2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[dark_lord]

...and people think im a geek bc of my love for star wars   

I think if you look through one of the other many post, there is the "we be geeks" confession. 

74 pages.....uh, i will take ur word for it

[wdleehi]

...and people think im a geek bc of my love for star wars   

I think if you look through one of the other many post, there is the "we be geeks" confession. 

74 pages.....uh, i will take ur word for it

No.  One of the other many, many paged threads. 

[dark_lord]

...and people think im a geek bc of my love for star wars   

I think if you look through one of the other many post, there is the "we be geeks" confession. 

74 pages.....uh, i will take ur word for it

No.  One of the other many, many paged threads. 

i pass and will take ur word

[wdleehi]

...and people think im a geek bc of my love for star wars   

I think if you look through one of the other many post, there is the "we be geeks" confession. 

74 pages.....uh, i will take ur word for it

No.  One of the other many, many paged threads. 

i pass and will take ur word

Really?   


Think of the hours (or days) of fun that could be.   

[nickagneta]

Ok, well there isnt really any point in me trying to change your mind.  But I do think there having him in 12th is questionable.

I'm not looking to change minds. 


I just don't like it when one GM calls out another GM because he feels his team placement was 'questionable' when his own vote had an equally 'questionable' placement.

I've given my explanation of my placement not once but twice and your entire "playoff experience" argument is a crock. Perk was the 5th most important player on his playoff team. Carter wasn't on a playoff team last year. Marvin Williams was maybe the 7th best or most important player on his team and averaged a whole 5 pts and 1.5 rebounds in the playoffs. Sefolosha was on a non playoff team. Nesterovic was last doing something notable in the playoffs 4 years ago. Walton sat on his butt during meaningful minutes in the playoffs for the Lakers. His 3pts per game I'm sure was a difference maker.

New York has one good current player that can play offense, Deron Williams and if he doesn't have players and shooters the quality of Boozer, Okur, Millsap, Brewer, Miles and Korver around him, his stats aren't so pretty. Guess what, his stats aren't going to be that pretty.

New York is getting a lot of bias votes here because Perk is their center. replace Perk with Chris Anderson, Joel Przybilla, Nene, Brad Miller or the like and most people have that team down in the teens. Guaranteed.

If people can look at the collection of players that "New York", ahem, put together and think that collection is better than most of the teams in the East, well, I don't know what to say. They have one really good player who gets great stas by passing to shooters and a collection of rabble almost all of which can't shoot.

As for New York's great size beating up the Atlantic, that's pretty funny. Toronto was a pretty big team in the Atlantic this year who happened to have Nesterovic and a soft player like Krstic(Bargnani). How did that fare for them?

Actually this year's real Toronto team reminds me a lot of the Knicks team that "New York", ahem, put together. Only one real good player. A real good PG. Only Toronto had some talented wings and not so many rookies chosen in the worst draft in recent memory.

Yet the real Raptors were the third worst team in the East.

[wdleehi]

Ok, well there isnt really any point in me trying to change your mind.  But I do think there having him in 12th is questionable.

I'm not looking to change minds. 


I just don't like it when one GM calls out another GM because he feels his team placement was 'questionable' when his own vote had an equally 'questionable' placement.

I've given my explanation of my placement not once but twice and your entire "playoff experience" argument is a crock. Perk was the 5th most important player on his playoff team. Carter wasn't on a playoff team last year. Marvin Williams was maybe the 7th best or most important player on his team and averaged a whole 5 pts and 1.5 rebounds in the playoffs. Sefolosha was on a non playoff team. Nesterovic was last doing something notable in the playoffs 4 years ago. Walton sat on his butt during meaningful minutes in the playoffs for the Lakers. His 3pts per game I'm sure was a difference maker.

New York has one good current player that can play offense, Deron Williams and if he doesn't have players and shooters the quality of Boozer, Okur, Millsap, Brewer, Miles and Korver around him, his stats aren't so pretty. Guess what, his stats aren't going to be that pretty.

New York is getting a lot of bias votes here because Perk is their center. replace Perk with Chris Anderson, Joel Przybilla, Nene, Brad Miller or the like and most people have that team down in the teens. Guaranteed.

If people can look at the collection of players that "New York", ahem, put together and think that collection is better than most of the teams in the East, well, I don't know what to say. They have one really good player who gets great stas by passing to shooters and a collection of rabble almost all of which can't shoot.

As for New York's great size beating up the Atlantic, that's pretty funny. Toronto was a pretty big team in the Atlantic this year who happened to have Nesterovic and a soft player like Krstic(Bargnani). How did that fare for them?

Actually this year's real Toronto team reminds me a lot of the Knicks team that "New York", ahem, put together. Only one real good player. A real good PG. Only Toronto had some talented wings and not so many rookies chosen in the worst draft in recent memory.

Yet the real Raptors were the third worst team in the East.

So in summation.

Boozer, Okur, Millsap, Brewer, Miles and Korver are all bigger offensive threats then Carter? 

Perk (with KG and Powe injured) was the 5th most important player (especially when facing Howard)

Williams (who was injured last year and missed many games, including playoff games) is terrible in the playoffs, even if he averaged 11 points in 28 minutes a game against Boston the post season before.



Of course at this point it is to distract. 


Instead of asking another GM why you were picked so low, you complain about them. 

So I responded about your questionable pick.  (we all saw Roy's question)

[Gainesville Celtic]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

[wdleehi]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

I have no issues with that type of pick.


I haven't had any issue with any of the picks.


I had an issue with calling out another GM like that.

[nickagneta]

Ok, well there isnt really any point in me trying to change your mind.  But I do think there having him in 12th is questionable.

I'm not looking to change minds. 


I just don't like it when one GM calls out another GM because he feels his team placement was 'questionable' when his own vote had an equally 'questionable' placement.

I've given my explanation of my placement not once but twice and your entire "playoff experience" argument is a crock. Perk was the 5th most important player on his playoff team. Carter wasn't on a playoff team last year. Marvin Williams was maybe the 7th best or most important player on his team and averaged a whole 5 pts and 1.5 rebounds in the playoffs. Sefolosha was on a non playoff team. Nesterovic was last doing something notable in the playoffs 4 years ago. Walton sat on his butt during meaningful minutes in the playoffs for the Lakers. His 3pts per game I'm sure was a difference maker.

New York has one good current player that can play offense, Deron Williams and if he doesn't have players and shooters the quality of Boozer, Okur, Millsap, Brewer, Miles and Korver around him, his stats aren't so pretty. Guess what, his stats aren't going to be that pretty.

New York is getting a lot of bias votes here because Perk is their center. replace Perk with Chris Anderson, Joel Przybilla, Nene, Brad Miller or the like and most people have that team down in the teens. Guaranteed.

If people can look at the collection of players that "New York", ahem, put together and think that collection is better than most of the teams in the East, well, I don't know what to say. They have one really good player who gets great stas by passing to shooters and a collection of rabble almost all of which can't shoot.

As for New York's great size beating up the Atlantic, that's pretty funny. Toronto was a pretty big team in the Atlantic this year who happened to have Nesterovic and a soft player like Krstic(Bargnani). How did that fare for them?

Actually this year's real Toronto team reminds me a lot of the Knicks team that "New York", ahem, put together. Only one real good player. A real good PG. Only Toronto had some talented wings and not so many rookies chosen in the worst draft in recent memory.

Yet the real Raptors were the third worst team in the East.

So in summation.

Boozer, Okur, Millsap, Brewer, Miles and Korver are all bigger offensive threats then Carter? 

Perk (with KG and Powe injured) was the 5th most important player (especially when facing Howard)

Williams (who was injured last year and missed many games, including playoff games) is terrible in the playoffs, even if he averaged 11 points in 28 minutes a game against Boston the post season before.



Of course at this point it is to distract. 


Instead of asking another GM why you were picked so low, you complain about them. 

So I responded about your questionable pick.  (we all saw Roy's question)

Boozer, Okur, Millsap, Brewer, Miles and Korver are all bigger offensive threats then Carter?  

Yes. I would rather have those 6 players as a group on my team to pass to than Carter only. Yes. And I think that you will find that just about everybody on this site will say the same thing. If I'm a PG and my choice is to pass to 6 really good shooters and players or one, my guess is to a man, everyone at this site chooses the 6 players.

Perk (with KG and Powe injured) was the 5th most important player (especially when facing Howard)

For the Celtics in the post season, yes. Was he more important than Rondo, Ray and Pierce. No. Was he more important than Baby. Against specifically Howard, probably but not against Chicago and who hit a game winner for the Celtics? So overall, Baby, in this particular year's playoffs was more important than Perk. That makes 5.

Williams (who was injured last year and missed many games, including playoff games) is terrible in the playoffs, even if he averaged 11 points in 28 minutes a game against Boston the post season before.


Yes. When he played, he was awful in the playoffs this year. The year before he scored 11 PPG on 41% shooting while not taking a 3 pointer. meanwhile the player he played against scored 19PPG, had 4.5 RPG, 4.5 APG and shot 45%.

That's pretty awful.

Instead of asking another GM why you were picked so low, you complain about them.

I know why he ranked me where he did. I had numerous conversations with him via PMs which made it quite plain to me why he ranked me where he did. It's utterly apparent to me. It just seems to be escaping you!!!

Of course, you probably had me ranked so low for the same reason, as I remember you saying how much you liked some of my picks and yet after I question the New York team suddenly you have nothing but bad things to say about my team. Hmmmmm.

So I responded about your questionable pick.  (we all saw Roy's question)

And I answered it which should have made it quite less questionable. here, maybe you missed it:

So just wondering how voting irregularities might be handled, if there are any.

Let's just say for example a team, after 20 votes is averaging somewhere in the 11th-12th place for conference and then owner of said team votes his team first in the conference.

Will that vote stand?

Just wondering?

In the same vein, the 14th place vote for New York seems a little low.  Was that due solely to the fact that NY didn't post its own picks / defend its team, or do you not like the players?

Here's my reasoning on New York in 14th.

Deron Williams - excellent PG who needs great players around him to make him great unlike CP3 who is a great player that makes other players great. I hope that makes sense.

Vince Carter - over the hill loser who couldn't win with great players like Kidd, Jefferson and others with him when they and he were in their prime. Today he's a chucker with no heart and little to no defense.

Kendrick Perkins - great defender with little to no offensive game that has chronic shoulder problems and could be an unknown because of them.

Marvin Williams - soft player, soft defender that disapppears not only for quarters at a time but for games at a time.

Nenad Krstic - maybe one of the worst rebounding seven footers ever who has always been a hooribly inefficient scorer. Not a good combo.

Jason Maxiell - think Leon Powe without the ability to put points on the board because he has bad low post moves, can't get to the line and is a horrible FT shooter.

Thabo Sefolosha - another really bad offensive player that is okay defensively but nothing to write home about.

Keyon Dooling, Luke Walton, Rasho Nesterovic, Greg Buckner, DeMarre Carroll, Rodrigue Beaubois, Victor Claver, Toney Douglas  - do I really have to go into detail about how inexperienced, mediocre, or just plain bad any of these players are.

Who on this team is going to score other than Williams and Carter? And once defenses sag off everyone else to play a zone and force Willaims and Carter to try to do everything from the outside they are dead. Williams needs good to great players to rack up his 10-11 APG. With this offensively challenged group, he won't beat out Rondo or Calderon or TJ Ford in the assist per game race.

The team is horribly constructed offensively and really has maybe 2 good defenders in perk and Thabo. After that, they aren't that good defensively either. So they can't score and can't stop teams from scoring and have to play 20 games in the toughest division in the league.

This team tanks bad.

Oh, and their GM can't refute any of this because he hasn't posted a post on this site since August 16, 2008.

[nickagneta]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

I have no issues with that type of pick.


I haven't had any issue with any of the picks.


I had an issue with calling out another GM like that.

And I have every right to call his pick into question.

Answer me this do you really feel that a team made up of rookies drafted out of the worst draft class in recent memory, a second year center that is mediocre at best and Caron Butler is better than a team that has


Joel Przybilla, an excellent rebounding(12th in the NBA last year, 2nd best in rebounds per minute) and defensive center

Stephen Jackson, one of 4 players in the NBA last year with 20+ PPG, 6+ APG, and 5+ RPG along with LeBron, CP3, and DWade.

Luis Scola, the 11th leading rebounder in the NBA last year and truly a great playoff performer.

How many teams in this game have two of the top 12 rebounders in the league on their team?

Gerald Wallace, one of the best defensive SFs in the game and athe 22nd best rebounder in the NBA last year.

How many teams in this game have 3 of the top 22 rebounders in the NBA on their team?

Ramon Sessions, a young up and coming star PG who was top 10 in the NBA in assists per minute and assist to turnover ratio.

Anthony Morrow, the NBA's leader in 3 pt FG% at 47%.

heck my backup PF is better than anyone on the Bobcats entire frontline.




Maybe you feel that rating the Boxers below the Bobcats is as questionable as NY below Miami but I think it's a farce.

[johnnyrondo]

Ok I'm moving myself to this thread where there is no bickering going on... oh wait 

[nickagneta]

Subtract the bickering and what the heck is so entertaining about this game??

[wdleehi]

Instead of asking another GM why you were picked so low, you complain about them.

I know why he ranked me where he did. I had numerous conversations with him via PMs which made it quite plain to me why he ranked me where he did. It's utterly apparent to me. It just seems to be escaping you!!!

Of course, you probably had me ranked so low for the same reason, as I remember you saying how much you liked some of my picks and yet after I question the New York team suddenly you have nothing but bad things to say about my team. Hmmmmm.

Then why did you post what you did?


And do you expect others to know what is in your PMs?


As for your ranking, please look here.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=30950.msg557777#msg557777

If your team was to make it to the playoffs, who would be your main scorer?


Are you worried that your high average scorers have only been high average scorers on weak teams?   When Wallace and Jackson were on top teams (Sac and SA), they were bit roll players.


Are you concerned that the real Przybilla is going to likely lose playtime this year just because the Blazer will want to increase Oden's playtime?

DC

After looking at the depth in the other two divisions, are you a playoff team?


I think all the East teams are better.  I think Chi and Det are better.  I could be persuaded on the 8th spot by a few teams.


Where do you see your team matched up?

And NJ is loaded with playoff winning players that fill rolls.



DC, I am sorry to say, is offensively built around two guys that pad their score totals on bad teams, the top backup C in the league, a shooting PF that has motivational problems, and a PG that has had one good season on a bad team.

[wdleehi]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

I have no issues with that type of pick.


I haven't had any issue with any of the picks.


I had an issue with calling out another GM like that.

And I have every right to call his pick into question.

Answer me this do you really feel that a team made up of rookies drafted out of the worst draft class in recent memory, a second year center that is mediocre at best and Caron Butler is better than a team that has


Joel Przybilla, an excellent rebounding(12th in the NBA last year, 2nd best in rebounds per minute) and defensive center

Stephen Jackson, one of 4 players in the NBA last year with 20+ PPG, 6+ APG, and 5+ RPG along with LeBron, CP3, and DWade.

Luis Scola, the 11th leading rebounder in the NBA last year and truly a great playoff performer.

How many teams in this game have two of the top 12 rebounders in the league on their team?

Gerald Wallace, one of the best defensive SFs in the game and athe 22nd best rebounder in the NBA last year.

How many teams in this game have 3 of the top 22 rebounders in the NBA on their team?

Ramon Sessions, a young up and coming star PG who was top 10 in the NBA in assists per minute and assist to turnover ratio.

Anthony Morrow, the NBA's leader in 3 pt FG% at 47%.

heck my backup PF is better than anyone on the Bobcats entire frontline.




Maybe you feel that rating the Boxers below the Bobcats is as questionable as NY below Miami but I think it's a farce.

How many NBA teams have made the playoffs with Jackson or Wallace as the 'Man'?


How many lotto teams have they been the 'Man' on? 


But I must have put you lower then anyone else and the Knicks higher then anyone else.

[indeedproceed]

FWIW, New York/Washington was probably my toughest decision.

IMO if you choose one over the other it's not like it's like picking a team that no one else thought was good.

I have no issues with that type of pick.


I haven't had any issue with any of the picks.


I had an issue with calling out another GM like that.

And I have every right to call his pick into question.

Answer me this do you really feel that a team made up of rookies drafted out of the worst draft class in recent memory, a second year center that is mediocre at best and Caron Butler is better than a team that has


Joel Przybilla, an excellent rebounding(12th in the NBA last year, 2nd best in rebounds per minute) and defensive center

Stephen Jackson, one of 4 players in the NBA last year with 20+ PPG, 6+ APG, and 5+ RPG along with LeBron, CP3, and DWade.

Luis Scola, the 11th leading rebounder in the NBA last year and truly a great playoff performer.

How many teams in this game have two of the top 12 rebounders in the league on their team?

I do. I've got 2 of the top 6 in rebounds per game, and Biedrins 17.9 beats Pryzbilla's 17.6...also Al Jefferson nabs 14.5 a game, which is tied for 12th.