Woj: Jrue to Celtics

[cman88]

I will give It to Brad. I thought we were just going to run it back this year after game 7. But he and ownership decided we needed a major change and went out and got Porzingus at the expense of fan favorite smart

And then when Milwaukee got dame. He went out and got Jrue even if it meant trading Rob Williams.

These are moves that say we are all in to win right now. With the new cba at some point Brad was going to have to make hard decisions anyway with these players. So might as well go all in on high end talent

We essentially have 3 all stars and a fringe all-star in KP in our starting lineup. Our top 6 is elite.

Just wish we filled out the rest of the roster with actual NBA vets and not these fringe guys.

[tenn_smoothie]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

[tenn_smoothie]

I was really excited when we got Brogdon last summer. During the season though, he was disappointing. He shot exceptionally well from deep, but he was a black hole, and his defense was mediocre. This was a far cry from the facilitator with vet leadership that I was expecting. There were also signs throughout the season that he had an ego issue. Not at all the type of player you want to support your stars.

Jrue may be the guy who brings everything I was expecting from Brogdon and much more.

Yeah, same here. I was really expecting him to come in and be much more of a distributor. It's great that he shot so well and scored well, but we certainly needed more from him as a distributor and playmaker, let alone a better defender. Holiday should definitely help with all of those things.

His ability to be a distributor was limited by the one-dimensional offense he was playing in.
Iso-ball combined with jack-a-3 does not lend itself to a fluid offense.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Really tired of this narrative. Not worth arguing against, even though there is plenty of reason to think otherwise. But this also does not need to be said all the time on every thread. It's becoming a bit of internal trolling. Funny thing is, I think some Celtic fans are trolling themselves on it, like some kind of sadomasochist.

[Neurotic Guy]

I was really excited when we got Brogdon last summer. During the season though, he was disappointing. He shot exceptionally well from deep, but he was a black hole, and his defense was mediocre. This was a far cry from the facilitator with vet leadership that I was expecting. There were also signs throughout the season that he had an ego issue. Not at all the type of player you want to support your stars.

Jrue may be the guy who brings everything I was expecting from Brogdon and much more.

Yeah, same here. I was really expecting him to come in and be much more of a distributor. It's great that he shot so well and scored well, but we certainly needed more from him as a distributor and playmaker, let alone a better defender. Holiday should definitely help with all of those things.

His ability to be a distributor was limited by the one-dimensional offense he was playing in.
Iso-ball combined with jack-a-3 does not lend itself to a fluid offense.

The difference in the feel of media day this year compared to last is stark.  Not dealing with the Ime thing and the coaching change is huge

 I think we’ll see VERY early in the season that the Cs aren’t changing their demeanor when up double digits, heaving 3s,  and letting teams back in games. We’ll also see more end of game competence. 

When we see these things, it will be some reassurance (for me anyway) that the culture has been addressed and maybe Joe with his new staff can effectively coach this team.

[tenn_smoothie]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Really tired of this narrative. Not worth arguing against, even though there is plenty of reason to think otherwise. But this also does not need to be said all the time on every thread. It's becoming a bit of internal trolling. Funny thing is, I think some Celtic fans are trolling themselves on it, like some kind of sadomasochist.

Not the case at all. Mazzulla as head coach is simply our biggest obstacle to winning a title.
Just because you don't like that fact doesn't make it go away.
It is so frustrating as a long time Celtic fan to have the talent of a title team, entering their prime years, that is handicapped by a bad coach.

[obnoxiousmime]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Really tired of this narrative. Not worth arguing against, even though there is plenty of reason to think otherwise. But this also does not need to be said all the time on every thread. It's becoming a bit of internal trolling. Funny thing is, I think some Celtic fans are trolling themselves on it, like some kind of sadomasochist.

Not the case at all. Mazzulla as head coach is simply our biggest obstacle to winning a title.
Just because you don't like that fact doesn't make it go away.
It is so frustrating as a long time Celtic fan to have the talent of a title team, entering their prime years, that is handicapped by a bad coach.

Agreed, it's a huge question mark going into a must-win season. I think Mazzulla is going to have a short leash and that's what Charles Lee and Cassell are around for.

[Neurotic Guy]

As with everything your perspective drives associated feelings. If you KNOW the coach to be incompetent and incapable of leading a team to a championship, then you enter the season with pessimism and a die is cast mentality - Cs will lose, it’s just a matter of time. If you think the talent is strong enough to overcome a learning year for a young coach who you think will be better in time - or a coach who now has the support system to keep him upright, then you enter the season as excited as you did in October of 2007.

I’m counting the minutes; can’t wait for the first preseason game.

[gouki88]

I have to say I do find the team more likeable now with Jrue as opposed to Brogdon and Timelord.

Jrue is one of the easiest guys in the league to root for. I like how he plays. A team first guy. Great attitude. Effort, size, athleticism. Competiveness.

Brogdon rubbed me the wrong way. I hated seeing him criticize his teammate's defense while dogging it on D himself. That disgusted me. The same way it did when Amare Stoudemire or Carmelo Anthony did it. Defense accountability for the minions but not for me. I'm the star. Diva-attitude.

Also, I wasn't loving his style of play on offense. More of an iso-style player than a team based player. When he moved to a team style he became a limited spot up shooter type. In order to be more productive, he had to dominate the ball. Too much for my liking.

Then the injury proness. Big issue for Brogdon. Huge issue for Timelord.

It is nice to get away from those things.

It is nice to have an easy to root for player like Jrue Holiday.

I found it odd that Brogdon seldom smiled.  Made me wonder if he had an underlying problem with his role on the Celtics.

Yes, he had Resting [Blank] Face, but the dude wasn't disgruntled.  You guys are reading into things way too much.

Maybe he wasn't happy when White was declared the starter without having the opportunity to compete for it.  Sure, who wouldn't be p---ed if their superior quit their job and your coworker automatically got promoted without you even being able to apply?

You all think that you wouldn't have SOME emotions?

That being said, he was in Boston getting ready for training camp.  The dude is as professional as they come.  Stop judging someone's feelings/motives... or their PRODUCTION in their job based on a facial expression.

The dude BALLED OUT last year for the Celtics.  Now all you guys are dumping on him. 

It's poor form and embarrassing.

And anyone who says "I wish he was more of a distributor" look at his last two seasons with Indiana where he avered 5.9apg in 34mpg.

And then his 3.7apg in 26 minutes with the Cs.  That's 23% fewer minutes and his APG barely dropped off.

He went from averaging an assist every .17 minutes, to one every .14 minutes with the Celtics.  But he was asked to be more of a scoring punch off the bench that we lacked the previous seasons.  And he did that with 44% 3-point shooting. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You're going to some really extreme lengths to defend him. Bringing up irrelevant things he did in Indiana are odd. He's a Trail Blazer now

Irrelevant?  People are saying he wasn't "much of a distributor here."

So comparing his assist stats in Indiana vs in Boston is irrelevant?

Also, that's "extreme?"

What a joke.

That is by definition irrelevant. He wasn't as good a passer here as he was advertised as being coming from Indy. His Indy passing had no bearing on his Celtic performance

[cman88]

Brogdon was great for us last year and a good 3rd option.

All this negativity is just recency bias because he was injured against Miami

[cman88]

Listening to the radio they made a good point. This was as much about countering Milwaukee as it also was keeping Jrue away from Miami/sixers

Now you are head and shoulders above everyone but Milwaukee. Had sixers/Miami got Jrue you are looking at an absolute slog of a playoffs. Maybe you don't even make it through.

Now you at least have to think the inevitable matchup is Milwaukee/Boston on paper

[Roy H.]

Brogdon was great for us last year and a good 3rd option.

All this negativity is just recency bias because he was injured against Miami

Yeah, I think there are two separate arguments:

1.  Did Brogdon meet expectations last year?  I think he did.  He was 6MOY and was a great shooter, better than we could have hoped for.  His overall defense wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but he was a really, really good player.  Definitely worth Nesmith and a #1.

2.  What Brogdon would we have been getting in 2023-24?  This is the harder question.  We don't know if he's fully recovered from injury.  We don't know how much his injuries contributed to some really poor defense in the playoffs (even before the Finals).  And, most concerning, we don't know where his head was at after the KP trade fell through.  Brad has acknowledged he was "angry", and reports are that Brogdon wanted a fresh start.  The "healing" process was still ongoing, despite several months of time passing. 

In combination, I think it's fair to conclude that Brogdon was a really good Celtic that was a diminished asset heading into 2024.  To me, that's why the Jrue trade makes a ton of sense. 

I think a few fans are (perhaps subconsciously) viewing this like we're giving up peak Brogdon + peak Timelord.  While there's certainly a possibility that both guys perform at a very high level going forward, I think the odds are against it.

[Roy H.]

Listening to the radio they made a good point. This was as much about countering Milwaukee as it also was keeping Jrue away from Miami/sixers

Now you are head and shoulders above everyone but Milwaukee. Had sixers/Miami got Jrue you are looking at an absolute slog of a playoffs. Maybe you don't even make it through.

Now you at least have to think the inevitable matchup is Milwaukee/Boston on paper

I'm really curious what the Sixers offered, and what their analysis was on Jrue vs. Harden.

[Roy H.]

This headline is the opposite of click bait: "ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith, Shannon Sharpe debate whether Jrue Holiday makes Boston Celtics title favorites"

https://sports.yahoo.com/espn-stephen-smith-shannon-sharpe-002645881.html

There are very few sports-related headlines that will make me want to click on something less. 

[SHAQATTACK]

Jrue is the right move at the right time.  Incoming championship talent replacing players with never ending injuries is positive for the teams chances .