BBD- Which size player will come back from the Offseason?!

[BballTim]

Isn´t it depressing how an undersized, overweight and lazy guy with no mid-range game made it to the NBA, and we didn´t? 

And if that wasn`t enough, he already has a ring and a productive finals appearance.

I think we can`t argue about his condition, since that would require more scientific facts.

yeah, we're not gonna get anywhere on the amount of weight question...which is fair. i mean, i think that he only needs to drop 10-15 lbs, but i don't KNOW that....it's just my opinion...

but i just am really high on BBD as a prospect in general - aside from the weight question - and am surprised when people suggest that he is in any way close to being out of the league.

  Whether he needs to drop 10-15 lbs or 25-30 lbs is less important than the fact that he, by all accounts, needs to lose weight and hasn't done so in the year he's been on the Celts. And he hit about 31% this season and less than 27% of them in the playoffs. His stats were a little better before the all-star break than they were after, so he really didn't improve at all as the season went on. If we get a decent backup center and he comes back in the same shape he's in now he'll be lucky to get 10 minutes a game.

[Barnabas]

"i think the chances of him ever having to go play ball in Europe is zero."

He's got one more year to show that he can play in the NBA.  If that doesn't work out, he can just play Eurobasketball or take up a career in Sumo wrestling.  

Ok, yeah, it is hard to judge someone's physical fitness simply just by watching them on TV.  But I have to tell you, watching BBD reminded me of that guy who used to play for the Rockets 20+ years ago.  Do you recall that guy they called "The Whopper"?  Billy Pultz(sp?) was his name, I think.  Those are two guys who just do not look like professional basketball players.  Except The Whopper was actually a pretty decent player and did a good job playing with Moses Malone.  The Whopper actually had some game.  I have not seen that from BBD, as he seems like an opportunistic scorer.  

And yeah, I'm afraid I have to lean towards the camp who believes BBD Will be playing his last year in the NBA next year.  

[winsomme]

Isn´t it depressing how an undersized, overweight and lazy guy with no mid-range game made it to the NBA, and we didn´t? 

And if that wasn`t enough, he already has a ring and a productive finals appearance.

I think we can`t argue about his condition, since that would require more scientific facts.

yeah, we're not gonna get anywhere on the amount of weight question...which is fair. i mean, i think that he only needs to drop 10-15 lbs, but i don't KNOW that....it's just my opinion...

but i just am really high on BBD as a prospect in general - aside from the weight question - and am surprised when people suggest that he is in any way close to being out of the league.

  Whether he needs to drop 10-15 lbs or 25-30 lbs is less important than the fact that he, by all accounts, needs to lose weight and hasn't done so in the year he's been on the Celts. And he hit about 31% this season and less than 27% of them in the playoffs. His stats were a little better before the all-star break than they were after, so he really didn't improve at all as the season went on. If we get a decent backup center and he comes back in the same shape he's in now he'll be lucky to get 10 minutes a game.

well his effectiveness was only seen in spurts for sure, but when we saw him play well it was very tantilizing. his combination of size, quickness and balance when attacking the rim is like you said "unusual". he finishes well with either hand and has also (again only in spurts) shown a nice ability to pass for a big. he also played very solid defense. his defensive PER at the C position (where he got the majority of his minutes) was 13.5...which is quite good.

i am very high on BBD as a prospect and i don't believe that conditioning will be the thing that holds him back. like i said earlier, work with big man guru Ray is really where his development will blossom or stall IMO...

[Brickowski]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

[winsomme]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

yeah, i don't expect to see much visual change in terms of his size....his major work this off-season like you said will be working on his game and building consistency on top of the skills that he has already shown in flashes this season.

i think he will get in better shape, but i don't really expect him to look much different coming back next year....

the question for me is how much he advantage he will take of having a guy like Ray at his disposal and how much he wants to get better. i think he has the desire, but i guess you can never know for sure..

[BballTim]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

  He's last among our bigs in assists/48 and the worst of the rebounders, and his mid-range jumper is below average. I know he's a rookie, and these things can all be improved on, but he has to take a good long look at his career. Again, we're discussing his weight at the end of the season, and his numbers before the all-star break were better than his numbers after the all-star break, which isn't a good sign for a young player. Much more talented players than BBD have eaten their way out of the league. I think he can be a good player and I don't want him to fail, but his natural ability will only take him so far.

[rondofan1255]

We need to trade one of them, and get Kwame. Someone mentioned this earlier, but I think Kwame's worth a look.

Backup center?

[winsomme]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

  He's last among our bigs in assists/48 and the worst of the rebounders, and his mid-range jumper is below average. I know he's a rookie, and these things can all be improved on, but he has to take a good long look at his career. Again, we're discussing his weight at the end of the season, and his numbers before the all-star break were better than his numbers after the all-star break, which isn't a good sign for a young player. Much more talented players than BBD have eaten their way out of the league. I think he can be a good player and I don't want him to fail, but his natural ability will only take him so far.

 again, i think your level of concern about him eating his way out of the league is being overstated....and the stats you are giving are very deceptive as he was a rookie on a Title winning team. and did not get consistent minutes.

yet, like i said, in the spurts where he did play well he was a revelation. now, he just needs to put in the work to build off what he showed this year.

i'm really not sure why you are so down on this guy...

[EJPLAYA]

Isn´t it depressing how an undersized, overweight and lazy guy with no mid-range game made it to the NBA, and we didn´t? 

And if that wasn`t enough, he already has a ring and a productive finals appearance.

I think we can`t argue about his condition, since that would require more scientific facts.

All right. You're comments can be thrown right out the window. He has a "productive finals appearance"?! He played 15 minutes of garbage time in the closeout game while we were up almost 40 pts. He didn't play a single minute the rest of the finals!!! Did you even watch any of the games?!

[EJPLAYA]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

We keep hammering home the Bulk vs. Fat problem. Everyone on here agrees what makes him unique is his size and strength. That's fine. What we are somehow not agreeing on though is the idea that having a bunch of extra Fat on him isn't an issue. I don't think anyone on here dislikes BBD or what he can potentially bring. We just feel like he is much more overweight than the rest of you are admitting to, and that if he would work his tail off in the off season and drop fat and add muscle he would be a lot better player.  All these strengths you point out will only get better with improved physical conditioning. He needs to get back to where he was when he was trying to earn a draft spot. I don't know why a guy with only 1 more year on his contract wouldn't try to give himself every chance to set himself for life with the next one...

I hope you assess players Brick thought better than you do coaches... Still think the guy is the worst coach in the world?! (I kind of expect you to stick with that even though you know you were wrong!)

[BballTim]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

  He's last among our bigs in assists/48 and the worst of the rebounders, and his mid-range jumper is below average. I know he's a rookie, and these things can all be improved on, but he has to take a good long look at his career. Again, we're discussing his weight at the end of the season, and his numbers before the all-star break were better than his numbers after the all-star break, which isn't a good sign for a young player. Much more talented players than BBD have eaten their way out of the league. I think he can be a good player and I don't want him to fail, but his natural ability will only take him so far.

 again, i think your level of concern about him eating his way out of the league is being overstated....and the stats you are giving are very deceptive as he was a rookie on a Title winning team. and did not get consistent minutes.

yet, like i said, in the spurts where he did play well he was a revelation. now, he just needs to put in the work to build off what he showed this year.

i'm really not sure why you are so down on this guy...

  I'm not that down on him, I'm just being realistic. The fact that his conditioning isn't better coupled with the fact that his per minute numbers didn't improve over the season isn't a good thing, either by themselves or together.

[winsomme]

BBD will have a long, productive NBA career, barring injury.

He's an excellent post defender, he can put the ball on the floor, pass, shoot the midrange jumper, and above all rebound at both ends.

He needs to learn how to get his shot off in traffic.  He does a nice job using his bulk to carve out space while rebounding, but he hasn't learned to use his bulk to get a clean look at the basket.  He also needs to work on upfakes and maybe a fallway jumper.

His weight is a red herring.  His bulk is an asset, not a liability, with the caveat that it makes him more prone to injury, especially knee injuries.

  He's last among our bigs in assists/48 and the worst of the rebounders, and his mid-range jumper is below average. I know he's a rookie, and these things can all be improved on, but he has to take a good long look at his career. Again, we're discussing his weight at the end of the season, and his numbers before the all-star break were better than his numbers after the all-star break, which isn't a good sign for a young player. Much more talented players than BBD have eaten their way out of the league. I think he can be a good player and I don't want him to fail, but his natural ability will only take him so far.

 again, i think your level of concern about him eating his way out of the league is being overstated....and the stats you are giving are very deceptive as he was a rookie on a Title winning team. and did not get consistent minutes.

yet, like i said, in the spurts where he did play well he was a revelation. now, he just needs to put in the work to build off what he showed this year.

i'm really not sure why you are so down on this guy...

  I'm not that down on him, I'm just being realistic. The fact that his conditioning isn't better coupled with the fact that his per minute numbers didn't improve over the season isn't a good thing, either by themselves or together.

well his stats IMO are explained by the situation he is playing in.  the fall off from first to second half really doesn't concern me that much. i mean if we was getting a ton of minutes and looking crappy i might be a less enamored, but he was getting very scattered minutes.

just out of curiosity, you said before you think he can be a good player. what are you basing that off of?

[BballTim]

  I'm not that down on him, I'm just being realistic. The fact that his conditioning isn't better coupled with the fact that his per minute numbers didn't improve over the season isn't a good thing, either by themselves or together.

well his stats IMO are explained by the situation he is playing in.  the fall off from first to second half really doesn't concern me that much. i mean if we was getting a ton of minutes and looking crappy i might be a less enamored, but he was getting very scattered minutes.

just out of curiosity, you said before you think he can be a good player. what are you basing that off of?

  In terms of his stats, it's pretty typical to see improvement over the course of the year for younger players. And he has the skill and BBIQ to be a decent player although he is a bit short. I don't think he will (or should) ever be skinny, but I think he accomplishes what he does in spite of his excess weight, not because of it. He needs to have a body more like Perk, who's strong but not chubby.

[winsomme]

  I'm not that down on him, I'm just being realistic. The fact that his conditioning isn't better coupled with the fact that his per minute numbers didn't improve over the season isn't a good thing, either by themselves or together.

well his stats IMO are explained by the situation he is playing in.  the fall off from first to second half really doesn't concern me that much. i mean if we was getting a ton of minutes and looking crappy i might be a less enamored, but he was getting very scattered minutes.

just out of curiosity, you said before you think he can be a good player. what are you basing that off of?

  In terms of his stats, it's pretty typical to see improvement over the course of the year for younger players. And he has the skill and BBIQ to be a decent player although he is a bit short. I don't think he will (or should) ever be skinny, but I think he accomplishes what he does in spite of his excess weight, not because of it. He needs to have a body more like Perk, who's strong but not chubby.

but how are you assessing his skill and BBIQ?

and what are the specific skills that you like about him...?

[BballTim]

  I'm not that down on him, I'm just being realistic. The fact that his conditioning isn't better coupled with the fact that his per minute numbers didn't improve over the season isn't a good thing, either by themselves or together.

well his stats IMO are explained by the situation he is playing in.  the fall off from first to second half really doesn't concern me that much. i mean if we was getting a ton of minutes and looking crappy i might be a less enamored, but he was getting very scattered minutes.

just out of curiosity, you said before you think he can be a good player. what are you basing that off of?

  In terms of his stats, it's pretty typical to see improvement over the course of the year for younger players. And he has the skill and BBIQ to be a decent player although he is a bit short. I don't think he will (or should) ever be skinny, but I think he accomplishes what he does in spite of his excess weight, not because of it. He needs to have a body more like Perk, who's strong but not chubby.

but how are you assessing his skill and BBIQ?

  I'm not sure what you're asking, unless the correct answer is "by watching him play".