Woj: Jrue to Celtics

[Surferdad]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

[tonydelk]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

You might want to rethink that shoot comment with Jrue.  He is a worse shooter then Smart believe it or not.  What he is, is a scorer.  He can finish at the rim where smart could not.  Jrue is a true PG where Marcus was a combo. 

[Roy H.]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL. 

[Phantom255x]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL.

That is a good point. Tbh Smart was a disappointment on defense last year and it was frustrating. Far different from 2022 when he was DPOY-caliber

[Kernewek]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL.

Holiday looked terrible against Miami. And, across his entire career, he's never raised his game to another level in the playoffs (not even in the Championship run with the Bucks). I think he's a great player, but I'm not expecting a massive improvement between the two on defense - and I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, binkie or not.

[Roy H.]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL.

Holiday looked terrible against Miami. And, across his entire career, he's never raised his game to another level in the playoffs (not even in the Championship run with the Bucks). I think he's a great player, but I'm not expecting a massive improvement between the two on defense - and I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, binkie or not.

It's in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but Jrue has been All-Defense the past five years.  Marcus was capable of playing elite defense nightly, he just didn't.  Jrue did.

When discussing the playoffs against Miami, a few critics are acting like you can take an MVP off a team and everything should function the same.  There's no acknowledgement that subtracting Giannis (or having him play injured) hurts both the offense and the defense significantly, and changes players' roles.  I don't understand that analysis.

And, I also think it's silly to blame any one player for not being able to stop Jimmy Butler when he's going nuclear.  I mean, if we're blaming Jrue for not stopping Butler, how much blame do Marcus and White get for not stopping not only Butler, but Martin, Vincent and Duncan as well?

[Kernewek]

I'm saying that if we're picking and choosing our seasons (like 2018 for example) it should be noted that he's never had a post-season where he improved on his regular season performance. You can find reasons to explain that away all you like, as is the nature of sports, but it doesn't change the fact.

[celticinorlando]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL.

Holiday looked terrible against Miami. And, across his entire career, he's never raised his game to another level in the playoffs (not even in the Championship run with the Bucks). I think he's a great player, but I'm not expecting a massive improvement between the two on defense - and I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, binkie or not.

Because Smart and Brogdon looked so good in the playoffs right?

[Roy H.]

I'm saying that if we're picking and choosing our seasons (like 2018 for example) it should be noted that he's never had a post-season where he improved on his regular season performance. You can find reasons to explain that away all you like, as is the nature of sports, but it doesn't change the fact.

I would expect that most players, on a per-possession basis, get worse in the playoffs.  They're playing against better competition, teams specifically game-plan against them, and guys have just completed a long season.

And, "he's never had a post-season where he improved on his regular season performance" isn't really true.  For instance, in 2018 he put up 24 / 6 / 6 / .565 eFG%. 

But, if he "only" performs at his career playoff averages of 18 / 7 / 5 with elite defense, I'll take that over either Smart or Brogdon.

Lastly, where did I pick and choose seasons?  I cited how impressive he was in 2018, making All-Defense while playing out of position.  But, it's not like he hasn't been excellent over the past five years, or really, his entire career.  Unfortunately, in two out of three seasons, Marcus didn't consistently show up on defense, and Brogdon's D was terrible last year (despite him calling out his teammates on that end).

[Surferdad]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL.

Holiday looked terrible against Miami. And, across his entire career, he's never raised his game to another level in the playoffs (not even in the Championship run with the Bucks). I think he's a great player, but I'm not expecting a massive improvement between the two on defense - and I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, binkie or not.

It's in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but Jrue has been All-Defense the past five years.  Marcus was capable of playing elite defense nightly, he just didn't.  Jrue did.

When discussing the playoffs against Miami, a few critics are acting like you can take an MVP off a team and everything should function the same.  There's no acknowledgement that subtracting Giannis (or having him play injured) hurts both the offense and the defense significantly, and changes players' roles.  I don't understand that analysis.

And, I also think it's silly to blame any one player for not being able to stop Jimmy Butler when he's going nuclear.  I mean, if we're blaming Jrue for not stopping Butler, how much blame do Marcus and White get for not stopping not only Butler, but Martin, Vincent and Duncan as well?

This is a great point. Yesterday on NBA Radio (Sirius XM), the pundit Amin El-Hassan ripped the deal because Jrue could not stop Butler in the playoffs. He was also highly critical of where that leaves the C's frontcourt, which is a legit criticism, but made no prediction about another move which is the obvious next step. Generally, I like El-Hassan as a commentator but he was just too ready to criticize the deal.

[radiohead]

https://twitter.com/GangCeltics/status/1708830502126297553

Interesting to see Malcolm liking this post.

[celticinorlando]

The Blazers reportedly initially sought four or five first-round picks in the trade for Jrue Holiday, per
@BostonGlobe

[Kernewek]

I'm saying that if we're picking and choosing our seasons (like 2018 for example) it should be noted that he's never had a post-season where he improved on his regular season performance. You can find reasons to explain that away all you like, as is the nature of sports, but it doesn't change the fact.

I would expect that most players, on a per-possession basis, get worse in the playoffs.  They're playing against better competition, teams specifically game-plan against them, and guys have just completed a long season.

And, "he's never had a post-season where he improved on his regular season performance" isn't really true.  For instance, in 2018 he put up 24 / 6 / 6 / .565 eFG%. 

But, if he "only" performs at his career playoff averages of 18 / 7 / 5 with elite defense, I'll take that over either Smart or Brogdon.

Lastly, where did I pick and choose seasons?  I cited how impressive he was in 2018, making All-Defense while playing out of position.  But, it's not like he hasn't been excellent over the past five years, or really, his entire career.  Unfortunately, in two out of three seasons, Marcus didn't consistently show up on defense, and Brogdon's D was terrible last year (despite him calling out his teammates on that end).

Well interestingly to the bolded, and to explain the relevance to the conversation, the guy he's replacing - Smart - regularly played better in the postseason than the regular season.

I like Jrue as a player. I've enjoyed him since his rookie year backing up AI squared. But I don't think looking at any player's performance from five years ago is particularly pertinent to his potential moving forward, and I don't think he was very impressive last season. As I said before the trade was announced, I'm not convinced a guard rotation of White/Brogdon/Smart is a downgrade from White/Holiday. That's still my position, even if I'm going to root for the backcourt we have.

[Kuberski33]

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I think Jrue fit better starters than Smart …he is a better point guard with better handles .

Jrue is the PG we wanted Smart to be: A good defender who can actually shoot.

... and who doesn't take entire games -- or seasons -- off.  Marcus was an elite defender in 2022.  In 2021 and 2023, he was mostly AWOL.

That is a good point. Tbh Smart was a disappointment on defense last year and it was frustrating. Far different from 2022 when he was DPOY-caliber

That's a sign of decline. I do think Brad made the right call in moving on from him. That said, Smart is still a good player and - until yesterday - his ability to guard good scorers and at times win games with his defense was something they hadn't replaced.

[Roy H.]

As I said before the trade was announced, I'm not convinced a guard rotation of White/Brogdon/Smart is a downgrade from White/Holiday. That's still my position, even if I'm going to root for the backcourt we have.

Good thing we didn't trade Smart and Brogdon for Holiday, then?

The net trades, on the court, are KP + Jrue vs. Smart + Brogdon + Timelord

Factor in Walsh if you want to, or Pritchard's increased minutes, or the likelihood of injury.

But, again...  I really don't get the argument by you and Who, that somehow we should value the Jrue trade against the value of Marcus Smart.  Smart is gone, and was gone before the Jrue trade, so he's pretty irrelevant.