More on Leon...

[BballTim]

Have you ever seen Leon start?  He could put up 20/10 easy.  That of course would probably depend on who's playing Center.  More than likely he will end up a mostly defensive player putting up 15/8-ish, much like Perk.  The unfortunate thing about Leon is he takes up your PF position (while he's basically a C), and he his size is gonna be a problem against some teams.  However, coming off the bench he is the ideal role player, and on most nights will still give you 15/8 if you give him 20+ minutes (which he can play no problem).

You think he can average 20/10 over a season? How many players in the NBA did that last year? Only 6 players averaged 10 or more RPG! There were only 2 20/10 players: Howard and Bosh.

  You forgot Big Al...

Only played 50 gms. Doesn't qualify.

  You didn't specify a minimum number of games...

[expobear]

just in addition, Bud, you mentioned that you think the Powe supporters under value trade chips, but I think you and the "don't sign Leon" contingent undervalue how good Leon actually is..

like a poster just mentioned, there is a strong possibility that Leon signs elsewhere.

And that is the gist of the whole argument.  How good is Leon Powe?  The Powe supporters think Powe is a very good player with the potential to be a starter capable of putting up a double double every night.  The Powe doubters which includes management see Powe as a hard worker but nothing more than a 15 minute backup sub. My contention has always been that management didn't really see Powe as having much potential. Even if Powe had stayed healthy, I doubt the Celtics were going to keep him if other teams had expressed interest in him.  So, if no teams are interested in an injured Leon, the Celtics may offer a contract, if his knee recovers fully.  Yeah, it's business and it sucks, especially after Leon has really given more to the Celtics than the Celtics ever envisioned when signing him to minimum entry level contracts.

Is that why Doc told Leon that he was going to do everything he could to keep him around?

as for what the pro-Leon people think of him as a player, I can only speak for myself. and I don't think of him as a 20/10 player. I think of him as a PERFECT bench/energy big on a championship caliber team...

he's capable of dropping a 20/10 game here and there, but the one thing he will always do is fight for every rebound. the guy just produces and i think the front office would be taking a very low risk in bringing him back into the fold on the chance that he returns to that player.

Actually, I think Powe can be a 20/10 guy, not just a double double guy, with another team, but perhaps not with the Celtics.  How much value does management place in a high energy player coming off the bench?  Apparently with Powe....not much. As far as Rivers' take on Powe, I think he admires Powe's character and work ethic but still doesn't trust him enough to start him or give him extended minutes. I think this is why Powe was sent packing.....good energy guy off the bench but not good enough to be a starter that's now coming off a career threatening injury.  Management is rolling the dice that nobody will be interested and they can get Powe back after their roster has somewhat been settled. To them,it's a minimal risk but I do think it may come back to haunt them.

I basically agree with you here. If Leon was on MEM for instance, he could have been putting up stats that he wouldn't here. not sure about 20/10, but solid numbers for sure.

and I agree that there is minimal risk is signing Leon right now.  I really wish they would rethink this decision.

Have you ever seen Leon start?  He could put up 20/10 easy.  That of course would probably depend on who's playing Center.  More than likely he will end up a mostly defensive player putting up 15/8-ish, much like Perk.  The unfortunate thing about Leon is he takes up your PF position (while he's basically a C), and he his size is gonna be a problem against some teams.  However, coming off the bench he is the ideal role player, and on most nights will still give you 15/8 if you give him 20+ minutes (which he can play no problem).

You think he can average 20/10 over a season? How many players in the NBA did that last year? Only 6 players averaged 10 or more RPG! There were only 2 20/10 players: Howard and Bosh.

In 17.5 mpg last season he averaged 7.7/4.9. If the majority of minutes are against starting lineups, I'm not sure those number double with the minutes. Add into that the fatigue from playing more minutes, and numbers don't usually double with minutes.

Sure he can put up 20/10 at times if he is healthy again, especially if he is on a bad team. But let's return to reality.

I said he could be a double double man for a lot of teams and perhaps with the Celtics, if he played 30+ minutes per game.  I brought up 20/10 only if he played for a lower tier team in the NBA, which would assume that he averaged about 40 minutes per game.

[winsomme]

umm, no i mean back to him as i expect him to be our backup PG this season...

you realize we are talking about this in terms of a roster spot for Leon, right?

  Yes, I realize that. You're claiming that we have a roster spot for Leon with Eddie as our primary backup pg, even though you know that the Celts don't want to have him as our primary backup pg.

having a roster spot for Leon doesn't depend upon Eddie being our primary backup PG.....as I have pointed out, there is a roster spot for a PG if you feel that the team is going to bring in a different player to be the primary backup PG.

[expobear]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

People don't have to worship the ground that Leon walks in as if he farted flowers to like Leon. Please spare us your lecture of who has the right to "love" Leon or not.

[BballTim]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

  "I loved watching Al Jefferson play but" I saw why they were trading him. Same concept.

[jasail]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

This is utter nonsense.  I love the way Leon plays and you can't tell me I do not.  Some of us have the ability to love a player and understand the needs of a team in relation to a player.  Would I love to see Leon come back? Absolutely.  

To waste a roster spot on a player who may or may not be able to play next season is a poor business decision. It may inhibit them from signing a piece that they need or it may result in them cutting another player (Hudson/Pruitt or TA/Walker/Giddens) before they prove whether they can play a role on this team.  Remember there are only 15 roster spots available.

If Leon is available and healthy come mid-season, and the C's have figured out who fills there needs and have a roster spot is there then bring Leon in. This is the logical way to do things, not the other way around.  

[guava_wrench]

Have you ever seen Leon start?  He could put up 20/10 easy.  That of course would probably depend on who's playing Center.  More than likely he will end up a mostly defensive player putting up 15/8-ish, much like Perk.  The unfortunate thing about Leon is he takes up your PF position (while he's basically a C), and he his size is gonna be a problem against some teams.  However, coming off the bench he is the ideal role player, and on most nights will still give you 15/8 if you give him 20+ minutes (which he can play no problem).

You think he can average 20/10 over a season? How many players in the NBA did that last year? Only 6 players averaged 10 or more RPG! There were only 2 20/10 players: Howard and Bosh.

  You forgot Big Al...

Only played 50 gms. Doesn't qualify.

  You didn't specify a minimum number of games...

Stat averages in every sport always have a standard to qualify. Otherwise you get a guy who got 16 rebounds in the only game he played leading the league in rebounding. There is no need to specify that.

[guava_wrench]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

This is utter nonsense.  I love the way Leon plays and you can't tell me I do not.  Some of us have the ability to love a player and understand the needs of a team in relation to a player.  Would I love to see Leon come back? Absolutely.  

To waste a roster spot on a player who may or may not be able to play next season is a poor business decision. It may inhibit them from signing a piece that they need or it may result in them cutting another player (Hudson/Pruitt or TA/Walker/Giddens) before they prove whether they can play a role on this team.  Remember there are only 15 roster spots available.

If Leon is available and healthy come mid-season, and the C's have figured out who fills there needs and have a roster spot is there then bring Leon in. This is the logical way to do things, not the other way around.  

Ditto on the nonsense comment.

When an employee's contract runs out, you evaluate whether to keep them or not and make the smart business move. That is not treating the person like machinery. That is treating them like an employee.

If Powe wanted more security, I'm sure he could have worked out a deal before last season. He was hoping for a bigger contract this offseason. Things didn't work out the way he wanted. It happens to all of us.

Seems to me Danny fulfilled his ethical obligation. He told Powe to see what he can get from other teams because the Celtics don't currently have him in their plans since they don't want to wait on a recovering player.

[crownsy]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not allowed to like a player and respect the hell out of him unless i put blinders on to the business side of basketball and condemn the boston celtics for not giving him a handout and being a charity organization?

I usually feel you expo, but spare me the  righteous talk about who i can claim to root for and who i can't, it's absolutely none of your business.

[indeedproceed]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not allowed to like a player and respect the hell out of him unless i put blinders on to the business side of basketball and condemn the boston celtics for not giving him a handout and being a charity organization?

I usually feel you expo, but spare me the  righteous talk about who i can claim to root for and who i can't.

I loved my 94 Olds Cutlass Ciera, but when a piston shot through the oil pan and it became more expensive to fix it than to get a new car, I got a new car. I'm not saying that example is an *exact* parallel to whats going on with Powe (I'm totally in favor or resigning him), but those who think Danny made the right choice, its not like they didn't respect Leon. They're just putting more emphasis on the business side, and that's their prerogative. Danny seems to be doing that, and since its not my money or my roster, I can't fault him too much for it.

[Scalablob990]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

I'll be the first to say that this comment ISN'T nonsense..Red would puke at the move DA pulled on Powe. We can easily get rid of the "trash" left on our roster to make a spot for him. With one leg Powe is more consistent then TA and didn't they say Giddens and Walker are competing for the same spot? So one of them automatically is leaving....

[thirstyboots18]

I don't know if Powe can rehab from his injuries, but I wouldn't count him out.  If he rehabs well and Danny feels he can again help the team, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him back in green.  He is a fighter and has overcome much already in his life...sooo...the precedence is there.  Danny will do what he feels is best for the team.

[Chris]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

I'll be the first to say that this comment ISN'T nonsense..Red would puke at the move DA pulled on Powe. We can easily get rid of the "trash" left on our roster to make a spot for him. With one leg Powe is more consistent then TA and didn't they say Giddens and Walker are competing for the same spot? So one of them automatically is leaving....

What did Danny do?  Not extend a qualifying offer that would have all but guaranteed losing Powe next year if he is healthy?  

If they extended the QO, then Powe would immediately accept it, rehab on the C's dime (for more money he would make anywhere else), and then be a UFA next summer.  

All Danny did was not shoot his team in the foot by making a dumb move, and now he is taking his time, and evaluating things before locking Powe up.  

I really don't think Red (who was a shrewd business man himself) would have done it any differently.

[winsomme]

One final comment to the Powe naysayers.  Please don't say "I love Leon but" because you really don't love Leon.  If you really loved Leon, you wouldn't discard him like some used piece of machinery that management wants to replace for business reasons.  You don't do your credibility any service by saying this. 

I'll be the first to say that this comment ISN'T nonsense..Red would puke at the move DA pulled on Powe. We can easily get rid of the "trash" left on our roster to make a spot for him. With one leg Powe is more consistent then TA and didn't they say Giddens and Walker are competing for the same spot? So one of them automatically is leaving....

What did Danny do?  Not extend a qualifying offer that would have all but guaranteed losing Powe next year if he is healthy?  

If they extended the QO, then Powe would immediately accept it, rehab on the C's dime (for more money he would make anywhere else), and then be a UFA next summer.  

All Danny did was not shoot his team in the foot by making a dumb move, and now he is taking his time, and evaluating things before locking Powe up.  

I really don't think Red (who was a shrewd business man himself) would have done it any differently.

we'll see...lots of things could happen as far as Leon is concerned here.

Chris, in your "on the Cs dime" scenario, you are clearly leaving out the possibility that Leon plays this season which considering we could be losing Baby in short order could have been a big help if it happened....again, this season...

you can say, "well maybe we still sign him for less money that the QO"

but two, things:

the QO for Leon was not very much money

and now there's is no way to guarantee that he comes back even if Danny decides to offer him a contract.

the QO works both ways. it could guarantee that Leon gets paid for a season of rehab (good for Leon), but it also would guarantee that if he did come back and play this season it would be for the Cs (good for the Cs)...