Time for a change?

[Celtics2021]

I am definitely in the "full value or no trade" camp. 

Worst case, we have an All-NBA level player on a three year contract.  It's up to our savant of a coach to make that work.

The worst case if we trade him for poor value?  We become a team not good enough to contend, and we've got no serious assets to use to reload.

What is ?full value? though? Value is relative to what someone will pay for him, and obviously our assessment of his value is not consistent with the market value. Given his contract, questionable advance stats, and his off court stuff - let alone what?s actually available right now - I think some Celtics fans overvalue JB and what he?s actually worth on the market.

JB is a tier 2 star like a Booker, KAT, Jamal Murray, etc. Brad is trying to get a tier 1 star trade package for him.

He is trying to get a Desmond Bane or Mikal Bridges package for him.

[Jiri Welsch]

I am definitely in the "full value or no trade" camp. 

Worst case, we have an All-NBA level player on a three year contract.  It's up to our savant of a coach to make that work.

The worst case if we trade him for poor value?  We become a team not good enough to contend, and we've got no serious assets to use to reload.

What is ?full value? though? Value is relative to what someone will pay for him, and obviously our assessment of his value is not consistent with the market value. Given his contract, questionable advance stats, and his off court stuff - let alone what?s actually available right now - I think some Celtics fans overvalue JB and what he?s actually worth on the market.

JB is a tier 2 star like a Booker, KAT, Jamal Murray, etc. Brad is trying to get a tier 1 star trade package for him.

He is trying to get a Desmond Bane or Mikal Bridges package for him.

Unfortunately feels like those days are over. Not a lot of desperate teams because Brown doesn?t provide a palatable contract.

[celticinorlando]

I am definitely in the "full value or no trade" camp. 

Worst case, we have an All-NBA level player on a three year contract.  It's up to our savant of a coach to make that work.

The worst case if we trade him for poor value?  We become a team not good enough to contend, and we've got no serious assets to use to reload.

What is ?full value? though? Value is relative to what someone will pay for him, and obviously our assessment of his value is not consistent with the market value. Given his contract, questionable advance stats, and his off court stuff - let alone what?s actually available right now - I think some Celtics fans overvalue JB and what he?s actually worth on the market.

JB is a tier 2 star like a Booker, KAT, Jamal Murray, etc. Brad is trying to get a tier 1 star trade package for him.

He is trying to get a Desmond Bane or Mikal Bridges package for him.

Teams hate his contract and are afraid he will demand a trade out. Brad should have seen this when no third team wanted in on the Giannis deal. Even the Bucks owner said they were afraid Brown would demand a trade.

He is a very good player, but I think Brad has overvalued him in this market.

At this point I would keep him. Try to sign needs in FA or trade Hauser for something.

[Vermont Green]

I am definitely in the "full value or no trade" camp. 

Worst case, we have an All-NBA level player on a three year contract.  It's up to our savant of a coach to make that work.

The worst case if we trade him for poor value?  We become a team not good enough to contend, and we've got no serious assets to use to reload.

What is ?full value? though? Value is relative to what someone will pay for him, and obviously our assessment of his value is not consistent with the market value. Given his contract, questionable advance stats, and his off court stuff - let alone what?s actually available right now - I think some Celtics fans overvalue JB and what he?s actually worth on the market.

Full value to me is straightforward. Is the team better after the trade or not better?  If the team is not better, then you did not get enough value so do not do the trade. 

[celticinorlando]

They should not trade him. They are just a few pieces away from being able to be a favorite in the East.

Dumping him sets the Cs further back.

Now my concern lies with Brad filling out the roster and hitting the needs that have to be addressed. Brad in FA hasn't been a strong suit and how much is ownership going to allow him to do anything.

Couple this with the east getting much better, Brad has to be do something here.

[No Nickname]

While the media and fans all run around with their hair on fire, three years is plenty of time for a team to get value out of Jaylen Brown.

I predict that if he stays with the Celts, or whoever he's traded to, will not extend his deal at the supermax levels.

He'll play it out like Trae Young-- and three years is a long time where he could either earn that supermax or realize he can't get it on the open market-- and then re-sign at a more palatable number.

The team getting him in a trade now can also use his expiring contract in a deal to get some value after three years (along with a lot of team success for the next three years for whomever's trading for him, due to Jaylen's contributions).

[RodyTur10]

League sources said that the Celtics have continued to field calls from teams interested in trading for Brown. A league source said that Brown has grown frustrated with the organization?s approach following a season in which he guided the Celtics to 56 wins while Jayson Tatum was sidelined for months with an Achilles injury.
Boston Globe

https://x.com/jakeissenberg/status/2071779977759228322

Jaylen liking some thoughtful instagram comments today.

The comment in question says: "Man as a person who can't stand the Celtics I hope they do right by him and trading him to a city who respects him."

I'm done with the JB experience. The petulant "woe is me" attitude because his own ego can't tune out the noise from the media and social media in particular - which, by the way, his own comments and actions have only stoked all season long - is just super frustrating. I think it's best for all parties involved to move on at this point.

Appreciate all he has done for the Celtics, and his jersey very well may end up in the rafters. However, the juice is no longer worth the squeeze in my eyes, regardless if we're discussing the contract issue, his impact on winning games, or all the noise that accompanies him because of his dynamic with JT. Just lean fully into JT moving forward and start *truly* building the team around him.

We obviously screwed the pooch on the Giannis thing - though there were legitimate questions about fit and health there. I'm coming around on the Nuggets idea. Not a huge fan of Murray, but it would be interesting to see JT with a better offensive guard.

I'm still not trading him if the value isn't there in a return. What's he gonna do, be frustrated and sit out? Then good luck getting the extension, because I think the league is also basically saying they don't want to give Jaylen those additional years nor are they willing to give up a ton to get him in trade.

I do agree the analytic comments criticizing Jaylen are way too much and the fact that teams are valuing others like Morant/Lamelo more is a bit asinine, but that's just the harsh reality too. I really can't see Brad just dumping Jaylen for scraps, it can't be that bad, and even if it is, just keep him. If he sits out and continues lashing out in the media, I don't see how that helps his cause in trying to get an extension, either here or somewhere else.

Edit - Just to clarify, if they get "80 cents on the dollar" for Jaylen, I'd still be a bit irked but accept it at this point. What I'm talking about is if a team is offering like a bad contract OR just a mere role player and maybe 2 future picks for Jaylen in trade. THAT would be terrible and not worth it even with his antics. And frankly, now that the Blazers aren't pursuing him idk what is realistic.

It's better to get something out of him than nothing at that point. Whether it's 80 cents for a dollar or 30 cents for a dollar, just make the swing. JB is done with Boston.

And Brad, idk what he thinks of Hugo and Baylor that he can't unload them for Giannis, but those two better be All-Stars this upcoming season. Otherwise this JB/Giannis saga will torpedo the Celtics

It seems like Brad just completely overvalues Jaylen

He wasnt willing to budge on Brown + 2 firsts, and in my opinion its not because he overvalues Hugo or Baylor. Its because he felt Brown + 2 firsts was a much much better offer than it really was.

I really think Brad though that he could get a PG -> Clippers type deal for Jaylen Brown at the drop of that hat. He just appears to have totally misread the market.

I suppose some team can always come in with a moronic offer, but I cant imagine this ending well.

The great structure, culture and supporting cast has us completely overrating our stars.

If you just take their career stats then Jayson Tatum is incrediby close to Paul George.
While Jaylen Brown is very similar to Rudy Gay, and no that's not an exaggeration.

We shouldn't have given Brown that extension.
Not only are we stuck now, it already forced us to get rid of other valuable players like Holiday.

Very frustrating that this year of stat padding for Brown doesn't get returns.
Even Bradley Beal went for a haul to Phoenix after he got a full green light in Washington.

[Phantom255x]

Jaylen trade + Giannis trade talks aside, did Brad even have a backup plan to address the frontcourt?? So many guys have signed or are nearing deals elsewhere yet the C's seem to be just running it back with Queta and Garza. Yuck

[Celtics2021]

Jaylen trade + Giannis trade talks aside, did Brad even have a backup plan to address the frontcourt?? So many guys have signed or are nearing deals elsewhere yet the C's seem to be just running it back with Queta and Garza. Yuck

Who has signed in actual free agency?  I saw the Blazers for a 2-way guy from OKC.  Did I miss anyone else?  Brad cannot sign players who extended with their original teams in the last week.  It is just not how the rules work.

You all need to chill.

[Goldstar88]

Tomek Kordylewski: Here's @JakeLFischer during the B/R free agency LIVE: "I know Jalen Duren's side has some interest in the potential sign-and-trade exit not to L.A., not to Sacramento, but to Boston."
x.com

[jambr380]

Tomek Kordylewski: Here's @JakeLFischer during the B/R free agency LIVE: "I know Jalen Duren's side has some interest in the potential sign-and-trade exit not to L.A., not to Sacramento, but to Boston."
x.com

Somebody proposed a 3-way where we walk away with Duren and Trey Murphy. I'd actually be pretty cool with that.

[SparzWizard]

Tomek Kordylewski: Here's @JakeLFischer during the B/R free agency LIVE: "I know Jalen Duren's side has some interest in the potential sign-and-trade exit not to L.A., not to Sacramento, but to Boston."
x.com

Somebody proposed a 3-way where we walk away with Duren and Trey Murphy. I'd actually be pretty cool with that.

That would actually be a stellar move. We get a young 22 y/o big who will keep improving, and Trey Murphy who is the coveted tweener.

But, what would Detroit get back? They were just the #1 seed and they aren't going to lose Duren for nothing lol. They need immediate impact guys. And I'd assume Brown is going to the Pelicans in that idea.

[radiohead]

Tomek Kordylewski: Here's @JakeLFischer during the B/R free agency LIVE: "I know Jalen Duren's side has some interest in the potential sign-and-trade exit not to L.A., not to Sacramento, but to Boston."
x.com

Somebody proposed a 3-way where we walk away with Duren and Trey Murphy. I'd actually be pretty cool with that.

That would actually be a stellar move. We get a young 22 y/o big who will keep improving, and Trey Murphy who is the coveted tweener.

But, what would Detroit get back? They were just the #1 seed and they aren't going to lose Duren for nothing lol. They need immediate impact guys. And I'd assume Brown is going to the Pelicans in that idea.

Who will be Detroit?s big man if they let Duren go? Queta as part of the JB package?

[Who]

So with Keon Ellis signing for 2yrs $18mil with the Brooklyn Nets and Kris Dunn staying with the Clippers. What type of options does Boston have if they want to add a defensive guard?

* Marcus Smart

Some cheaper options

* Gabe Vincent - streaky offense, usually bad offense
* D Melton - bad offense
* G Payton II - bad offense

Blake Wesley is a bigger guard. A SG. He was impressive defensively for Portland last year before he got hurt. Also bad offense. Bruce Brown Jr is another big guard.

-------------

The offensive guards

* Anfernee Simons
* Colin Sexton
* Quintin Grimes - two guard

Cheaper options

* Brandon Williams

--------

More of a cheap all-rounder

* Jalen Pickett - combo guard

[Celtics2021]

Tomek Kordylewski: Here's @JakeLFischer during the B/R free agency LIVE: "I know Jalen Duren's side has some interest in the potential sign-and-trade exit not to L.A., not to Sacramento, but to Boston."
x.com

Somebody proposed a 3-way where we walk away with Duren and Trey Murphy. I'd actually be pretty cool with that.

That would actually be a stellar move. We get a young 22 y/o big who will keep improving, and Trey Murphy who is the coveted tweener.

But, what would Detroit get back? They were just the #1 seed and they aren't going to lose Duren for nothing lol. They need immediate impact guys. And I'd assume Brown is going to the Pelicans in that idea.

No, I think it would be Brown to Detroit for a package around Duren and Holland, with Holland and a pick sent to New Orleans for Murphy.  Detroit needs to add $10-12 million in outgoing salary to absorb Brown into cap space, so something like Holland and Sasser (who is very much on the block for whatever Detroit can get) would work.  Pels might like Sasser too, since their GM Troy Weaver drafted him when he was in charge in Detroit.  Murphy would fit in to Boston via the Simons TPE.  The Celtics would have about $5.5 million in tax space with 13 players.

It would not be the worst outcome to this saga for either Detroit or Boston.  I do not have a reason for New Orleans other than they seem to be willing to get prospects and picks for Murphy, so they could do worse than add Holland to their young core.