Posey to the Hornets (Boston Globe Reporting)

[winsomme]

I want to make this clear though.  I hope nobody believes this is Ainge being "cheap" or the owners being "cheap".  This isn't about lowballing Posey.  It's not about that.  Obviously they felt that the MLE would be better spent elsewhere and believed that giving Posey 4 years would be an unintelligent decision.   This team has some holes that still need to be filled and the MLE is one of the only pieces of flexibility we currently have to fill those needs.  Hopefully now we can bring in a suitable replacement or split the MLE to some players who can help us in our quest for #18.

If anyone is freaking out right now, I suggest you just take a step back and wait until we see what Ainge does with the MLE.  Posey's become a little overrated by most people here.  We'll be fine.

i definitely question the "future flexibility" rationale. the only way this makes sense is if we bring in someone who plays as well as Posey. if not, then we have lessened our chances of repeating. a trio like GPA just doesn't come along that often and they aren't going to be playing at this level for that many more years....

i definitely would rather have one or two more Titles than a team that stays competitive longer because of the "flexibilty" that not signing Posey for four years affords us....

2-3 Titles is much much better than 10 years of really good teams that don't win Titles (just ask Utah or Phoenix)....

i actually don't understand why some people are so afraid to be bad. why not get as much out of GPA as we can and then be crappy again? that's the natural ebb and flow of the NBA...

i don't think the measuring stick of a franchise or a front office is never being awful, it's not STAYING awful. i actually liked watching Danny build this team up and seeing players like Big Al and Rondo and Perk, etc....improve and mature. it's a part of the game that i like.

anyway, let's see how Danny responds....

Winsome, it's not just about future flexability.   PJ Brown retired, Eddie House is questionable, Tony Allen seems gone, Sam Cassell was a bust...   we need a backup big man, we need a backup point guard and we need someone who can play solid defense off the bench.   I don't agree with people who think giving all our alloted money to James Posey will suddenly put this team in the best position for #18.   I think passing on Posey was the best long-term and possibly short-term move as well. Lets wait to see how we use that MLE.   Seriously... Posey is overrated right now.  I thought the full MLE was too much to begin with.  I liked the initial offer of giving him 4 years at his non-bird rights (starting at 3.8 million) and using that MLE to sign some additional help.  Unfortunately Posey demanded more.  And this was probably the best decision for the Celtics.   The 2008-09 team was going to be different no matter what happened with Posey... but now we have a shot at maybe bringing in players who can help our quest at #18.  

i think future flexibility is the main reason. the reports are that we offered him the full MLE for at least TWO years.....so if that is that case, then the reason we didn't get him was not wanting to offer the long term deal.....not being able to fill out this roster THIS season.

and i wouldn't be surprised if PJ came out of retirement just like he did last season for another run at a Title. i don't think other than what Posey did on this team there are any other significant holes.

[BringToughnessBack]

Congrats to Posey..I thought it would take 4 and that is what he got..I have a feeling that Danny's plan B has really been his plan A all along..we will see. Kind of like Theo in 2004...they both drew the line in the sand and hopefully it will pay dividends for us as well. Plenty of time for us to fill out our roster. It is not like we lost Bird, McHale or Parrish..just a really good supporting cast member.

TY Posey for helping us win one this year as an integral supporting part..here is hoping we see you again next June and Not Kobe!

[winsomme]

I'm fine with this for some reason...we need cap flexibility for 2010.

We're not having cap flexibility for 2010. This has nothing to do with cap flexibility.

what do you think the reasoning behind it is? being willing to offer two or three years of the full MLE but not wanting to go to four...

[cordobes]

I'm fine with this for some reason...we need cap flexibility for 2010.

We're not having cap flexibility for 2010. This has nothing to do with cap flexibility.

what do you think the reasoning behind it is? being willing to offer two or three years of the full MLE but not wanting to go to four...

Ainge was never interested in keeping Posey, that's the only reasonable explanation. Therefore, made him an offer that was going to be rejected.

[LarBrd33]

I'm cool with this.  4 years is too much for him.   He's become rather overrated by people on this board and obviously he's overrated by a lot of the league as well.  Kudos to Ainge for sticking with it.  Now we can use part of that MLE to sign Bill Walker to a 3 year deal (preserving his bird rights in the event he "breaks out") and use the rest to split to a couple players who can help us next season. 

Tommy Point!

Posey was a marvel to watch and was just what a new and talented team needed to get where we got.  There were plenty of games we looked sloppy and Posey was the only one taking control of the garbage truck.  we will be a more experienced team next year and shouldn't need a crutch like that as much. 

Hey with the big three, you have to make sacrifices elsewhere.  Ainge will bring in competitors. 

Go Celts!!

I'd say anti-Tommy Point.  Not to be mean, but what does signing Bill Walker for three years do?  Even if he is the next Vince Carter, he's most likely not going to get there until the Big Three are too old for us to contend.  And while we could split the midlevel, remember, this isn't football where there's a 53 man roster.  We can only play 5 players at once and only need 8-9 in the playoffs.  Thus, signing a bunch of average players really doesn't help that much. 

I'd much rather them try to turn the midlevel into an impact player.  Who that is, I don't know. 

Jon, the Bill Walker thing is just a tiny fraction of a part of it.  We're talking about chump change...500k a year.   But the only way we can give him 3 years is by using part of the MLE to sign him to that chump-change contract.  The alternative is signing him for 1-2 years and then watching him become a free agent.  Not a big deal, really... but if the player ends up being a Gilbert Arenas or something, we'd be in danger of total losing him if we didn't lock him up for 3 years right away.

The point is, everyone has Posey overrated.  The team has more important needs right now.  They gave him an honest offer (2 years), but I think Posey did the Celtics a favor by demanding 4.  Now they can use that MLE to strengthen the team for now and the future and fill some of our pressing needs.  

[johnnyrondo]

Congrats to Posey..I thought it would take 4 and that is what he got..I have a feeling that Danny's plan B has really been his plan A all along..we will see. Kind of like Theo in 2004...they both drew the line in the sand and hopefully it will pay dividends for us as well.

Like when Theo let Cabrera and Lowe go, so that he could sign Renteria and Clement? Did that help us repeat? Theo learned from his mistake at least and kept the 2007 champs together. I thought Ainge was learning from his mistakes (like firing Dick Harter and disregarding defense to hiring Thibs and seeing how defense pays). Or trying to be a brain doctor and signing guys like Googs and Scal to making the obvious signings of House, posey, and PJ. But with the O'Blount signing, not offering 3 yrs to Posey, or 2 to House, I don't see tht Ainge has turned the corner. Ainge has no problem biding against no one and signing Scal for 5 yrs or giving Blount 6 yrs or bringing in long term contracts Wally and Raef, but offering Posey and House 3 and 2 yrs respectively to compete once you finally have a good team? No that's too much.

[jay_jay54]

All's I can say is:

"RAT FARTS"

ditto...sad day in my house.

[Redz]

All's I can say is:

"RAT FARTS"

ditto...sad day in my house.

jay_jay, I really appreciate that out of 5 pages of comments you found mine the most insightful

[LarBrd33]

Congrats to Posey..I thought it would take 4 and that is what he got..I have a feeling that Danny's plan B has really been his plan A all along..we will see. Kind of like Theo in 2004...they both drew the line in the sand and hopefully it will pay dividends for us as well.

Like when Theo let Cabrera and Lowe go, so that he could sign Renteria and Clement? Did that help us repeat? Theo learned from his mistake at least and kept the 2007 champs together. I thought Ainge was learning from his mistakes (like firing Dick Harter and disregarding defense to hiring Thibs and seeing how defense pays). Or trying to be a brain doctor and signing guys like Googs and Scal to making the obvious signings of House, posey, and PJ. But with the O'Blount signing, not offering 3 yrs to Posey, or 2 to House, I don't see tht Ainge has turned the corner. Ainge has no problem biding against no one and signing Scal for 5 yrs or giving Blount 6 yrs or bringing in long term contracts Wally and Raef, but offering Posey and House 3 and 2 yrs respectively to compete once you finally have a good team? No that's too much.

The big 3 is this team.  Perk and Rondo are the other starters.   The bench is the big question.  Last year we made the most of what was left of NBA scraps by bringing in Pollard, House and Posey.  Mid-season we made the most of buyouts by bringing in Sam Cassell ... and eventually convincing PJ Brown to come out of retirement.   Ainge was basically throwing together pieces to fit around the starting 5 and it ended up working.  

Well now Posey wanted 4 years 25 million in a deal that would hamper us for the future AND today.   Again, this team needs needs a backup big man, a backup point guard, some defense off the bench... and Ainge clearly felt that our best chance of filling those gaps was using the MLE.  We'll see what he does with the MLE now that he has more options and flexibility.  We don't have to rely on scraps anymore, because it's still early in the free agency period and there are several directions we can go to fill this team's needs.   I'm not worried.  I'm not in a state of panic.  And neither should anyone else on this board.  If we head into the season without signing anyone else... feel free to freak out.  But that's clearly not happening.  Ainge already basically mentioned that he has offers out and he's just waiting to see what happens.  Now that Posey is out of the picture, he can be more aggressive in his attempts to fill this team out (not just relying on vet minimums).

[jay_jay54]

All's I can say is:

"RAT FARTS"

ditto...sad day in my house.

jay_jay, I really appreciate that out of 5 pages of comments you found mine the most insightful

Redz,i just found out when i got home,and was in shock a little,and couldn't find any words to write(any appropiate for CB)at the moment,your post was the closest to what i was thinking/feeling.

[winsomme]

I'm fine with this for some reason...we need cap flexibility for 2010.

We're not having cap flexibility for 2010. This has nothing to do with cap flexibility.

what do you think the reasoning behind it is? being willing to offer two or three years of the full MLE but not wanting to go to four...

Ainge was never interested in keeping Posey, that's the only reasonable explanation. Therefore, made him an offer that was going to be rejected.

so he could do what instead.....?

you're saying he would have been upset is Posey took his offer?

i don't understand your angle here.

[paintitgreen]

Best of luck to PoZe. Loved that dude, wish he could have stayed, but them's the breaks. Hopefully Danny can pull through with some good free agent signings this summer. I did think he lowballed Posey a lot during this (I think he's doing the same with House), but I have no problem with him not offering 4 years at the MLE, provided he can do something better with it. And I have no problem with Posey taking $25 million. That's a lot better than $12.5. Can't blame him. And I'm glad, like others, that it's to the Hornets, both because I don't hate the Hornets, and I don't think he helps the Hornets as much as he would help some other teams.

Here's another thought - this team was originally thought to be on a 2-year track to the Finals. We were supposed to have a better team in 08-09 than in 07-08, when they were supposed to be learning how to play with each other. But with the title last year, maybe priorities shifted, and we're again going with a 2 year plan: spend one year developing young backups (Pruitt, Giddens, Walker, Powe, Davis, O'Bryant) and removing veterans who would diminish their playing time and cost considerably more (Posey, House, Cassell, Brown). Force those young guys to become rotation-worthy players with a sink or swim philosophy. Then, in 09-10, bring in one or two more veteran free agents, if necessary, to push again. If the young players develop quicker and can compete for a title this year, all the better.

Now, I'm not saying that's Danny's goal, or what I would do, but it's another alternative as to what we're thinking for next year. Or, maybe it is just that Danny didn't want to give that much money to James Posey. So be it.

Big game James will be missed. I hope not too much.

[The Walker Wiggle]

“The Boston Celtics have reached a two year deal with former lottery pick Patrick O’Bryant.”

A swing and a miss by Ainge…

“James Posey has agreed to a four-year deal with the New Orleans Hornets, the Boston Celtics confirmed Wednesday.”

Ainge takes one looking…

Danny’s behind in the count 0-2, here’s hoping he doesn’t strike out.

[winsomme]

Congrats to Posey..I thought it would take 4 and that is what he got..I have a feeling that Danny's plan B has really been his plan A all along..we will see. Kind of like Theo in 2004...they both drew the line in the sand and hopefully it will pay dividends for us as well.

Like when Theo let Cabrera and Lowe go, so that he could sign Renteria and Clement? Did that help us repeat? Theo learned from his mistake at least and kept the 2007 champs together. I thought Ainge was learning from his mistakes (like firing Dick Harter and disregarding defense to hiring Thibs and seeing how defense pays). Or trying to be a brain doctor and signing guys like Googs and Scal to making the obvious signings of House, posey, and PJ. But with the O'Blount signing, not offering 3 yrs to Posey, or 2 to House, I don't see tht Ainge has turned the corner. Ainge has no problem biding against no one and signing Scal for 5 yrs or giving Blount 6 yrs or bringing in long term contracts Wally and Raef, but offering Posey and House 3 and 2 yrs respectively to compete once you finally have a good team? No that's too much.

The big 3 is this team.  Perk and Rondo are the other starters.   The bench is the big question.  Last year we made the most of what was left of NBA scraps by bringing in Pollard, House and Posey.  Mid-season we made the most of buyouts by bringing in Sam Cassell ... and eventually convincing PJ Brown to come out of retirement.   Ainge was basically throwing together pieces to fit around the starting 5 and it ended up working.  

Well now Posey wanted 4 years 25 million in a deal that would hamper us for the future AND today.   Again, this team needs needs a backup big man, a backup point guard, some defense off the bench... and Ainge clearly felt that our best chance of filling those gaps was using the MLE.  We'll see what he does with the MLE now that he has more options and flexibility.  We don't have to rely on scraps anymore, because it's still early in the free agency period and there are several directions we can go to fill this team's needs.   I'm not worried.  I'm not in a state of panic.  And neither should anyone else on this board.  If we head into the season without signing anyone else... feel free to freak out.  But that's clearly not happening.  Ainge already basically mentioned that he has offers out and he's just waiting to see what happens.  Now that Posey is out of the picture, he can be more aggressive in his attempts to fill this team out (not just relying on vet minimums).

but we offered him the MLE for this season......how does that jive with this having anything to do with next season?

[johnnyrondo]

Congrats to Posey..I thought it would take 4 and that is what he got..I have a feeling that Danny's plan B has really been his plan A all along..we will see. Kind of like Theo in 2004...they both drew the line in the sand and hopefully it will pay dividends for us as well.

Like when Theo let Cabrera and Lowe go, so that he could sign Renteria and Clement? Did that help us repeat? Theo learned from his mistake at least and kept the 2007 champs together. I thought Ainge was learning from his mistakes (like firing Dick Harter and disregarding defense to hiring Thibs and seeing how defense pays). Or trying to be a brain doctor and signing guys like Googs and Scal to making the obvious signings of House, posey, and PJ. But with the O'Blount signing, not offering 3 yrs to Posey, or 2 to House, I don't see tht Ainge has turned the corner. Ainge has no problem biding against no one and signing Scal for 5 yrs or giving Blount 6 yrs or bringing in long term contracts Wally and Raef, but offering Posey and House 3 and 2 yrs respectively to compete once you finally have a good team? No that's too much.

The big 3 is this team.  Perk and Rondo are the other starters.   The bench is the big question.  Last year we made the most of what was left of NBA scraps by bringing in Pollard, House and Posey.  Mid-season we made the most of buyouts by bringing in Sam Cassell ... and eventually convincing PJ Brown to come out of retirement.   Ainge was basically throwing together pieces to fit around the starting 5 and it ended up working.  

Well now Posey wanted 4 years 25 million in a deal that would hamper us for the future AND today.   Again, this team needs needs a backup big man, a backup point guard, some defense off the bench... and Ainge clearly felt that our best chance of filling those gaps was using the MLE.  We'll see what he does with the MLE now that he has more options and flexibility.  We don't have to rely on scraps anymore, because it's still early in the free agency period and there are several directions we can go to fill this team's needs.   I'm not worried.  I'm not in a state of panic.  And neither should anyone else on this board.  If we head into the season without signing anyone else... feel free to freak out.  But that's clearly not happening.  Ainge already basically mentioned that he has offers out and he's just waiting to see what happens.  Now that Posey is out of the picture, he can be more aggressive in his attempts to fill this team out (not just relying on vet minimums).

Ainge has said he's NOT signing another big. O'Blount is it. And he doesn't want to go longer than 1 yr on a backup pg. Why do people think he's saving this money to spend on others? He's said as much. This nonmove wasn't about getting someone else or salary cap flexibility. It was about Wyc wanting better profits. Basketball wise, I wouldn't have given Posey 5 yrs, but not offering 3? That's ridiculous. This wasn't a basketball decision. Wyc's trying to buy the LA Kings.