2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[nickagneta]

Instead of asking another GM why you were picked so low, you complain about them.

I know why he ranked me where he did. I had numerous conversations with him via PMs which made it quite plain to me why he ranked me where he did. It's utterly apparent to me. It just seems to be escaping you!!!

Of course, you probably had me ranked so low for the same reason, as I remember you saying how much you liked some of my picks and yet after I question the New York team suddenly you have nothing but bad things to say about my team. Hmmmmm.

Then why did you post what you did?


And do you expect others to know what is in your PMs?


As for your ranking, please look here.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=30950.msg557777#msg557777

If your team was to make it to the playoffs, who would be your main scorer?


Are you worried that your high average scorers have only been high average scorers on weak teams?   When Wallace and Jackson were on top teams (Sac and SA), they were bit roll players.


Are you concerned that the real Przybilla is going to likely lose playtime this year just because the Blazer will want to increase Oden's playtime?

DC

After looking at the depth in the other two divisions, are you a playoff team?


I think all the East teams are better.  I think Chi and Det are better.  I could be persuaded on the 8th spot by a few teams.


Where do you see your team matched up?

And NJ is loaded with playoff winning players that fill rolls.



DC, I am sorry to say, is offensively built around two guys that pad their score totals on bad teams, the top backup C in the league, a shooting PF that has motivational problems, and a PG that has had one good season on a bad team.

All of which you said after having already praised numerous picks of mine and after I criticized your brother.

You know if you had simply told your brother that he had no right trying to play a game that requires you to have internet access when you don't have internet access, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I'm apparently wrong for calling out a GM that took a clearly inferior club(He's been ranked worst by no less than 20 out of 24 voters) and ranked it in front of mine due to personal differences we had in PMs but you, the site moderator, allowed your brother to play a game he had no right playing because he hasn't been an active member here in over a year and doesn't have access to play?

Hey, I've been telling three friends about this game and they are interested.

They are going to join the site tomorrow and then never post ever again. But when the game comes around next year they want me to get teams for each one of them and even though I'm going to put in every single one of their picks and they aren't going to participate in any other way, they expect you to not have a problem with that.

And since you, as a site moderator, have already allowed this, you're not going to have a problem whatsoever, are you WD?

[ChampKind]

My explanation:

1. ORL - Easiest division, and we've seem what Lebron can do with a mediocre division.  I think this is a better supporting cast for him, as well.

2. CLE - Over the course of the season, the depth here propels this team over the Bulls.  In the 2 slot because the Atlantic teams will do just enough damage to each other to bump them down to the 3rd seed.  Probably a different story in the playoffs.

3. NJ - Crafty veterans who win games and have enough spring in their step to keep winning.  Great defense here in a tough, tough Atlantic race.

4. CHI - A game behind CLE, just because an injury to a starter for more than 5 games sinks this team.  They've got a strong healthy background and youth, but I don't think any team can count on more the 350 total games from their starters.  If healthy in the playoffs, a formidable opponent.

5. TOR - Great defense, but older players who would probably get a little rest during the regular season to bulk up for the playoffs.  The Atlantic, like I said, is very tough to call.

6. BOS - Wade and a decent, but not great, supporting cast.  A big time scoring big would make this team dangerous.  An interesting mix of offense and defense here, these guys could go either way.

7. PHI - Formidable starting 5, pending injury concerns.  Average, but experienced bench.  Sucks playing in the Atlantic, though.

8. DET - A toss up with MIL in my eyes.  The lineup looks good on paper, but these guys are either injury prone or unproven, and there aren't any character/locker room leader guys to count on.  Combined with not having a floor general at PG, I think this team runs out of gas early, but hangs on for the 8th spot.

9. MIL - Call me crazy, but I like this team.  I think they put enough together, even despite starting Rodney Stuckey at PG, to sneak into the playoffs, but I can't give it to them just yet.  A fun team to watch and play with, I'd bet.

10. IN - A good core and some some young players.  I think Arenas and Rubio play well enough off each other to win some games.  Defense will be a big question mark, though.

11. ATL - Very similar to last year's real life Pacers team, but with less depth and a better PG. I think that makes them better overall, except for having McGrady and Iverson, which could end up being 2 wasted roster spots

12. DC - The big man rotation is pretty weak, and if anyone in the backcourt breaks down, this team is done for.  I think Stephen Jackson can be a leader, but I'm not sold on Sessions being a legit starting PG just yet, or if Gerald Wallace can be a good player on a playoff team.

13. NY - Deron Williams has excelled on teams where he's surrounded with unselfish, talented players who can shoot well.  This isn't one of those teams.  I'd like to know more about how these guys would be playing together before I rank them any higher.

14. Cuba - Very close to Charlotte for the bottom spot.  Some nice young pieces, but not a lot of talent.  More "veteran" presence gives them the nod over the fictional Bobcats.

15. Charlotte - A better team in the future.  Right now, just too young.  A veteran or two would help them in the short term.

[wdleehi]

Instead of asking another GM why you were picked so low, you complain about them.

I know why he ranked me where he did. I had numerous conversations with him via PMs which made it quite plain to me why he ranked me where he did. It's utterly apparent to me. It just seems to be escaping you!!!

Of course, you probably had me ranked so low for the same reason, as I remember you saying how much you liked some of my picks and yet after I question the New York team suddenly you have nothing but bad things to say about my team. Hmmmmm.

Then why did you post what you did?


And do you expect others to know what is in your PMs?


As for your ranking, please look here.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=30950.msg557777#msg557777

If your team was to make it to the playoffs, who would be your main scorer?


Are you worried that your high average scorers have only been high average scorers on weak teams?   When Wallace and Jackson were on top teams (Sac and SA), they were bit roll players.


Are you concerned that the real Przybilla is going to likely lose playtime this year just because the Blazer will want to increase Oden's playtime?

DC

After looking at the depth in the other two divisions, are you a playoff team?


I think all the East teams are better.  I think Chi and Det are better.  I could be persuaded on the 8th spot by a few teams.


Where do you see your team matched up?

And NJ is loaded with playoff winning players that fill rolls.



DC, I am sorry to say, is offensively built around two guys that pad their score totals on bad teams, the top backup C in the league, a shooting PF that has motivational problems, and a PG that has had one good season on a bad team.

All of which you said after having already praised numerous picks of mine and after I criticized your brother.

You know if you had simply told your brother that he had no right trying to play a game that requires you to have internet access when you don't have internet access, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I'm apparently wrong for calling out a GM that took a clearly inferior club(He's been ranked worst by no less than 20 out of 24 voters) and ranked it in front of mine due to personal differences we had in PMs but you, the site moderator, allowed your brother to play a game he had no right playing because he hasn't been an active member here in over a year and doesn't have access to play?

Hey, I've been telling three friends about this game and they are interested.

They are going to join the site tomorrow and then never post ever again. But when the game comes around next year they want me to get teams for each one of them and even though I'm going to put in every single one of their picks and they aren't going to participate in any other way, they expect you to not have a problem with that.

And since you, as a site moderator, have already allowed this, you're not going to have a problem whatsoever, are you WD?

That's it Nick.  It's a vendetta against those who said something about my Brother not being here.


Did you see what I did to poor Toronto for doing that?

2nd in the conference.  


Boy, do I know how to grind an axe!

[nickagneta]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

I have no issues with that type of pick.


I haven't had any issue with any of the picks.


I had an issue with calling out another GM like that.

And I have every right to call his pick into question.

Answer me this do you really feel that a team made up of rookies drafted out of the worst draft class in recent memory, a second year center that is mediocre at best and Caron Butler is better than a team that has


Joel Przybilla, an excellent rebounding(12th in the NBA last year, 2nd best in rebounds per minute) and defensive center

Stephen Jackson, one of 4 players in the NBA last year with 20+ PPG, 6+ APG, and 5+ RPG along with LeBron, CP3, and DWade.

Luis Scola, the 11th leading rebounder in the NBA last year and truly a great playoff performer.

How many teams in this game have two of the top 12 rebounders in the league on their team?

Gerald Wallace, one of the best defensive SFs in the game and athe 22nd best rebounder in the NBA last year.

How many teams in this game have 3 of the top 22 rebounders in the NBA on their team?

Ramon Sessions, a young up and coming star PG who was top 10 in the NBA in assists per minute and assist to turnover ratio.

Anthony Morrow, the NBA's leader in 3 pt FG% at 47%.

heck my backup PF is better than anyone on the Bobcats entire frontline.




Maybe you feel that rating the Boxers below the Bobcats is as questionable as NY below Miami but I think it's a farce.

How many NBA teams have made the playoffs with Jackson or Wallace as the 'Man'?


How many lotto teams have they been the 'Man' on? 


But I must have put you lower then anyone else and the Knicks higher then anyone else.

Last I checked Stephen Jackson was such a major contributor to the Spurs 2003 championship that players like Tim Duncan and coaches like Greg Popovich said there was no way they win that championship without him. He was also the starting SG and 3rd leading scorer on an Indiana team that went to the ECF semis.

Wallace was drafted by playoff team at 19 years old and was playing in the playoffs then. He earned his rep as a defensive specialist and when he went to Charlotte played for an expansion franchise the last five years. Little hard to be on a playoff team when most of your career you've played for the first 5 years of a franchises existence. Minnesota and Memphis took 8 and 9 years respectively to make the playoffs for the first time. Orlando took 5 years and they had had to get multiple #1 picks to pull that off.

Was Elton Brand unable to lead a team just because he was always on sucky teams? What about Chris Bosh, should his ability be penalized because he was always on bad teams? Seems Paul Pierce had a similar label thrown his way for quite a while?

[wdleehi]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

I have no issues with that type of pick.


I haven't had any issue with any of the picks.


I had an issue with calling out another GM like that.

And I have every right to call his pick into question.

Answer me this do you really feel that a team made up of rookies drafted out of the worst draft class in recent memory, a second year center that is mediocre at best and Caron Butler is better than a team that has


Joel Przybilla, an excellent rebounding(12th in the NBA last year, 2nd best in rebounds per minute) and defensive center

Stephen Jackson, one of 4 players in the NBA last year with 20+ PPG, 6+ APG, and 5+ RPG along with LeBron, CP3, and DWade.

Luis Scola, the 11th leading rebounder in the NBA last year and truly a great playoff performer.

How many teams in this game have two of the top 12 rebounders in the league on their team?

Gerald Wallace, one of the best defensive SFs in the game and athe 22nd best rebounder in the NBA last year.

How many teams in this game have 3 of the top 22 rebounders in the NBA on their team?

Ramon Sessions, a young up and coming star PG who was top 10 in the NBA in assists per minute and assist to turnover ratio.

Anthony Morrow, the NBA's leader in 3 pt FG% at 47%.

heck my backup PF is better than anyone on the Bobcats entire frontline.




Maybe you feel that rating the Boxers below the Bobcats is as questionable as NY below Miami but I think it's a farce.

How many NBA teams have made the playoffs with Jackson or Wallace as the 'Man'?


How many lotto teams have they been the 'Man' on? 


But I must have put you lower then anyone else and the Knicks higher then anyone else.

Last I checked Stephen Jackson was such a major contributor to the Spurs 2003 championship that players like Tim Duncan and coaches like Greg Popovich said there was no way they win that championship without him. He was also the starting SG and 3rd leading scorer on an Indiana team that went to the ECF semis.

Wallace was drafted by playoff team at 19 years old and was playing in the playoffs then. He earned his rep as a defensive specialist and when he went to Charlotte played for an expansion franchise the last five years. Little hard to be on a playoff team when most of your career you've played for the first 5 years of a franchises existence. Minnesota and Memphis took 8 and 9 years respectively to make the playoffs for the first time. Orlando took 5 years and they had had to get multiple #1 picks to pull that off.

Was Elton Brand unable to lead a team just because he was always on sucky teams? What about Chris Bosh, should his ability be penalized because he was always on bad teams? Seems Paul Pierce had a similar label thrown his way for quite a while?

So, the Spurs were built around Jackson or was he the SG they dumped in the offseason?

Was Wallace the double digit scorer on those Kings team or did they leave him exposed in the expansion draft?

[Donoghus]

Just a reminder that Eastern Conference voting ends at 11:59.59 tonight.

[nickagneta]

So here was the 911 on the trade:

First I'm surprised no one mentioned that after our very brief spat the other day that j.r. and I could hug and makeup and come up with the blockbuster deal of the late round deals. Just goes to show that we have to realize that although we are playing in a competitive game, we are still all a part of the same Green-loving brotherhood and should always remember that. In that regard, love and TP's go out to Gomesfan as well as j.r.

Second, as I mentioned yesterday, I think there will definitely be a LeBron vote bias when it comes to the open vote. being in the same division I had two options, Future Team or build to beat Lebron. I tried the Future Team route and because of a couple of really bad trades starting off the trade season, I was left with three great pieces, one good piece and very little else. I wasn't winning Future Team.

So, I switched gears and decided to keep the best defensive player and best all around and experienced player of my "Big Three" and trade the rest for a defensive minded team that could still score and would be built around smothering team defense and wings that could shut leBron down so I could win the division.

So here's the team

Starting Team:

Center: Joel Przybilla - he leaves something to be desired offensively but defensively he is a very good, very big inside presence and a good shot blocker. My last line of defense.

Power Forward: Luis Scola - an international star and a defensive, hustling, intelligent player that fills what was easily my previous squad's biggest weakness. In a small ball running lineup, he is an awesome 5 as evidenced by last year's playoff run covering for an injured Yao.

Small Forward: Gerald Wallace - a tremendous defensive SF that has a solid offensive game and is great in transition

Shooting Guard: Stephen Jackson - a third straight athletic, defensive minded SG that can easily flow into a SF game due to his size(6-8) and length. The leader of this club and it's captain, he is one of the extremely very few players in the league to have 20+ PPG, 5+ RPG and 6+ APG.

Point Guard: Raymond Felton - fast, tough, good defender on PGs his size who can run an offense and run the break. He is a lot better and puts up better numbers than most people realize. Good all-around PG that has to work on his shooting.

Sixth Man: Travis Outlaw - who will be used much the same way James Posey was for the 2008 Champion Celtics he is very good defensively, a good rebounder for his position and can score. He has the ability to guard agile PFs and all SFs. He and Jackson and Wallace will drive LeBron nuts as he will never see a moment where he has someone who isn't a plus defender at that position on him.

Back Up Big: Darko Milicic - Darko will be used as the first big off the bench and is versatile enough to guard both centers and power forwards. I'm expecting rebounding and shot blocking from Darko. Any offense will be a plus.

Backup Backcourt: George Hill and Wally Szczerbiak - Hill is a great prospect that showed unbelievable maturity last year in Tony Parker's absence and could be a starter in a year or two. He's that good a prospect. Wally is the savvy vet that gives this team the 3 point threat it needs off the bench.

Others:

Aaron Gray - huge, young center with a knack for establishing good position and being able to convert his down low moves. He is a slow, poor defender.

James Singleton - Long power forward who is young and developing and will give this team solid production when used.

Tyronne Lue - bench warming vet minimum PG that gives the team options

Anthony Carter 3rd PG that gives a good strong veteran presence and is a good passer.

I think in both trades I made I gave up the best talented player but I think the depth and quality of the parts I brought in and kept makes the overall team stronger and gives me one of the better defensive teams not only in the East but maybe the league.

Who is the "go to guy" in the half court?

Enough with go to guys!!!

Why?  He doesn't have anyone at the level of KG in the half court.  And playoff basketball has a lot to do with the half court.

At least this way, he has time to think of an answer or make another move.


(by the way, when are you going to get a SG?)

First Stephen Jackson is a SG and played the SG for years alongside Artest.

Second Scola scores 14 PPG, Jackson 20 PPG, Felton 14 PPG, Wallace 11 PPG, and Outlaw 13 PPG. Five scorers between 13 and 20 PPG. I don't necessarily need a go to scorer if I have balance which I do. Depending on matchups my team can run plays for any one of 4 different players that can score. I don't necessarily need one go-to guy.

The SG question wasn't for you.

Those are nice numbers, but the majority of it comes off of the full court offense or being set up by better offensive players.  You will have no issues during the regular season.

But come playoff time, are you really comfortable with the half court offense lead by Jackson?  

Thanks wd, you have mme making the playoffs. Cool, I must have done something right!! TP4U!!Wahooo. I'm going to the playoffs!!!!

I just remembered this exchange.

Seems you said I would do well in the regular season but have trouble in the playoffs. Now, after some comments I made about NY, I'm 12th in the regular season and not making the playoffs.

[Rondo2287]

Walker Wiggle: What is your thinking behind putting Philly so low?

[Kwhit10]

Yea Walker can you explain your thought process on your rankings?

[RebusRankin]

I'd like to know too.

[bucknersrevenge]

Yea Walker can you explain your thought process on your rankings?

And here we go again...

(hears the sounds of pistols cocking)

[Rondo2287]

Yo buckner did you vote yet?

[bucknersrevenge]

Yo buckner did you vote yet?

not yet. still at work here for about an hr still. i'll get it done when i get home. been reading some of the carnage on the draft thread and here. great reading. this whole thing has turned out just like i thought it would. honestly i thought anonymous voting was better. the live roll call only seems to start more fights then last years did. then again it's been an amusing aside to my day so i'm not complaining too much. seriously though. this was a bad idea.

[Rondo2287]

Wow, All i have to say is wow.  It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Wow, All i have to say is wow.  It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. 

I'd like to see an explanation / justification for that vote.

(And I guess that I am publicly speaking up for Toronto here, like I was accused of earlier, but this just seems a little off the wall.)