnir]

That is a possibility.  Though I think it's a bad idea, I wonder if they'll try to go with the "Two Towers" at times this year. 

They did against the C's and it was okay, nothing great. But against the Raptors it absolutely killed them. The minutes with Big Z/Shaq out there essentially cost them that game.

[JSD]

What about a trade like this?

GS sends:

S. Jackson  $7.6 for 4 years
C. Maggette $8.9 for 4 years
S. Claxton  $5.2 for 1 year

For

Big Z $11 for 1 year
Gibson $4 for 4 years
D. West $4.2 for 2 years
2010 1st round pick

This trade would involve Cleveland dedicating a lot of money to two guys that haven't got the job done in GS. Jackson has been a baby for a while now and Maggette has not performed up to his contracts standards. It would give Cleveland a better starting 5 and bench with a clear leader still on the floor. Assembling this type of talent would be worth the risk in my opinion. Cleveland is no longer set to have an impact this upcoming off-season anyway.

Meanwhile GS saves money right away by getting rid of long term commitments to two guys that aren't a part of the future. West could be parlayed again at the deadline for another expiring only leaving only Gibson. It would be addition by subtraction for GS.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

[ACF]

Eastern W L PCT GB CONF DIV HOME ROAD L 10 STREAK
Boston 1 2 0 1.000 0.0 2-0 0-0 1-0 1-0 2-0 W 2
Atlanta 5 1 0 1.000 0.5 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 W 1
Detroit 3 1 0 1.000 0.5 0-0 0-0 0-0 1-0 1-0 W 1
Miami 2 1 0 1.000 0.5 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 W 1
Orlando 4 1 0 1.000 0.5 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 W 1
Toronto 6 1 0 1.000 0.5 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 W 1
Washington 7 1 0 1.000 0.5 0-0 0-0 0-0 1-0 1-0 W 1
Chicago 0 0 0.000 1.0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 -
Milwaukee 0 0 0.000 1.0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 -
Charlotte 0 1 0.000 1.5 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 L 1
Indiana 8 0 1 0.000 1.5 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 L 1
New Jersey 0 1 0.000 1.5 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 L 1
New York 0 1 0.000 1.5 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 L 1
Philadelphia 0 1 0.000 1.5 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 L 1
Cleveland 0 2 0.000 2.0 0-2 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-2 L 2


No.



 

[Fafnir]

That kills any cap space they'd hope to have. Also I think you're wrong on the length of boobie's deal. He signed a 4 year deal after the 2007-2008 season. Delonte's salary next year is only partially guarenteed as well.

It still doesn't solve the biggest issue with the trade. It'd leave Cleveland with only two bigs. You can't win a title with only two bigs. Not when Orlando/Boston/Lakers are all long and deep at that position.

[the_Bird]

I think I said before that if you took LeBron off the Cavs, they'd be about a thirty-win team.

I think I overstated that by about fifteen wins.  Outside of 'Bron, they're HORRIBLE.  They remind me of an expansion team that's filled with other team's rejects and castoffs, guys that other teams didn't protect because they were either way overpaid for what they contribute (Mo Williams), are WAY past their primes (Shaq, Big Z), or just aren't very good (everyone else).

[Rondo2287]

What about a trade like this?

GS sends:

S. Jackson  $7.6 for 4 years
C. Maggette $8.9 for 4 years
S. Claxton  $5.2 for 1 year

For

Big Z $11 for 1 year
Gibson $4 for 4 years
D. West $4.2 for 2 years
2010 1st round pick

This trade would involve Cleveland dedicating a lot of money to two guys that haven't got the job done in GS. Jackson has been a baby for a while now and Maggette has not performed up to his contracts standards. It would give Cleveland a better starting 5 and bench with a clear leader still on the floor. Assembling this type of talent would be worth the risk in my opinion. Cleveland is no longer set to have an impact this upcoming off-season anyway.

Meanwhile GS saves money right away by getting rid of long term commitments to two guys that aren't a part of the future. West could be parlayed again at the deadline for another expiring only leaving only Gibson. It would be addition by subtraction for GS.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

I wouldnt mind it because while they get to talented players in Magette and Jax that means your dedicating Shaq as your starting center and making him play big minutes.  I dont think he could make it through the whole season like that. 

[the_Bird]

Well, if they got S-Jax, I think you'd see LeBron play more at the 4 (which may or may not be a good idea) and you'd probably see Sideshow mostly backing up Shaq instead of playing alongside him in the starting lineup (a good thing). 

Since Golden State has no real need for Z, they could easily just buy him out.  Thirty days' rest and he's back in Cleveland. 

[JSD]

Adding Maggette and Jackson would allow Cleveland to give James some minutes at the 4 until Powe came back. Adding that kind of talent would be worth it come playoff time.

Minutes might look like:

Shaq 30
Anderson 35
Hickson 26
James 5

Playoffs

Shaq 30
Anderson 35
Powe 20
Hickson 11

[JSD]

Well, if they got S-Jax, I think you'd see LeBron play more at the 4 (which may or may not be a good idea) and you'd probably see Sideshow mostly backing up Shaq instead of playing alongside him in the starting lineup (a good thing). 

Since Golden State has no real need for Z, they could easily just buy him out.  Thirty days' rest and he's back in Cleveland. 

TP. you beat me to it. Also, good point about a potential Z buy out.