FREE POB!

[dark_lord]

Ok maybe you can tell me how many mins BBD had and maybe you can tell me the stats on BBD and POB.

bbd put up poor numbers....but this thread has nothing to do about BBD.  you made a ridiculous claim that POB deserves minutes based on 6:40 of play in scrub time of a nearly 50 point game.  BBD has contributed off and on throughout the last two seasons, and its only his second season, where inconsistency is to be expected from a second round pick.  lets not forget POB was a 9th pick overall!  

I think this part of the thread is exactly about BBD's play. If we had Yao Ming down there at the center position no one on here would be calling for POB to play. If BBD weren't getting worse and worse as his career progresses and his waistline increase then we wouldn't have this discussion. Clearly POB isn't completely ready yet. Neither were a lot of guys who were thrust into their roles because of circumstances. Yes the guy needs to step it up in the desire department. He needs to get tougher. You can however reward the guy with some more minutes in the next few games for the effort and results he put out there on the floor. I think that is as much to reward him as to punish BBD. As much as most of you want to deny it, the guy has easily gained 40 lbs since draft night. You want to rip on POB's desire, but what does it say about a guy who is willing to put in the effort and discipline in order to get signed to an NBA team and make some cash, but once he attained that he stops doing it. You really ought to question BBD's heart just as much as POB's.

In a nutshell though. Look at the stat line. Look at the rebounds the guy is able to get based on his reach. Look at the shots he is able to block. Look at the way KG was supporting the guy and I guarantee will be in his ear right now about what he could do in this league. The time is right to give the guy some run.

as it has been stated previously in this thread, both doc and nellie have publicly stated that pob is lazy,  if he is exhibitting this in practice, he wont and shouldnt, see time during a game.  

First of all I think it is funny how we agree on some guys and disagree on others... TP for your discussions.

I guess my point is that doesn't BBD's refusal to keep his weight under control show laziness as well? I'm sure he hustles around in practice, but it's a lot harder to do the work outside pushing away the plate of chicken wings, and the extra effort burning the waistline. Trust me I know from experience. I hustle my butt off in pick up ball etc, but the extra 30 lbs I have around the middle makes much of that effort a moot point! I'd be more like the player of my twenties if I dropped that weight.

Some guys have to be manipulated a little differently than others. I have 5 kids and know that the strict hard line that works with some of them has the opposite effect on another one. I wonder if his personality would make him respond better given a few more consistent minutes where he could come out of a game feeling like he did last night. THEN once the guy got the taste of playing well and being a part of it he could be given the harder speech.

tp for you as well.

i give bbd alot more wiggle room for the following reasons:
-he has shown positive results, although inconsistently, both last season and this season.

-he is asked to do more this year than last, and often times is playing the 5 spot, as opposed to his natural 4.

-he is only in his second year and was a second round pick.  inconsistency is to be expected at this early stage of his career.

-the guy hustles every minute he is on the court


with POB, im down on him because he is exhibitting the same work ethic as he did with GS, which is why they let him walk.  he is entering his 4th season, and was a 9th overall pick.  i guess i expect more out of him at this point.  especially since he was given a second chance to join a club, and it is with the world champions.  if he cant get motivated to step up in practice with the champs, and kg for that matter, then he may never will.

i guess we can agree to disagree on this one, but like i said, tp for u

[EJPLAYA]

Ok maybe you can tell me how many mins BBD had and maybe you can tell me the stats on BBD and POB.

bbd put up poor numbers....but this thread has nothing to do about BBD.  you made a ridiculous claim that POB deserves minutes based on 6:40 of play in scrub time of a nearly 50 point game.  BBD has contributed off and on throughout the last two seasons, and its only his second season, where inconsistency is to be expected from a second round pick.  lets not forget POB was a 9th pick overall!  

I think this part of the thread is exactly about BBD's play. If we had Yao Ming down there at the center position no one on here would be calling for POB to play. If BBD weren't getting worse and worse as his career progresses and his waistline increase then we wouldn't have this discussion. Clearly POB isn't completely ready yet. Neither were a lot of guys who were thrust into their roles because of circumstances. Yes the guy needs to step it up in the desire department. He needs to get tougher. You can however reward the guy with some more minutes in the next few games for the effort and results he put out there on the floor. I think that is as much to reward him as to punish BBD. As much as most of you want to deny it, the guy has easily gained 40 lbs since draft night. You want to rip on POB's desire, but what does it say about a guy who is willing to put in the effort and discipline in order to get signed to an NBA team and make some cash, but once he attained that he stops doing it. You really ought to question BBD's heart just as much as POB's.

In a nutshell though. Look at the stat line. Look at the rebounds the guy is able to get based on his reach. Look at the shots he is able to block. Look at the way KG was supporting the guy and I guarantee will be in his ear right now about what he could do in this league. The time is right to give the guy some run.

as it has been stated previously in this thread, both doc and nellie have publicly stated that pob is lazy,  if he is exhibitting this in practice, he wont and shouldnt, see time during a game.  

First of all I think it is funny how we agree on some guys and disagree on others... TP for your discussions.

I guess my point is that doesn't BBD's refusal to keep his weight under control show laziness as well? I'm sure he hustles around in practice, but it's a lot harder to do the work outside pushing away the plate of chicken wings, and the extra effort burning the waistline. Trust me I know from experience. I hustle my butt off in pick up ball etc, but the extra 30 lbs I have around the middle makes much of that effort a moot point! I'd be more like the player of my twenties if I dropped that weight.

Some guys have to be manipulated a little differently than others. I have 5 kids and know that the strict hard line that works with some of them has the opposite effect on another one. I wonder if his personality would make him respond better given a few more consistent minutes where he could come out of a game feeling like he did last night. THEN once the guy got the taste of playing well and being a part of it he could be given the harder speech.

tp for you as well.

i give bbd alot more wiggle room for the following reasons:
-he has shown positive results, although inconsistently, both last season and this season.

-he is asked to do more this year than last, and often times is playing the 5 spot, as opposed to his natural 4.

-he is only in his second year and was a second round pick.  inconsistency is to be expected at this early stage of his career.

-the guy hustles every minute he is on the court


with POB, im down on him because he is exhibitting the same work ethic as he did with GS, which is why they let him walk.  he is entering his 4th season, and was a 9th overall pick.  i guess i expect more out of him at this point.  especially since he was given a second chance to join a club, and it is with the world champions.  if he cant get motivated to step up in practice with the champs, and kg for that matter, then he may never will.

i guess we can agree to disagree on this one, but like i said, tp for u

I buy a lot of those arguments. As a player myself who wasn't as "gifted" athletically as others but made up for it in effort and hustle I know how frustrating it was to watch someone who had the skills and abilities that POB does but wastes them due to lack of effort and desire. My thoughts though are only surrounding what would improve this anemic play by the second unit. I think that POB's size and length that HAS translated into reasonable numbers out there on the floor would improve our play at the Center spot. I don't think that BBD has played very well since early last year. He's shooting 36% from the floor at that spot which puts him at 81st in the league at the PF spot, but would put him dead last at the center spot. (POB by the way is at 12th though I know the sample size is small) Those are absolutely HORRIBLE numbers for BBD. His fouls have increased from last year, his other stats have leveled off. I just look at him as well and think that the guy is wasting his ability. He could be a much better player than he is and help this team much more than he is.

[dark_lord]

Ok maybe you can tell me how many mins BBD had and maybe you can tell me the stats on BBD and POB.

bbd put up poor numbers....but this thread has nothing to do about BBD.  you made a ridiculous claim that POB deserves minutes based on 6:40 of play in scrub time of a nearly 50 point game.  BBD has contributed off and on throughout the last two seasons, and its only his second season, where inconsistency is to be expected from a second round pick.  lets not forget POB was a 9th pick overall!  

I think this part of the thread is exactly about BBD's play. If we had Yao Ming down there at the center position no one on here would be calling for POB to play. If BBD weren't getting worse and worse as his career progresses and his waistline increase then we wouldn't have this discussion. Clearly POB isn't completely ready yet. Neither were a lot of guys who were thrust into their roles because of circumstances. Yes the guy needs to step it up in the desire department. He needs to get tougher. You can however reward the guy with some more minutes in the next few games for the effort and results he put out there on the floor. I think that is as much to reward him as to punish BBD. As much as most of you want to deny it, the guy has easily gained 40 lbs since draft night. You want to rip on POB's desire, but what does it say about a guy who is willing to put in the effort and discipline in order to get signed to an NBA team and make some cash, but once he attained that he stops doing it. You really ought to question BBD's heart just as much as POB's.

In a nutshell though. Look at the stat line. Look at the rebounds the guy is able to get based on his reach. Look at the shots he is able to block. Look at the way KG was supporting the guy and I guarantee will be in his ear right now about what he could do in this league. The time is right to give the guy some run.

as it has been stated previously in this thread, both doc and nellie have publicly stated that pob is lazy,  if he is exhibitting this in practice, he wont and shouldnt, see time during a game.  

First of all I think it is funny how we agree on some guys and disagree on others... TP for your discussions.

I guess my point is that doesn't BBD's refusal to keep his weight under control show laziness as well? I'm sure he hustles around in practice, but it's a lot harder to do the work outside pushing away the plate of chicken wings, and the extra effort burning the waistline. Trust me I know from experience. I hustle my butt off in pick up ball etc, but the extra 30 lbs I have around the middle makes much of that effort a moot point! I'd be more like the player of my twenties if I dropped that weight.

Some guys have to be manipulated a little differently than others. I have 5 kids and know that the strict hard line that works with some of them has the opposite effect on another one. I wonder if his personality would make him respond better given a few more consistent minutes where he could come out of a game feeling like he did last night. THEN once the guy got the taste of playing well and being a part of it he could be given the harder speech.

tp for you as well.

i give bbd alot more wiggle room for the following reasons:
-he has shown positive results, although inconsistently, both last season and this season.

-he is asked to do more this year than last, and often times is playing the 5 spot, as opposed to his natural 4.

-he is only in his second year and was a second round pick.  inconsistency is to be expected at this early stage of his career.

-the guy hustles every minute he is on the court


with POB, im down on him because he is exhibitting the same work ethic as he did with GS, which is why they let him walk.  he is entering his 4th season, and was a 9th overall pick.  i guess i expect more out of him at this point.  especially since he was given a second chance to join a club, and it is with the world champions.  if he cant get motivated to step up in practice with the champs, and kg for that matter, then he may never will.

i guess we can agree to disagree on this one, but like i said, tp for u

I buy a lot of those arguments. As a player myself who wasn't as "gifted" athletically as others but made up for it in effort and hustle I know how frustrating it was to watch someone who had the skills and abilities that POB does but wastes them due to lack of effort and desire. My thoughts though are only surrounding what would improve this anemic play by the second unit. I think that POB's size and length that HAS translated into reasonable numbers out there on the floor would improve our play at the Center spot. I don't think that BBD has played very well since early last year. He's shooting 36% from the floor at that spot which puts him at 81st in the league at the PF spot, but would put him dead last at the center spot. (POB by the way is at 12th though I know the sample size is small) Those are absolutely HORRIBLE numbers for BBD. His fouls have increased from last year, his other stats have leveled off. I just look at him as well and think that the guy is wasting his ability. He could be a much better player than he is and help this team much more than he is.

all good points, which i agree with

[Rondo_is_better]

Davis struggles with his weight.

But its a lot harder to deal with a weight issue than it is to put out a little effort when conditioning isn't a problem.

BBD's weight hampers him and often makes him commit stupid fouls, because he doesn't realize his bulk. Still, he hustles 100% of the time, despite carrying around more than his share of extra fat.

POB is thin, and could actually USE some more of that BBD mass on his frame. His conditioning is not an issue, so the fact that he doesn't hustle is just a disgrace. I can understand a mental or physical breakdown during a game due to exhaustion, but for someone to not even try from the second he steps on the floor is unacceptable.

THAT'S why, regardless of our need for size, POB doesn't deserve any minutes.

[Slugger]

Davis struggles with his weight.

But its a lot harder to deal with a weight issue than it is to put out a little effort when conditioning isn't a problem.

BBD's weight hampers him and often makes him commit stupid fouls, because he doesn't realize his bulk. Still, he hustles 100% of the time, despite carrying around more than his share of extra fat.

POB is thin, and could actually USE some more of that BBD mass on his frame. His conditioning is not an issue, so the fact that he doesn't hustle is just a disgrace. I can understand a mental or physical breakdown during a game due to exhaustion, but for someone to not even try from the second he steps on the floor is unacceptable.

THAT'S why, regardless of our need for size, POB doesn't deserve any minutes.

Why is Paddy O'Bryants conditioning not an issue?

He is paper thin and by the looks of it, could not bench press my 2 month old daughter.

His lack of strength also tends to sap energy alot quicker, as he has to exert alot more energy with things like boxing out.

Conditioning appears to be more of an issue with POB than any other Celtic on the roster.

[CoachBo]

You can coach a player into condition.

You cannot coach effort.

[EJPLAYA]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

[crownsy]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

he puts in stats against the 3rd line of opposing teams benches who could care less about playign defense since thier being blown out.

I could have scored 4-8 points in that last quarter vs the kings, they didn't even close out on set shots.

[Chris]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

Comparing the stats POB puts up in garbage time to BBD's stats during the actual game is like comparing a kids highschool stats to a kid who has been playing in the ACC.  You just can't compare them.

Besides, you don't need stats to see that when POB is in there, he is completely lost, and is almost never in the right position.  Considering positional defense is an absolute prerequisite for minutes for this team, he has a way to go.

[EJPLAYA]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

Comparing the stats POB puts up in garbage time to BBD's stats during the actual game is like comparing a kids highschool stats to a kid who has been playing in the ACC.  You just can't compare them.

Besides, you don't need stats to see that when POB is in there, he is completely lost, and is almost never in the right position.  Considering positional defense is an absolute prerequisite for minutes for this team, he has a way to go.

POB was in against Sacramento's second unit. BBD plays 90% of his minutes or more against teams second unit. Do you not think that the second unit of Sacramento was out there trying their hardest to show the coaches something and earn more PT?! Brad Miller may have quit on the game and tried fouling himself out, but that second unit was not quitting.

As far as being lost, yes he is often in the wrong position. He does seem lost at times. So does BBD for that matter which is why he is fouling so much. Yet once again, even though he is lost out there, he still seems to put numbers up. You can't dismiss the fact that POB is a better shooter, better post player, better rebounder, better shot blocker, than BBD. That is a lot of categories to be better in.

[crownsy]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

Comparing the stats POB puts up in garbage time to BBD's stats during the actual game is like comparing a kids highschool stats to a kid who has been playing in the ACC.  You just can't compare them.

Besides, you don't need stats to see that when POB is in there, he is completely lost, and is almost never in the right position.  Considering positional defense is an absolute prerequisite for minutes for this team, he has a way to go.

POB was in against Sacramento's second unit. BBD plays 90% of his minutes or more against teams second unit. Do you not think that the second unit of Sacramento was out there trying their hardest to show the coaches something and earn more PT?! Brad Miller may have quit on the game and tried fouling himself out, but that second unit was not quitting.

As far as being lost, yes he is often in the wrong position. He does seem lost at times. So does BBD for that matter which is why he is fouling so much. Yet once again, even though he is lost out there, he still seems to put numbers up. You can't dismiss the fact that POB is a better shooter, better post player, better rebounder, better shot blocker, than BBD. That is a lot of categories to be better in.

EJ, come on now man. you watched that game, SAC quit in the third quarter. At one point thier was a fast break and thier PG had to pull up because none of the other kings even left thier own half of the court. they then procceded to jog up slowly once they realized he wasen't going to just jack the ball up.

they weren't even trying to play defense in the 4th, eddie house was so wide open every time he caught the ball he could have gotten a hotdog and then shot the ball.

Me and you could have scored 8 points a piece vs that effort. They were down 40 and wanted to go home.

[Chris]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

Comparing the stats POB puts up in garbage time to BBD's stats during the actual game is like comparing a kids highschool stats to a kid who has been playing in the ACC.  You just can't compare them.

Besides, you don't need stats to see that when POB is in there, he is completely lost, and is almost never in the right position.  Considering positional defense is an absolute prerequisite for minutes for this team, he has a way to go.

POB was in against Sacramento's second unit. BBD plays 90% of his minutes or more against teams second unit. Do you not think that the second unit of Sacramento was out there trying their hardest to show the coaches something and earn more PT?! Brad Miller may have quit on the game and tried fouling himself out, but that second unit was not quitting.

As far as being lost, yes he is often in the wrong position. He does seem lost at times. So does BBD for that matter which is why he is fouling so much. Yet once again, even though he is lost out there, he still seems to put numbers up. You can't dismiss the fact that POB is a better shooter, better post player, better rebounder, better shot blocker, than BBD. That is a lot of categories to be better in.

Well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on Davis, since I feel strongly that Davis is the best positional defender on the C's bench, and its not really close. 

As for POB being better than Davis in all of those categories, fine (although I don't completely agree, but it doesn't matter), but he is not a good basketball player.  If he doesn't know where to go, cannot maintain position, and does not play hard, he cannot play meaningful minutes on a top NBA team. 

Not to mention, playing against the Kings second unit is like playing against a normal teams 4th unit...especially on that night.

[arctic 3.0]

pob's main weakness is his weakness. he simply has trouble holding his own against stronger centers.
how about giving him a little run alongside perk when KG sits.
i'm not suggesting he be converted to a 4 but playing alongside perk would allow him to d up against the opposing teams smaller big. 
anyway i don't see it would hurt and it could give him enough of a taste and boost in confidence to keep him working on his game and conditioning.

he is a heck of a shot blocker, marginal improvements in other aspects of his game will be enough to keep him employed.

[EJPLAYA]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

Comparing the stats POB puts up in garbage time to BBD's stats during the actual game is like comparing a kids highschool stats to a kid who has been playing in the ACC.  You just can't compare them.

Besides, you don't need stats to see that when POB is in there, he is completely lost, and is almost never in the right position.  Considering positional defense is an absolute prerequisite for minutes for this team, he has a way to go.

POB was in against Sacramento's second unit. BBD plays 90% of his minutes or more against teams second unit. Do you not think that the second unit of Sacramento was out there trying their hardest to show the coaches something and earn more PT?! Brad Miller may have quit on the game and tried fouling himself out, but that second unit was not quitting.

As far as being lost, yes he is often in the wrong position. He does seem lost at times. So does BBD for that matter which is why he is fouling so much. Yet once again, even though he is lost out there, he still seems to put numbers up. You can't dismiss the fact that POB is a better shooter, better post player, better rebounder, better shot blocker, than BBD. That is a lot of categories to be better in.

Well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on Davis, since I feel strongly that Davis is the best positional defender on the C's bench, and its not really close. 

As for POB being better than Davis in all of those categories, fine (although I don't completely agree, but it doesn't matter), but he is not a good basketball player.  If he doesn't know where to go, cannot maintain position, and does not play hard, he cannot play meaningful minutes on a top NBA team. 

Not to mention, playing against the Kings second unit is like playing against a normal teams 4th unit...especially on that night.

Jason Thompson sure wasn't quitting. Douby sure wasn't quitting, Donte Green wasn't quitting. Come on guys. Just because the starters quit and wanted to go home doesn't mean their bench did. They were hustling and giving it their all. The guy can only play against the guys that are out there on the floor. I am not saying he would be as successful against the Cavs or Lakers bench, but BBD was also playing against those same scrubs and looked like garbage.

BTW Chris, which of those areas I mentioned POB had better skills in do you disagree with?  (I am being serious, not sarcastic)I think there is a huge difference in every one of those.

[crownsy]

Yet with all of these very accurate points, when he is in there he puts stats in the columns. BBD too often these days does not. Why not give the kid some more run and see what he can do...

Comparing the stats POB puts up in garbage time to BBD's stats during the actual game is like comparing a kids highschool stats to a kid who has been playing in the ACC.  You just can't compare them.

Besides, you don't need stats to see that when POB is in there, he is completely lost, and is almost never in the right position.  Considering positional defense is an absolute prerequisite for minutes for this team, he has a way to go.

POB was in against Sacramento's second unit. BBD plays 90% of his minutes or more against teams second unit. Do you not think that the second unit of Sacramento was out there trying their hardest to show the coaches something and earn more PT?! Brad Miller may have quit on the game and tried fouling himself out, but that second unit was not quitting.

As far as being lost, yes he is often in the wrong position. He does seem lost at times. So does BBD for that matter which is why he is fouling so much. Yet once again, even though he is lost out there, he still seems to put numbers up. You can't dismiss the fact that POB is a better shooter, better post player, better rebounder, better shot blocker, than BBD. That is a lot of categories to be better in.

Well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on Davis, since I feel strongly that Davis is the best positional defender on the C's bench, and its not really close. 

As for POB being better than Davis in all of those categories, fine (although I don't completely agree, but it doesn't matter), but he is not a good basketball player.  If he doesn't know where to go, cannot maintain position, and does not play hard, he cannot play meaningful minutes on a top NBA team. 

Not to mention, playing against the Kings second unit is like playing against a normal teams 4th unit...especially on that night.

Jason Thompson sure wasn't quitting. Douby sure wasn't quitting, Donte Green wasn't quitting. Come on guys. Just because the starters quit and wanted to go home doesn't mean their bench did. They were hustling and giving it their all. The guy can only play against the guys that are out there on the floor. I am not saying he would be as successful against the Cavs or Lakers bench, but BBD was also playing against those same scrubs and looked like garbage.

BTW Chris, which of those areas I mentioned POB had better skills in do you disagree with?  (I am being serious, not sarcastic)I think there is a huge difference in every one of those.

If you say so EJ, that bench quit just as badly as the starters. they wer eone pass, jack a shot up and go wait for the celtics shot all fouth quarter.

that was the defintion of garbage time.