Eli Manning signs ridiculous extension!

[Rondo2287]

Eli's Numbers last year 3238 yards passing 21 TD 86.4 Passer Rating

Warner's Numbers last year  4583 yards passing 30 Td  96.9 Passer Rating
And he went to the superbowl last year

why should he not be on that list

these are incomplete stats (try attempts). and by the way the stats you're pushing on toomer and plax stink. the starting two receivers combined for 83 catches and you're telling me eli can't live without them?

in light of roy's comments on the adjacent thread i'm going to stop beating you up so much.

Passer rating takes both attempts and completion% into account, these are pretty complete

[Birdbrain]

I would probably agree with Crownsy's order of Peyton, Brady (when/if healthy) and Eli.  However, Peyton has said ever since Eli was at Ole Miss that he felt Eli was going to be a better quarterback than he ever was.  Maybe another Superbowl or two will change our minds.  

I think him consistantly not being a mediocre at best quarterback will change my mind

You can't argue his stats scream mediocre.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you should use stats to determine his worth.  First off the Giants are run first team because even with Plax (overrated TO clone who always drops critical passes) their bread and butter is pounding it and playing tough defense.

[Cman]

Brady
Payton
Big Ben
Eli
Warner

I would probably put Philip Rivers ahead of Warner, and probably ahead of Eli.  But other than that I can't argue too much with your list.

This make anyone appreciate the kinda money Brady takes so that we can build a superior team?  Taking a pay cut to re-sign Moss and give us the ability to sign others.

As a Pats fan, my biggest concern with Eli's deal is that it will make re-signing Brady that much more expensive.  Yeah, Brady has taken less $$ in the past, but it is not something you can count on in the future (and I wouldn't hate the guy if he tried to get everything he could out of the Pats).

[ssspence]

Didn't heath Miller once win a SB? Did that make him a top 5 QB in the league?

Dieon Branch once won the SB MVP, did that make him a top 5 WR?

Dexter Jones won a SB MVP. Did that make him a defensive player of the year?

Larry Brown won a SB MVP, is he now a Hall of Fame DB?

The fact remains that players can play well in one game and remake what they are through the reputation of that one game. That's what has happened to Eli. He is a mediocre to kinda good QB at best who has suspect decision making and mediocre accuracy in throwing the ball. He had a good fourth quarter in the biggest game of his life. But that fourth quarter shouldn't erase the 4 years of mediocrity that forced Tom Coughlin to rely on his defense and running game to win games. There are easily 10 QBs in the league that if you put them on the Giants would have performed as well or better given the personnel that surrounded Manning.

A prediction. He will once again be rated amongst the leagues lower half of QBs when the season is over. He will have a completion % below 58%. and he will probably throw just over 20 TDs and over 15 interceptions. That's been his MO so far and I don't expect anything different

hey, interceptions happen in the nfc east. it's tough out there. 

[Fafnir]

Eli's Numbers last year 3238 yards passing 21 TD 86.4 Passer Rating

Warner's Numbers last year  4583 yards passing 30 Td  96.9 Passer Rating
And he went to the superbowl last year

why should he not be on that list

these are incomplete stats (try attempts). and by the way the stats you're pushing on toomer and plax stink. the starting two receivers combined for 83 catches and you're telling me eli can't live without them?

in light of roy's comments on the adjacent thread i'm going to stop beating you up so much.

Passer rating takes both attempts and completion% into account, these are pretty complete

Passer rating is worthless. It was created well before the modern passing offense came to maturity. It does not reflect the huge negative that interceptions are accurately. It also doesn't rate accuracy properly. It was set up back when the leage average was very low, because passes were mainly long bombs.

There are a lot of better QB grading systems out there.

[ssspence]

Eli's Numbers last year 3238 yards passing 21 TD 86.4 Passer Rating

Warner's Numbers last year  4583 yards passing 30 Td  96.9 Passer Rating
And he went to the superbowl last year

why should he not be on that list

these are incomplete stats (try attempts). and by the way the stats you're pushing on toomer and plax stink. the starting two receivers combined for 83 catches and you're telling me eli can't live without them?

in light of roy's comments on the adjacent thread i'm going to stop beating you up so much.

Passer rating takes both attempts and completion% into account, these are pretty complete

how many more times did warner throw the ball last year?

[Rondo2287]

I would probably agree with Crownsy's order of Peyton, Brady (when/if healthy) and Eli.  However, Peyton has said ever since Eli was at Ole Miss that he felt Eli was going to be a better quarterback than he ever was.  Maybe another Superbowl or two will change our minds.  

I think him consistantly not being a mediocre at best quarterback will change my mind

You can't argue his stats scream mediocre.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you should use stats to determine his worth.  First off the Giants are run first team because even with Plax (overrated TO clone who always drops critical passes) there bread and butter is pounding it and playing tough defense.

I agree that they are a run first team and I think they lost ward this offseason right? And Jacobs has been injury prone, so when they go to the passing game Eli will be exposed as the fraud that he is

[Cman]

You can't argue his stats scream mediocre.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you should use stats to determine his worth.  First off the Giants are run first team because even with Plax (overrated TO clone who always drops critical passes) there bread and butter is pounding it and playing tough defense.

Yes but you can't argue with the fact that last year the Giants (and Eli) did worse without Plax than with Plax.

[Cman]

TP to the OP for creating such an interesting non-basketball topic.
 

[ssspence]

You can't argue his stats scream mediocre.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you should use stats to determine his worth.  First off the Giants are run first team because even with Plax (overrated TO clone who always drops critical passes) there bread and butter is pounding it and playing tough defense.

Yes but you can't argue with the fact that last year the Giants (and Eli) did worse without Plax than with Plax.

no you can't. the whole situation was a total let down for a team that was rolling. plax's actions since have confirmed the unfortunate truth -- the guy is incredibly selfish, even dillusional, and he had a very tricky effect on that locker room.

faced with an offseason of rumors around boldin and edwards, i think the giants made the right choice to stand pat once nicks fell into their laps. he's going to be good for a long time, smith is an excellent receiver, manningham and moss are going to surprise people, and hixon (who dropped a couple of key balls last year) works his tail off. and while ramses barden is slow, he has really good hands, which means at his size he could indeed be the red zone threat they drafted him to be.

[Rondo2287]

Eli, threw the ball 479 times   60% completion  yards per attempt  6.8
Kurt threw the ball 598 times   67% completion  yards per attempt  7.7

Any more stats you want to prove Kurt is better?

[Cman]

You can't argue his stats scream mediocre.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you should use stats to determine his worth.  First off the Giants are run first team because even with Plax (overrated TO clone who always drops critical passes) there bread and butter is pounding it and playing tough defense.

Yes but you can't argue with the fact that last year the Giants (and Eli) did worse without Plax than with Plax.

no you can't. the whole situation was a total let down for a team that was rolling. plax's actions since have confirmed the unfortunate truth -- the guy is incredibly selfish, even dillusional, and he had a very tricky effect on that locker room.

Giants were 11-1 with Plaxo and 1-4 without Plaxo
Eli's rating 86.4 with Plaxo and 74.2 without Plaxo

[Rondo2287]

All i know is that I havent seen a single stat supporting the fact that Eli is better than any that I listed earlier. 

[Birdbrain]

You can't argue his stats scream mediocre.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you should use stats to determine his worth.  First off the Giants are run first team because even with Plax (overrated TO clone who always drops critical passes) there bread and butter is pounding it and playing tough defense.

Yes but you can't argue with the fact that last year the Giants (and Eli) did worse without Plax than with Plax.

I'm not sure it's Plax or the fact that they have no WRs at all or the fact that they are a run first team.  Someone mentioned Eli had 21/10 TD/INT ratio which turned out to be the best of his career so maybe it wasn't so bad after all.

[ssspence]

All i know is that I havent seen a single stat supporting the fact that Eli is better than any that I listed earlier. 

you might have noticed that there's a feeling floating around that stats aren't an absolute way to actually discern who is better than who. the term 'intangibles' comes to mind -- some guys got em, some guys don't.

i'm happy for warner that he and his lovely wife have found a home chucking it around with gloves on in arizona. but the guy played for the giants and he couldn't throw a ball in the meadowlands to save his whiny behind. he's a fairwather player, a system player, and he happens to have the best receiving combo in the nfl. good times.

meanwhile, he and wally sczczczczerbiak are currently neck-n-neck in the battle for guy who generate the most eyerolls per teammate interaction in the history of sports.

look, let's make this simple -- to back up your argument, please indicate that if you were the GM of an NFL franchise, you would trade Eli Manning for Kurt Warner. Considering your passion for this topic i'd imagine this won't be a problem.