More on Leon...

[BudweiserCeltic]

C's signed Patrick O'Bryant on July 11th. I believe the first day you could sign a player was only a few days before that. Not sure of the exact date, but imo signing a guy in the first 3 or 4 days is pretty early.

I don't share your confidence that the C's will end up with both BBD and Sheed

BBD is restricted. If we find ourselves needing a PF we keep him. It's that simple. Sheed option still needs to be explored before signing someone like Powe. Again, this is not the time to do it.

Anyways, about POB, at the time we had plenty of roster spots available. We had a ton of free-agents, we needed to fill our bench. He was available and was cheap.

It's not the same this year... we're quite full, and the rest of the spots available are reserved for Danny to explore real contributing options.

we are not quite full. the players we have under contract are:

Rondo
Ray
PAul
KG
Perk
Scals
TA
Walker
JR
Eddie

that leaves 5 roster spots...

5 Roster spots...

1 of them could potentially be for Sheed.
1 of them could potentially be for Baby who is restricted.
1 of them could potentially be for a backup PG.
1 of them could potentially be for a backup SF.
1 of them at the moment is for Pruitt who deserves a shot at making the team. If not him, Hudson also deserves a shot. If neither makes it, another PG option should be explored... if not that another backup Center option should be explored.

So until Danny has exhausted all HEALTHY players with chances of contributing to this team, there's no space for Powe filling up a roster space. Again, not at THIS moment.

you have two spots on the roster going to 3rd and 4th string PGs. If Hudson and Pruitt aren't able to to contribute to this team this season, then why are they making the team. Aren't they taking up a roster spot?

I laid it out in the other thread, you can sign Leon add TWO backup bigs another backup wing and still have a spot for a 3rd string PG.

you also have two expiring contracts which you could move in Scals and TA.

this whole argument that signing Leon would lock up our roster is not accurate....

2 roster spots for 2nd and 3rd string PGs. We only have Rondo as a PG at the moment, and the team doesn't want to use House in the PG role.

Your two bigs are hopefully BBD and Sheed. We'd still be better served by another HEALTHY big, not Leon. And a center.

Yes, we can move Scal and TA... as I've explained tons of times before, things need to happen to make room for Powe. Until then, he shouldn't be taking up a roster spot. Even so, Scal and TA are more valuable to this team at the moment than Powe.

Again, this is not about not signing Leon. This is about exploring healthy options FIRST.

[Casperian]

Yet the C's had rookies Giddens and Walker, scrubs POB and Pruitt, an extra assistant coach Cassell taking up one third of those valuable spots last year.

...and how did that work out?

[guava_wrench]

Leon is definitely a player worth keeping, but management doesn't want to pay him for basically sitting on the sidelines until February. It's just too bad.

Yet POB and ET sat on the bench their entire stay here, I still do not understand the "full" reason why Danny is so resilient to re-sign Powe to even a minimum contract. Now if Danny brings that bust Robert Swift here i'm going to go bonkers.

They weren't signed to sit on the Bench on purpose!

If Powe heals, we can offer him a contract. Why is that so wrong? Why the rush? We can sign someone to a half-guaranteed contract, and if they don't pan out, cut them during the season at no penalty. Then we can sign Powe. Makes more sense than making a commitment now.

[winsomme]

C's signed Patrick O'Bryant on July 11th. I believe the first day you could sign a player was only a few days before that. Not sure of the exact date, but imo signing a guy in the first 3 or 4 days is pretty early.

I don't share your confidence that the C's will end up with both BBD and Sheed

BBD is restricted. If we find ourselves needing a PF we keep him. It's that simple. Sheed option still needs to be explored before signing someone like Powe. Again, this is not the time to do it.

Anyways, about POB, at the time we had plenty of roster spots available. We had a ton of free-agents, we needed to fill our bench. He was available and was cheap.

It's not the same this year... we're quite full, and the rest of the spots available are reserved for Danny to explore real contributing options.

we are not quite full. the players we have under contract are:

Rondo
Ray
PAul
KG
Perk
Scals
TA
Walker
JR
Eddie

that leaves 5 roster spots...

5 Roster spots...

1 of them could potentially be for Sheed.
1 of them could potentially be for Baby who is restricted.
1 of them could potentially be for a backup PG.
1 of them could potentially be for a backup SF.
1 of them at the moment is for Pruitt who deserves a shot at making the team. If not him, Hudson also deserves a shot. If neither makes it, another PG option should be explored... if not that another backup Center option should be explored.

So until Danny has exhausted all HEALTHY players with chances of contributing to this team, there's no space for Powe filling up a roster space. Again, not at THIS moment.

you have two spots on the roster going to 3rd and 4th string PGs. If Hudson and Pruitt aren't able to to contribute to this team this season, then why are they making the team. Aren't they taking up a roster spot?

I laid it out in the other thread, you can sign Leon add TWO backup bigs another backup wing and still have a spot for a 3rd string PG.

you also have two expiring contracts which you could move in Scals and TA.

this whole argument that signing Leon would lock up our roster is not accurate....

2 roster spots for 2nd and 3rd string PGs. We only have Rondo as a PG at the moment, and the team doesn't want to use House in the PG role.

Eddie House has been our backup PG for two seasons in which we won 60+ games. this idea that he's not our backup PG is ridiculous.

plus calling Gabe Pruitt a PG and not Eddie is TOTALLY inconsistent.

but EVEN if that is the case, then we have 5 FREAKING SGs (6 with Pruitt or Hudson for that matter) on this roster. Please tell me who is the waste of the roster spot, Leon Powe (who has shown that he can contribute in this league) or our 5th string SG!!

this is a totally manufactured argument.

[johnnyrondo]

Yet the C's had rookies Giddens and Walker, scrubs POB and Pruitt, an extra assistant coach Cassell taking up one third of those valuable spots last year.

...and how did that work out?

I think you are trying to argue against me, but I think you just argued for me accidentally. None of those 5 "healthy" players provided anything come the playoffs. If one of those 5 spots had gone to a solid PF, who would've missed the first few months, but been an option come playoff time, we would not have been stuck with Scal as our 6th man. If you are going for it now, a player rehabbing an injury is a better use of the extra roster spots (13-15) than players shuffling to the NDBL.  15 spots allows plenty of room for a great 6th man, solid 7-9th men, 10th-12th men for depth and then you still have 3 extra spots.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Leon is definitely a player worth keeping, but management doesn't want to pay him for basically sitting on the sidelines until February. It's just too bad.

Yet POB and ET sat on the bench their entire stay here, I still do not understand the "full" reason why Danny is so resilient to re-sign Powe to even a minimum contract. Now if Danny brings that bust Robert Swift here i'm going to go bonkers.

They weren't signed to sit on the Bench on purpose!

If Powe heals, we can offer him a contract. Why is that so wrong? Why the rush? We can sign someone to a half-guaranteed contract, and if they don't pan out, cut them during the season at no penalty. Then we can sign Powe. Makes more sense than making a commitment now.

Plus very different circumstances. We had more roster spots available.

Pruitt was our 3rd stringer PG, no problem there. It's not Danny's problem that Doc didn't want to use Walker or Giddens more, he could've certainly used one of them quite a bit more... Walker in particular for the SF position which was quite thin. Even so, they have trade value.

ET, well I didn't like him being signed... still he was healthy and could've played had he been inserted. And let's not undervalue what he did as a teacher in helping Rondo's development.

POB showed a bit of promise during pre-season. It was worth the gamble. He dressed up for games. Wasn't used... a bit understandable, I thought he could've been given a bit more opportunity to play. But again, healthy.

After a year where most of our big men were injured you guys still don't value the importance of health? It's quite beyond me.

Eddie House has been our backup PG for two seasons in which we won 60+ games. this idea that he's not our backup PG is ridiculous.

Not ridiculous at all. This has been expressed COUNTLESS of times. That he played PG for us was out of necessity rather than the ideal situation for him. Having 2 more PG's is in our best interest.

plus calling Gabe Pruitt a PG and not Eddie is TOTALLY inconsistent.

Not inconsistent at all. It's all about roles. I don't think Pruitt is much of a PG, though he has a right to have a shot at making a team. And if he doesn't make it, the roster spot is better served by another backup PG than an injured Powe.

but EVEN if that is the case, then we have 5 FREAKING SGs (6 with Pruitt or Hudson for that matter) on this roster. Please tell me who is the waste of the roster spot, Leon Powe (who has shown that he can contribute in this league) or our 5th string SG!!

Walker is more of SF than a SG. PLUS, Giddens and TA can play SF. Pruitt or Hudson can play some PG. So in all, we have 6 players that can cover the 2/3 position... not a waste at all, good depth. You can add some Scal in there too if needed.

You people seem to be way undervaluing tradeable assets too.

this is a totally manufactured argument.

Nothing is being manufactured here. I only deal with facts.

[Casperian]

Yet the C's had rookies Giddens and Walker, scrubs POB and Pruitt, an extra assistant coach Cassell taking up one third of those valuable spots last year.

...and how did that work out?

I think you are trying to argue against me, but I think you just argued for me accidentally. None of those 5 "healthy" players provided anything come the playoffs. If one of those 5 spots had gone to a solid PF, who would've missed the first few months, but been an option come playoff time, we would not have been stuck with Scal as our 6th man. If you are going for it now, a player rehabbing an injury is a better use of the extra roster spots (13-15) than players shuffling to the NDBL.  15 spots allows plenty of room for a great 6th man, solid 7-9th men, 10th-12th men for depth and then you still have 3 extra spots.

So, you think Ainge didn´t think about that? I think he knows about this possibility, and decided against it.
Why do you assume he´ll can come back for the playoffs? Are you a doctor?
How about trusting the guy who talked with an actual doctor about Leon`s injury, and decided it wasn´t worth the risk?

Leon´s contract has expired. Giddens has not. It´s one thing to pay a salary plus luxury tax or to pay salary, luxury tax and release fee for a guy who actually could contriubute this year just to keep a heavily injured player.

If people would be serious about this stuff, they would put their money where their mouth is, and make a fond for Leon, and not an online petition.

So, how about $1,000 for everyone who wants Leon in green?
If you don´t want to pay it, then I´d assume you´re not serious, and if you can´t, you obviously have no clue about the topic at hand. Yeah, $1,000 is a lot of money, but $1.500.000 that Wyc would have to pay is even more, and that´s only if Leon would accept a minimum contract. Come on, it´s not THAT much, and it´s for a good cause.

[johnnyrondo]

Yet the C's had rookies Giddens and Walker, scrubs POB and Pruitt, an extra assistant coach Cassell taking up one third of those valuable spots last year.

...and how did that work out?

I think you are trying to argue against me, but I think you just argued for me accidentally. None of those 5 "healthy" players provided anything come the playoffs. If one of those 5 spots had gone to a solid PF, who would've missed the first few months, but been an option come playoff time, we would not have been stuck with Scal as our 6th man. If you are going for it now, a player rehabbing an injury is a better use of the extra roster spots (13-15) than players shuffling to the NDBL.  15 spots allows plenty of room for a great 6th man, solid 7-9th men, 10th-12th men for depth and then you still have 3 extra spots.

So, you think Ainge didn´t think about that? I think he knows about this possibility, and decided against it.
Why do you assume he´ll can come back for the playoffs? Are you a doctor?
How about trusting the guy who talked with an actual doctor about Leon`s injury, and decided it wasn´t worth the risk?

Leon´s contract has expired. Giddens has not. It´s one thing to pay a salary plus luxury tax or to pay salary, luxury tax and release fee for a guy who actually could contriubute this year just to keep a heavily injured player.

If people would be serious about this stuff, they would put their money where their mouth is, and make a fond for Leon, and not an online petition.

So, how about $1,000 for everyone who wants Leon in green?
If you don´t want to pay it, then I´d assume you´re not serious, and if you can´t, you obviously have no clue about the topic at hand. I mean, $1,000 is a lot opf money, but so is $1.500.000 million that Wyc would have to pay, and that´s only if Leon would accept a minimum contract. Come on, it´s not THAT much, and it´s for a good cause.

Give me the address to send the grand. 

Danny always makes the right decision. Never a mistake. I heard Leon's surgery went great and his rehab was also going well. When did you talk to Leon's doctor? Give us the inside scoop.


And give me your realistic 15 man roster, with all 15 players being better for our 2 yr window. You've yet to share.

[guava_wrench]

Yet the C's had rookies Giddens and Walker, scrubs POB and Pruitt, an extra assistant coach Cassell taking up one third of those valuable spots last year.

...and how did that work out?

I think you are trying to argue against me, but I think you just argued for me accidentally. None of those 5 "healthy" players provided anything come the playoffs. If one of those 5 spots had gone to a solid PF, who would've missed the first few months, but been an option come playoff time, we would not have been stuck with Scal as our 6th man. If you are going for it now, a player rehabbing an injury is a better use of the extra roster spots (13-15) than players shuffling to the NDBL.  15 spots allows plenty of room for a great 6th man, solid 7-9th men, 10th-12th men for depth and then you still have 3 extra spots.

So, you think Ainge didn´t think about that? I think he knows about this possibility, and decided against it.
Why do you assume he´ll can come back for the playoffs? Are you a doctor?
How about trusting the guy who talked with an actual doctor about Leon`s injury, and decided it wasn´t worth the risk?

Leon´s contract has expired. Giddens has not. It´s one thing to pay a salary plus luxury tax or to pay salary, luxury tax and release fee for a guy who actually could contriubute this year just to keep a heavily injured player.

If people would be serious about this stuff, they would put their money where their mouth is, and make a fond for Leon, and not an online petition.

So, how about $1,000 for everyone who wants Leon in green?
If you don´t want to pay it, then I´d assume you´re not serious, and if you can´t, you obviously have no clue about the topic at hand. I mean, $1,000 is a lot opf money, but so is $1.500.000 million that Wyc would have to pay, and that´s only if Leon would accept a minimum contract. Come on, it´s not THAT much, and it´s for a good cause.

Give me the address to send the grand. 

Danny always makes the right decision. Never a mistake. I heard Leon's surgery went great and his rehab was also going well. When did you talk to Leon's doctor? Give us the inside scoop.


And give me your realistic 15 man roster, with all 15 players being better for our 2 yr window. You've yet to share.

Premature question. Wait for the opening day roster, and then you can judge.

[Casperian]

Give me the address to send the grand. 

Danny always makes the right decision. Never a mistake. I heard Leon's surgery went great and his rehab was also going well. When did you talk to Leon's doctor? Give us the inside scoop.


And give me your realistic 15 man roster, with all 15 players being better for our 2 yr window. You've yet to share.

I was driving the "Danny messed up the Posey extension" bandwagon.
I am NOT a freaking Ainge apologist.

And there is no realistic roster, because there are thousands of variables involved. But unlike the fan on the internet, who is allowed to have a big mouth, Danny has to worry about these variables, and has to settle for a plan that gives him the best chance to succeed, and that´s exactly why he didn´t extend Powe´s contract.

[winsomme]

Leon is definitely a player worth keeping, but management doesn't want to pay him for basically sitting on the sidelines until February. It's just too bad.

Yet POB and ET sat on the bench their entire stay here, I still do not understand the "full" reason why Danny is so resilient to re-sign Powe to even a minimum contract. Now if Danny brings that bust Robert Swift here i'm going to go bonkers.

They weren't signed to sit on the Bench on purpose!

If Powe heals, we can offer him a contract. Why is that so wrong? Why the rush? We can sign someone to a half-guaranteed contract, and if they don't pan out, cut them during the season at no penalty. Then we can sign Powe. Makes more sense than making a commitment now.

Plus very different circumstances. We had more roster spots available.

Pruitt was our 3rd stringer PG, no problem there. It's not Danny's problem that Doc didn't want to use Walker or Giddens more, he could've certainly used one of them quite a bit more... Walker in particular for the SF position which was quite thin. Even so, they have trade value.

ET, well I didn't like him being signed... still he was healthy and could've played had he been inserted. And let's not undervalue what he did as a teacher in helping Rondo's development.

POB showed a bit of promise during pre-season. It was worth the gamble. He dressed up for games. Wasn't used... a bit understandable, I thought he could've been given a bit more opportunity to play. But again, healthy.

After a year where most of our big men were injured you guys still don't value the importance of health? It's quite beyond me.

Eddie House has been our backup PG for two seasons in which we won 60+ games. this idea that he's not our backup PG is ridiculous.

Not ridiculous at all. This has been expressed COUNTLESS of times. That he played PG for us was out of necessity rather than the ideal situation for him. Having 2 more PG's is in our best interest.

plus calling Gabe Pruitt a PG and not Eddie is TOTALLY inconsistent.

Not inconsistent at all. It's all about roles. I don't think Pruitt is much of a PG, though he has a right to have a shot at making a team. And if he doesn't make it, the roster spot is better served by another backup PG than an injured Powe.

but EVEN if that is the case, then we have 5 FREAKING SGs (6 with Pruitt or Hudson for that matter) on this roster. Please tell me who is the waste of the roster spot, Leon Powe (who has shown that he can contribute in this league) or our 5th string SG!!

Walker is more of SF than a SG. PLUS, Giddens and TA can play SF. Pruitt or Hudson can play some PG. So in all, we have 6 players that can cover the 2/3 position... not a waste at all, good depth. You can add some Scal in there too if needed.

You people seem to be way undervaluing tradeable assets too.

this is a totally manufactured argument.

Nothing is being manufactured here. I only deal with facts.

you only deal in facts? your whole post is opinion. (not saying there is anything wrong with that by the way. that's what we are all doing here. giving our opinion.)

Anyway, everybody calls for a backup PG, we bring in a backup PG and guess what? They don't play..

Eddie always ends up playing PG because he has a valuable reliable skill and he can't defend SGs. It has happen in each of the last two seasons.

plus having 6 SGs is not depth it's overkill...if you are so concerned about wasted roster spots, then that's where you should be looking.

any way you slice it, this valuable piece that we should be holding the 15th roster spot open for most likely will not play. the player is going to be sitting in street clothes just like Leon would be. at least in Leon's case we would have the spot filled by a GREAT teammate who was working his behind off to get back on the court and return to the productive player that we have already seen.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The problem is that we're not adding players to become our 15th roster spot player. We're adding players to become rotation players or to add depth where needed.

Wether players play or not is of little importance. That they're available to play is what matters most, if not that, that they have some trade value.

Of the 5 roster spots we've yet to fill, at least 4 of those we're looking for people that will be rotation players. The fifth one is better served for adding depth to either the PG position or a center. If we get Sheed and Baby, there's zero reason to add yet another PF since we also have Scal.

Again, didn't we learn anything this past season about depth and health?

Until we go through preseason, etc. we don't know how the roster will look like and who earned roster spots. Who knows who'll be filling the 13th-15th roster spots, so the assumption that they'll be automatically useless is flawed. Maybe it'll be filled with TA, Scal, and a backup center/Giddens/Walker. No way in this scenario are we better served with keeping Powe. So until this sort of scenario is explored, and others like it, Powe has no place being signed.

[expobear]

Powe is gone unless the Celtics are the only team to offer him by next year.  If Powe was as valuable to the Celtics as most on this board feel he is, then the Celtics would have signed him.  Seeing how much Powe played during his time with the Celtics, 15 minutes as a backup to Garnett, is how management assesses Powe's worth. Now that Powe is damaged goods, there is no way the Celtics are going to offer Powe much of anything for a 15 minute sub.  He's replaceable as far as Ainge is concerned.  Those are the facts.  Now with that being said, this is probably the best option for Powe i.e. to be free to sign with a team that will play him more and prove to the rest of the NBA that he can be a starter in the league.  Nothing comes easy for Powe....hopefully he'll recover fully, sign with a team in need of some low post offense, do well and then, get the long term contract he so richly deserves. I just doubt it's going to be with the Celtics. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

Powe is gone unless the Celtics are the only team to offer him by next year.  If Powe was as valuable to the Celtics as most on this board feel he is, then the Celtics would have signed him.  Seeing how much Powe played during his time with the Celtics, 15 minutes as a backup to Garnett, is how management assesses Powe's worth. Now that Powe is damaged goods, there is no way the Celtics are going to offer Powe much of anything for a 15 minute sub.  He's replaceable as far as Ainge is concerned.  Those are the facts.  Now with that being said, this is probably the best option for Powe i.e. to be free to sign with a team that will play him more and prove to the rest of the NBA that he can be a starter in the league.  Nothing comes easy for Powe....hopefully he'll recover fully, sign with a team in need of some low post offense, do well and then, get the long term contract he so richly deserves. I just doubt it's going to be with the Celtics. 

He's actually better off hoping Ainge's plan to fill the bench doesn't happen, so that they can risk signing Powe. That way they'll retain Powe and his bird rights, so that a sign and trade option is available to him next year.

[yagru]

After reading that article its pretty clear he wont be back. From the little we can gather from the character of players it seemed like Powe is a very loyal right minded person. I dont see him wanting to come back to someone after theyve kicked him to the curb like this. He moved to LA now.. it will be funny if he ends up with the Lakeshow.. what irony that would be. As much as I love the Cs, I really hope Powe goes out and proves Danny wrong on this. yup i said it