BBD- Which size player will come back from the Offseason?!

[BballTim]

like i said, i disagree with your assessment of how out of shape BBD is.....he is a big boy and he always will be. but you comparisons to Traylor and Miller are way off the mark IMO. BBD could beat them down the floor running backwards.

  Clearly BBD isn't in the (size) league of Traylor or Miller. But many of the comments you use to defend Davis (quick, moves well for his size, and the like) were also said about Miller and Traylor when they were either in college or young nba players.

to me this goes exactly to your point about it being meaningless how out of shape a player is....

the degree to which Miller and Traylor were out of shape IMO matters and BBD is simply no where near that...

 
  The Suns went to the finals during Miller's rookie year and a big reason was how well Miller played defense vs David Robinson in the playoffs. He wasn't always as heavy as he was in later years. It's also worth noting that Miller's listed size (probably from his rookie year and never updated) was 6-9, 280. Traylor (who was never good) is listed at 6-8, 284. Davis is listed at 6-9, 289. You can't just dismiss his weight. There's no need to panic, but he's clearly not addressing the situation as aggressively as Perk, for instance.

[winsomme]

like i said, i disagree with your assessment of how out of shape BBD is.....he is a big boy and he always will be. but you comparisons to Traylor and Miller are way off the mark IMO. BBD could beat them down the floor running backwards.

  Clearly BBD isn't in the (size) league of Traylor or Miller. But many of the comments you use to defend Davis (quick, moves well for his size, and the like) were also said about Miller and Traylor when they were either in college or young nba players.

to me this goes exactly to your point about it being meaningless how out of shape a player is....

the degree to which Miller and Traylor were out of shape IMO matters and BBD is simply no where near that...

YET!! I think that you are now just arguing to argue. I feel the exact same way BBallTim does. He has let himself get somewhere between 20-40 lbs heavier than before we drafter him. If he sheds the fat then he will be a better player. How can you keep denying that?!

please, enough with the "arguing to argue" stuff.

we have a very clear disagreement in the level of concern regarding BBD as a player and the degree to which we think  he is out of shape and i am simply pointing that out...

When you are insinuating that the extra fat is actually part of what makes BBD special, then you are just arguing to argue. No one in sports at any capacity would agree that extra fat is a plus unless maybe they were a lineman. Even then they would prefer that same weight in muscle. If you weren't trying to argue you would have left it at " I don't think he is more than 10-15 lbs overweight". Everyone can see that he is 30ish over. I'm guessing he could actually lose 35-40 and then add some back in muscle. No one can even argue that won't result in a better BBD. Pretending it isn't a big deal that this guy added 25-35 lbs of fat over this year is ridiculous. We will likely be committing to either him or Powe in this offseason and the fact that he has showed a tendency to be a little lazy should be a big concern.

again i completely disagree with how much weight he needs to lose and i completely disagree with the idea that him being  overweight at this point is somehow indicative of some serious flaw in this guy for the future....

you are stating opinions that i don't agree with....that's all...

[winsomme]

like i said, i disagree with your assessment of how out of shape BBD is.....he is a big boy and he always will be. but you comparisons to Traylor and Miller are way off the mark IMO. BBD could beat them down the floor running backwards.

  Clearly BBD isn't in the (size) league of Traylor or Miller. But many of the comments you use to defend Davis (quick, moves well for his size, and the like) were also said about Miller and Traylor when they were either in college or young nba players.

  The Suns went to the finals during Miller's rookie year and a big reason was how well Miller played defense vs David Robinson in the playoffs. He wasn't always as heavy as he was in later years. It's also worth noting that Miller's listed size (probably from his rookie year and never updated) was 6-9, 280. Traylor (who was never good) is listed at 6-8, 284. Davis is listed at 6-9, 289. You can't just dismiss his weight. There's no need to panic, but he's clearly not addressing the situation as aggressively as Perk, for instance.

to me this goes exactly to your point about it being meaningless how out of shape a player is....

the degree to which Miller and Traylor were out of shape IMO matters and BBD is simply no where near that...

i'm not sure where else we can go with this unless we can somehow get access to the current body fat info for BBD now and Oliver Miller at all these points in his career that you are talking about...

to me, going by the eye test, i don't feel that BBD is as overweight as you (as it appears to me that you think anyway). and (also as it appears to me) i think the level of concern about the fact that  BBD is overweight is being overstated.

i think that BBD will get on a decent conditioning program and will be fine for next year....that's just how i feel. maybe i will be wrong. maybe he will plateau as player and start packing on the pounds, but i just don't see it right now...

[johnnyrondo]

Anyone have a clip of BBD's dunk in game 6? That was such a Billy Hoyle, Fat Men Can't Jump moment.

[winsomme]

Anyone have a clip of BBD's dunk in game 6? That was such a Billy Hoyle, Fat Men Can't Jump moment.

i've been looking for it, but haven't found it yet...

[EJPLAYA]

like i said, i disagree with your assessment of how out of shape BBD is.....he is a big boy and he always will be. but you comparisons to Traylor and Miller are way off the mark IMO. BBD could beat them down the floor running backwards.

  Clearly BBD isn't in the (size) league of Traylor or Miller. But many of the comments you use to defend Davis (quick, moves well for his size, and the like) were also said about Miller and Traylor when they were either in college or young nba players.

  The Suns went to the finals during Miller's rookie year and a big reason was how well Miller played defense vs David Robinson in the playoffs. He wasn't always as heavy as he was in later years. It's also worth noting that Miller's listed size (probably from his rookie year and never updated) was 6-9, 280. Traylor (who was never good) is listed at 6-8, 284. Davis is listed at 6-9, 289. You can't just dismiss his weight. There's no need to panic, but he's clearly not addressing the situation as aggressively as Perk, for instance.

to me this goes exactly to your point about it being meaningless how out of shape a player is....

the degree to which Miller and Traylor were out of shape IMO matters and BBD is simply no where near that...

i'm not sure where else we can go with this unless we can somehow get access to the current body fat info for BBD now and Oliver Miller at all these points in his career that you are talking about...

to me, going by the eye test, i don't feel that BBD is as overweight as you (as it appears to me that you think anyway). and (also as it appears to me) i think the level of concern about the fact that  BBD is overweight is being overstated.

i think that BBD will get on a decent conditioning program and will be fine for next year....that's just how i feel. maybe i will be wrong. maybe he will plateau as player and start packing on the pounds, but i just don't see it right now...

I can agree with that as well! If we knew his %, which they will never tell us, then we would know. I hope you are right. I think you will see what he is made of though and I hope he comes back in shape. I have a sneaky suspicion that he won't be back next year. I think they will package him and a pick/other player for a bigger big man or better backup PG.

[winsomme]

like i said, i disagree with your assessment of how out of shape BBD is.....he is a big boy and he always will be. but you comparisons to Traylor and Miller are way off the mark IMO. BBD could beat them down the floor running backwards.

  Clearly BBD isn't in the (size) league of Traylor or Miller. But many of the comments you use to defend Davis (quick, moves well for his size, and the like) were also said about Miller and Traylor when they were either in college or young nba players.

  The Suns went to the finals during Miller's rookie year and a big reason was how well Miller played defense vs David Robinson in the playoffs. He wasn't always as heavy as he was in later years. It's also worth noting that Miller's listed size (probably from his rookie year and never updated) was 6-9, 280. Traylor (who was never good) is listed at 6-8, 284. Davis is listed at 6-9, 289. You can't just dismiss his weight. There's no need to panic, but he's clearly not addressing the situation as aggressively as Perk, for instance.

to me this goes exactly to your point about it being meaningless how out of shape a player is....

the degree to which Miller and Traylor were out of shape IMO matters and BBD is simply no where near that...

i'm not sure where else we can go with this unless we can somehow get access to the current body fat info for BBD now and Oliver Miller at all these points in his career that you are talking about...

to me, going by the eye test, i don't feel that BBD is as overweight as you (as it appears to me that you think anyway). and (also as it appears to me) i think the level of concern about the fact that  BBD is overweight is being overstated.

i think that BBD will get on a decent conditioning program and will be fine for next year....that's just how i feel. maybe i will be wrong. maybe he will plateau as player and start packing on the pounds, but i just don't see it right now...

I can agree with that as well! If we knew his %, which they will never tell us, then we would know. I hope you are right. I think you will see what he is made of though and I hope he comes back in shape. I have a sneaky suspicion that he won't be back next year. I think they will package him and a pick/other player for a bigger big man or better backup PG.

yeah, let's hope because anytime you can get your own picks to to develop it gives you more ways to get better.....

i don't think the way we did BBDs contract was ideal for us because we couldn't give him the third year, but it also means that BBD has not made his money as a player yet, so there is that to motivate him too if simply getting better is not enough motivation on its own...

let's hope he comes back ready to help us win #18.

i definitely enjoy watching him play, so him continuing to get better would make me happy because it would certainly get him some more PT...

[Birdbrain]

He's no where near Oliver Miller or Tractor Traylor and yes BBD's weight is actually part of what makes him effective.  Now I do agree that BBD is a young guy that in College let himself go so it's a concern, no where near the concern that some people are making it. 

The guy is so light on his feet that he might gain some quickness by losing a few pounds but, not much IMO.

He looks so thin in that pic, just kidding kind of.

[EJPLAYA]

He's no where near Oliver Miller or Tractor Traylor and yes BBD's weight is actually part of what makes him effective.  Now I do agree that BBD is a young guy that in College let himself go so it's a concern, no where near the concern that some people are making it. 

The guy is so light on his feet that he might gain some quickness by losing a few pounds but, not much IMO.

He looks so thin in that pic, just kidding kind of.

I don't know why I am responding because it has all been said, but his muscle and mass make him effective, extra pounds do not. If he lost 35 lbs of fat and added 10-15 muscle he would be a better player. That's not even debatable so I'm done arguing it. Fat does not help anyone!!!!

[kinetic]

Look, the bottom line is that BBD needs to spend the summer:

1) Dropping 30-50lbs. Depending on how much he weighs now as his goal should be around 270.

2) Working on his vertical (plyometric time)

3) Fix terrible mid range jump shot (MIA since college. Please hangout with Rondo)

4) Study Carlos Boozer tape.

If he does these things he can be a solid player, if not... well he can always whip out his ring to impress his European teammates.

[winsomme]

Look, the bottom line is that BBD needs to spend the summer:

1) Dropping 30-50lbs. Depending on how much he weighs now as his goal should be around 270.

2) Working on his vertical (plyometric time)

3) Fix terrible mid range jump shot (MIA since college. Please hangout with Rondo)

4) Study Carlos Boozer tape.

If he does these things he can be a solid player, if not... well he can always whip out his ring to impress his European teammates.

i actually disagree with all 4 of your bottom liners...

IMO he is not as overweight as you seem to think, his vert is not a make a break element of his game, his jumper is not as bad as you say and he'd be better off just playing ball than watching tapes of Boozer who BBD already plays better defense than...

i think the chances of him ever having to go play ball in Europe is zero.

his hunger to get better is something that we will just have to wait and see on...

[Casperian]

Isn´t it depressing how an undersized, overweight and lazy guy with no mid-range game made it to the NBA, and we didn´t? 

And if that wasn`t enough, he already has a ring and a productive finals appearance.

I think we can`t argue about his condition, since that would require more scientific facts.

[kinetic]

i actually disagree with all 4 of your bottom liners...

IMO he is not as overweight as you seem to think, his vert is not a make a break element of his game, his jumper is not as bad as you say and he'd be better off just playing ball than watching tapes of Boozer who BBD already plays better defense than...

i think the chances of him ever having to go play ball in Europe is zero.

his hunger to get better is something that we will just have to wait and see on...

Weight: Not getting down on the guy but it is clear to most that he has extra momentum that is not helping his game. The exact amount, who can say. Even if he can get away with it for a while, his joints and ligaments may not.

Shooting: I watched almost all of the games this season, and by god he makes Rondo look like a sharp shooter. I can remember off hand around three times a jumper fell for him.

Tape: Integral part of the NBA, practicing what you already know does not always result in improvement, always be learning. Boozer is a good role model for a wide frame, strong, short PF with a quick first step... not unlike what BBD could be if he continues to work, intelligently.

Europe: Lets hope not.

Hunger: We certainly know that he is hungry.

[winsomme]

Isn´t it depressing how an undersized, overweight and lazy guy with no mid-range game made it to the NBA, and we didn´t? 

And if that wasn`t enough, he already has a ring and a productive finals appearance.

I think we can`t argue about his condition, since that would require more scientific facts.

yeah, we're not gonna get anywhere on the amount of weight question...which is fair. i mean, i think that he only needs to drop 10-15 lbs, but i don't KNOW that....it's just my opinion...

but i just am really high on BBD as a prospect in general - aside from the weight question - and am surprised when people suggest that he is in any way close to being out of the league.

[winsomme]

i actually disagree with all 4 of your bottom liners...

IMO he is not as overweight as you seem to think, his vert is not a make a break element of his game, his jumper is not as bad as you say and he'd be better off just playing ball than watching tapes of Boozer who BBD already plays better defense than...

i think the chances of him ever having to go play ball in Europe is zero.

his hunger to get better is something that we will just have to wait and see on...

Weight: Not getting down on the guy but it is clear to most that he has extra momentum that is not helping his game. The exact amount, who can say. Even if he can get away with it for a while, his joints and ligaments may not.

Shooting: I watched almost all of the games this season, and by god he makes Rondo look like a sharp shooter. I can remember off hand around three times a jumper fell for him.

Tape: Integral part of the NBA, practicing what you already know does not always result in improvement, always be learning. Boozer is a good role model for a wide frame, strong, short PF with a quick first step... not unlike what BBD could be if he continues to work, intelligently.

Europe: Lets hope not.

Hunger: We certainly know that he is hungry.

well, the tape question is sort of an amorphous one. i'm not sure what exactly BBD would be looking to get from watching tape of Boozer. i would say the biggest thing to add to his game in terms of technique would be working with Clifford Ray...

the other stuff, yeah, TBC...