Author Topic: Time for a change?  (Read 200360 times)

Celtics2021 and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #810 on: Yesterday at 08:11:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35834
  • Tommy Points: 1651
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #811 on: Yesterday at 08:26:49 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33626
  • Tommy Points: 871
  • Larry Bird for President
I do not understand why they just do not keep JB and shop Hauser for a depth guard and just sign a center in FA and build around White, Brown, JT and PP.

Brad must have marching orders to get off JB's contract.
maybe Brad doesn't want to lose early in the playoffs again.  Boston isn't a contender right now.

They aren't a contender trading him for spare parts either. Making a deal for Sharpe and Grant doesn't get them out of round one. They might be in the play in tournament with that.

I do not like Brown. I wanted him traded for Giannis. But I just do not see any deal that has been reported that makes the Celtics better.

Keeping him and adding around the margins makes them more competitive than JT, White, no big and 2 bums from Portland.

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #812 on: Yesterday at 09:03:27 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 40066
  • Tommy Points: 3521
  • On To Banner 19!
I do not understand why they just do not keep JB and shop Hauser for a depth guard and just sign a center in FA and build around White, Brown, JT and PP.

Brad must have marching orders to get off JB's contract.
maybe Brad doesn't want to lose early in the playoffs again.  Boston isn't a contender right now.

They aren't a contender trading him for spare parts either. Making a deal for Sharpe and Grant doesn't get them out of round one. They might be in the play in tournament with that.

I do not like Brown. I wanted him traded for Giannis. But I just do not see any deal that has been reported that makes the Celtics better.

Keeping him and adding around the margins makes them more competitive than JT, White, no big and 2 bums from Portland.

Yeah I'm confused. Okay, replace Jaylen with 2 of Sharpe/Scoot/Camara. That makes us a Finals threat?? I don't see how. Maybe if it's Clingan and more but it doesn't seem to be the case. And these other ideas are similar, role players + picks. Not seeing it at all.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #813 on: Yesterday at 09:10:39 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33626
  • Tommy Points: 871
  • Larry Bird for President
I do not understand why they just do not keep JB and shop Hauser for a depth guard and just sign a center in FA and build around White, Brown, JT and PP.

Brad must have marching orders to get off JB's contract.
maybe Brad doesn't want to lose early in the playoffs again.  Boston isn't a contender right now.

They aren't a contender trading him for spare parts either. Making a deal for Sharpe and Grant doesn't get them out of round one. They might be in the play in tournament with that.

I do not like Brown. I wanted him traded for Giannis. But I just do not see any deal that has been reported that makes the Celtics better.

Keeping him and adding around the margins makes them more competitive than JT, White, no big and 2 bums from Portland.

Yeah I'm confused. Okay, replace Jaylen with 2 of Sharpe/Scoot/Camara. That makes us a Finals threat?? I don't see how. Maybe if it's Clingan and more but it doesn't seem to be the case. And these other ideas are similar, role players + picks. Not seeing it at all.

Yeah...Sharpe, Grant and none of the Bucks picks do not interest me at all. That feels like a major step back.

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #814 on: Yesterday at 09:25:50 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 55183
  • Tommy Points: 2623
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win. They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:40:10 PM by Who »

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #815 on: Yesterday at 09:32:03 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 64708
  • Tommy Points: -25357
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win.

They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.

They also lost because our coach didn't make an adjustment in the first six games.

Keep JB, improve the coaching staff.
I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #816 on: Yesterday at 09:33:00 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 40066
  • Tommy Points: 3521
  • On To Banner 19!
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win.

They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.

Yeah the frontcourt was terrible. It was pretty brutal watching them having to go smallball out of necessity especially that Game 7. There were absolutely other issues, but that felt very noticeable. And lets face it, the rest of the NBA has formidable frontcourts. Either a superstar big (Jokic, Embiid, Wemby, etc.) or a legit duo (KAT-Robinson, Hartenstein-Chet, Mobley-Allen, Giannis-Bam, etc.). The C's made or won the Finals with 2 of Timelord/Horford/Porzingis with Kornet as a 3rd ish guy.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #817 on: Yesterday at 10:42:24 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20225
  • Tommy Points: 1183
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win. They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.

They lost because they kept settling for and bricking 3's and didn't attack the rim more. Game 5 and Game 7.


#FireJoe
#JokeMazulla 2026
#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown) 2022 - 2026
I am the Master of Panic.

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #818 on: Yesterday at 10:57:20 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15562
  • Tommy Points: 1831
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win. They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.

They lost because they kept settling for and bricking 3's and didn't attack the rim more. Game 5 and Game 7.

JB averaging more turnovers than assists did not help either. He really has not been able to improve with that over the years. Especially bad in the playoffs with ball security.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #819 on: Yesterday at 11:01:56 PM »

Online Celtics2021

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8808
  • Tommy Points: 1118
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win.

They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.

Yeah the frontcourt was terrible. It was pretty brutal watching them having to go smallball out of necessity especially that Game 7. There were absolutely other issues, but that felt very noticeable. And lets face it, the rest of the NBA has formidable frontcourts. Either a superstar big (Jokic, Embiid, Wemby, etc.) or a legit duo (KAT-Robinson, Hartenstein-Chet, Mobley-Allen, Giannis-Bam, etc.). The C's made or won the Finals with 2 of Timelord/Horford/Porzingis with Kornet as a 3rd ish guy.

Generally true.  I do think Queta was overwhelmed in his first playoff experience.  He was just not mentally ready for how the game changed.  He played much better in game 7, and if we had someone to help him, we might have pulled it off.  (Say what you will about Joe?s coaching, I think bringing Queta from the bench in Game 7 slowed down his adrenaline, and we were +9 in his 33 minutes).  I am fine with Neemy in the rotation, and even starting next year, but he needs someone with him.  (That is why I want Mitchell Robinson so badly.  I think the two of them will be able to withstand a star big).

But we also got unlucky in our first-round matchup.  Our biggest weakness was at center, and we got matched up with Philly, who had a healthy Embiid for just long enough to swing the series.  The Magic, Hawks, and Raptors would have been just fine as any of the other 5-8 seeds, as would have Charlotte and likely Miami if we want to look at the play-in teams.  If we had gotten to the second round and lost to the eventual champions in a transition year, I do not think as many people would be losing it.  (Some of course, who consider conference finals early exits, but it would be fewer).

Anyway, my point is the biggest change we need is a second big.  Plenty of competent ones are available in free agency.  While I am supportive of trading Brown and making wholesale changes, because I think there is sufficient evidence that he does not make this team better enough relative to his salary and despite his legitimate production, I also think that the path of adding a legit center in free agency, having a more recovered Tatum, and getting a leap from one of the young wings (my vote is Hugo, but it does not matter) is enough to elevate this team back to the Finals.  Not a given, but in this day of the second apron where it looks like the Knicks are going to lose multiple important rotation pieces, every team has warts, and are thus beatable.  (Except the Thunder, and they lost in the WCF, so they are beatable too).

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #820 on: Yesterday at 11:33:35 PM »

Offline No Nickname

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
  • Tommy Points: 105
I just wouldn?t look at a potential trade with Portland as the end result.


Brad wants to maximize the return for Brown, so if that initial step means we take back more draft assets as opposed to player assets that?s fine. It?s just Step #1.

You can?t always get the perfect trade to accomplish all of your goals in one fell swoop.

So if maximizing our return on Brown means a deal with Portland is best, you do it.

Then you use a pick or two, along with a player (ex. Hauser or White) and you go after your team needs with that package as a Step #2.

If that lets you get a starting PG who?s a fringe all-star, and then you get a Mitchell Robinson with the MLE you do it.

Brad won?t do a bad deal just to get rid of Brown.  And if he does trade him for something that doesn?t seem like a perfect fit, just remember that this is a multi-step process sometimes.


Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #821 on: Yesterday at 11:45:10 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 52519
  • Tommy Points: 3223
So, Jaylen heard the analytics comments and went on a bit of a tirade on social media today:

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070959968988156399

Quote
Analytics nowadays used to discredit and control narratives - Roll the ball out none of these guys better than me on both ends who does he work for

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070962267890319806

Quote
Nobody has won more combined regular season and playoff games since I entered the league 10 years ago

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070963953539133747

Quote
Analytics have / are ruining the game we playing AI hoops

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070966759947923760

Quote
State your source

https://x.com/Savageboston/status/2071053706083106918

Quote
Jaylen Brown shared this long video on his Instagram. 

Talks about how he was ?the best player? on a championship team. 

How he got ?blackballed? by the Olympic team

How the Celtics tried to trade him multiple times.

It's time to move on from him. He's quickly becoming one of the most exhausting and annoying players with his incessant whining and inability to not engage with the noise on social media.

We all saw how this was going to end after this past year, and I just don't see us mending anything over the next couple of months. I'm ready to see what a full-blown JT-led team gets us, which the numbers with higher JT usage and JT/non-JB minutes being very promising.
Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

EDIT: Nevermind - back on the Fire Joe Train!

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #822 on: Today at 12:00:07 AM »

Online Celtics2021

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8808
  • Tommy Points: 1118
So, Jaylen heard the analytics comments and went on a bit of a tirade on social media today:

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070959968988156399

Quote
Analytics nowadays used to discredit and control narratives - Roll the ball out none of these guys better than me on both ends who does he work for

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070962267890319806

Quote
Nobody has won more combined regular season and playoff games since I entered the league 10 years ago

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070963953539133747

Quote
Analytics have / are ruining the game we playing AI hoops

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070966759947923760

Quote
State your source

https://x.com/Savageboston/status/2071053706083106918

Quote
Jaylen Brown shared this long video on his Instagram. 

Talks about how he was ?the best player? on a championship team. 

How he got ?blackballed? by the Olympic team

How the Celtics tried to trade him multiple times.

It's time to move on from him. He's quickly becoming one of the most exhausting and annoying players with his incessant whining and inability to not engage with the noise on social media.

We all saw how this was going to end after this past year, and I just don't see us mending anything over the next couple of months. I'm ready to see what a full-blown JT-led team gets us, which the numbers with higher JT usage and JT/non-JB minutes being very promising.

As he should.  Even the last tweet you share of Jaylen (state your source) is him responding to Bobby Marks claiming that the clip of him talking about the analytics was edited and cut short to help stir controversy.  Which clearly happened.

Frankly, anyone arguing that analytics demonstrates that Jaylen Brown would be the 7th-best player on a team is giving analytics a bad name. 

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #823 on: Today at 12:29:08 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20225
  • Tommy Points: 1183
What does a realistic Tatum/Brown team look like without going over 2nd apron? Im talking about a team that can beat the Knicks, Timberwolves,  Spurs, and Thunder

I don't think you worry about the West. And OKC are going to have their own problems trying to keep that team together.

You just worry about your own conference. So can a Tatum / Jaylen tandem lead a team over the best teams in the East? Heck yes!!! That is why you do not break them up.
they lost to the Sixers. THE SIXERS.  AN INJURED SIXERS TEAM.  the team is done contending. They have no shot. They can't even beat Philly where Embiid plays in just 4 games.

They didn't lose because Tatum & Jaylen aren't able to win. They lost because the supporting cast isn't good enough. They can improve the supporting cast. Keep Tatum & Jaylen together and improve the supporting cast.

As someone else said, forget Horford, if we even had Aaron Baynes in that series to defend Joel Embiid we would have won it.

There is huge scope for improvement in the supporting cast.

They lost because they kept settling for and bricking 3's and didn't attack the rim more. Game 5 and Game 7.

JB averaging more turnovers than assists did not help either. He really has not been able to improve with that over the years. Especially bad in the playoffs with ball security.

I AGREE with his terrible ball security. He has tunnel vision...anytime I watch him dribble into traffic, RIP. I remember he kept turning it over in the series against Miami in 2023 or in 2022 against Golden State. He's been in the league for 10 years and still cannot improve on his handles, that's very frustrating.


#FireJoe
#JokeMazulla 2026
#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown) 2022 - 2026
I am the Master of Panic.

Re: Time for a change?
« Reply #824 on: Today at 12:36:48 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15562
  • Tommy Points: 1831
So, Jaylen heard the analytics comments and went on a bit of a tirade on social media today:

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070959968988156399

Quote
Analytics nowadays used to discredit and control narratives - Roll the ball out none of these guys better than me on both ends who does he work for

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070962267890319806

Quote
Nobody has won more combined regular season and playoff games since I entered the league 10 years ago

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070963953539133747

Quote
Analytics have / are ruining the game we playing AI hoops

https://x.com/FCHWPO/status/2070966759947923760

Quote
State your source

https://x.com/Savageboston/status/2071053706083106918

Quote
Jaylen Brown shared this long video on his Instagram. 

Talks about how he was ?the best player? on a championship team. 

How he got ?blackballed? by the Olympic team

How the Celtics tried to trade him multiple times.

It's time to move on from him. He's quickly becoming one of the most exhausting and annoying players with his incessant whining and inability to not engage with the noise on social media.

We all saw how this was going to end after this past year, and I just don't see us mending anything over the next couple of months. I'm ready to see what a full-blown JT-led team gets us, which the numbers with higher JT usage and JT/non-JB minutes being very promising.

As he should.  Even the last tweet you share of Jaylen (state your source) is him responding to Bobby Marks claiming that the clip of him talking about the analytics was edited and cut short to help stir controversy.  Which clearly happened.

Frankly, anyone arguing that analytics demonstrates that Jaylen Brown would be the 7th-best player on a team is giving analytics a bad name.

Does he really need to respond every time someone says something stupid. Seems like a waste of energy. He should take a break from the internet.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.