Patriots 2023 Season

[footey]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

I wonder if there's a world where the Bears take Williams and then try to move up from #9 to get Harrison.

NE trades:  #3

CHI trades:  #9, 2024 CHI 4th, CHI 2025 1st, CAR 2025 2nd, Justin Fields

I proposed some variation of that in this thread. I didn't have the extra 1st, but had the 2nd rounder this year and next year along with Fields and 9.  Prompted a whole bunch of I'm an idiot even though I used the chart for value.

Bears traded their second rounder this year for Montez Sweat.

I'm not sure the Pats would be a good fit for Fields, because the line and WRs need substantial work.  But, I do think the Pats could do a lot worse.  Basically, they'd be hoping for the same thing the Bears got by trading the pick last year:  a potential top-5 pick from a team that would be playing behind a rookie QB, along with their own top-10 pick.

Somewhere I once proposed drafting Harrison with our top pick and working out a trade to nab Fields. However, after looking at his body of work, I just am skeptical that he is going to be a consistent offensive force. 

[Moranis]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

I wonder if there's a world where the Bears take Williams and then try to move up from #9 to get Harrison.

NE trades:  #3

CHI trades:  #9, 2024 CHI 4th, CHI 2025 1st, CAR 2025 2nd, Justin Fields

I proposed some variation of that in this thread. I didn't have the extra 1st, but had the 2nd rounder this year and next year along with Fields and 9.  Prompted a whole bunch of I'm an idiot even though I used the chart for value.

Bears traded their second rounder this year for Montez Sweat.

I'm not sure the Pats would be a good fit for Fields, because the line and WRs need substantial work.  But, I do think the Pats could do a lot worse.  Basically, they'd be hoping for the same thing the Bears got by trading the pick last year:  a potential top-5 pick from a team that would be playing behind a rookie QB, along with their own top-10 pick.

ah didn't know, it would have still worked with a 3rd this year and both 2nd's next year.  The value was the objection because i onlynhad the 1 1st i.e. 9.  And yet there are a lot of trades for 1 with just 3 as the only 1st rounder on here, which seems strange to me.  Can't have it both ways

[A Future of Stevens]

It will be interesting to see how the conversation changes after tonight's championship game.

If my binkie Penix has another standout game against Michigan's vaunted defense, his draft stock (already on the rise) will likely go even higher.

A few pages ago I proposed a trade down to around 7 to nab him there. Roy said that if we really like him, we should just draft him with our top pick (now 3).  I agree with him. 

Draft Penix!!!!

Even if you LOVE him as a prospect, and his age doesn't scare you off, I believe his injury history should give us pause. Suffering two season ending ACL injuries and two season ending shoulder dislocations is about as bad of an injury history a QB prospect can have.

[johnnygreen]

The Bears should stay put, and draft the best QB on their board. With the 9th pick, go after Brock Bowers (TE) or Malik Nabers (WR).

[SparzWizard]

It will be interesting to see how the conversation changes after tonight's championship game.

If my binkie Penix has another standout game against Michigan's vaunted defense, his draft stock (already on the rise) will likely go even higher.

A few pages ago I proposed a trade down to around 7 to nab him there. Roy said that if we really like him, we should just draft him with our top pick (now 3).  I agree with him. 

Draft Penix!!!!

Even if you LOVE him as a prospect, and his age doesn't scare you off, I believe his injury history should give us pause. Suffering two season ending ACL injuries and two season ending shoulder dislocations is about as bad of an injury history a QB prospect can have.

Yes the injury history scares me...I'll pass on Penix.

[Goldstar88]

The Pats should either trade up for their QB or trade back for additional assets.

A potential interesting trade

3

for

Fields, 9, 41, 2025 3rd

Chicago drafts Williams 1 and then moves up for Harrison or their top tackle at 3 (similar to what Houston did last year). New England gets a 2 year look at Fields, can still probably get a tackle at 9, and adds some extra depth.

That would be a truly awful return for the #3 overall pick. I wouldn't consider trading the pick unless it was Chicago's #9 pick and their first round pick in next year's draft.

using the value chart, that is the same value if you count Fields as valued around the 70th pick. 

Fields is significantly better than Mac.

Yes, significantly better. 

Mac Jones career:

46TD’s, 36INT’s, 8900 yards passing, 66% completion rate, 86 passer rating.

Justin Fields career:

40TD’s, 30INT’s, 6700 yards passing, 60% completion rate, 82 passer rating.

ah yes because we should give equal weight to all seasons and not the most recent one where Mac Jones got benched for Bailey Zappe.

Fields is better than Jones, not even close.  If the Bears called the Patriots and said we will trade you Fields for Jones straight up, are you telling me the Patriots wouldn't do it?  Or better, if the Patriots and Bears put both Fields and Jones on the open market, are you telling me they'd get a similar return?  I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that.

Maybe after Fields has one good season, which he hasn’t yet. Sure; he’s more physically gifted, but that’s not enough to have success at the QB position.

you didn't answer thr questions.

I’m not sure they would. Jones has at least shown for 1 season that he can have success in the NFL, which is more than can be said for Fields. Also, Mac has never had a DJ Moore level talent to throw the ball to. It’s funny how you like to pretend like Mac’s rookie year never happened. Fields hasn’t done anything in the NFL.

[green_bballers13]

I'm not sure Chicago or NE should pick one of the quarterbacks. I obviously don't know as much about CHI, but they don't seem to be very talented (on offense or defense). Either team could draft Caleb Williams and go through the same routine- not enough surrounding talent. If a team can't block or get separation from receivers, there's virtually no chance that a quarterback can succeed.

Also, I love the narrative that there are only two franchise quarterbacks in this draft. How does anyone know this? It's conjecture.

[Neurotic Guy]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

that is under the value. It is close depending on you rate the future picks.  I don't think the Pats can get 1 without 3 and a future 1st though, which may end up an overpay, but itnisnt just 1, it is 1 in a draft with 2 franchise QB. You have to overpay for that.

If that's what it takes, so be it. Replace 2025 2nd and 4th with the 2025 1st.

Some reports have recently come out in the last hour saying the Bears will likely trade #1 and keep Fields, Eberflus + GM (Ryan Poles) and use their high picks + additional assets to build around Fields.

So #1 is likely there for the taking. Depends how much NE covets Caleb Williams.

So dumb.  If they stupidly go that route, I hope they're at least firing the offensive coordinator.

Should also consider that if Commanders are willing to provide Bears a better package (btw, this is why we big on him), the commanders take Caleb, Bears take MHJ, and Pats get Drake without giving up anything.

[BitterJim]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

that is under the value. It is close depending on you rate the future picks.  I don't think the Pats can get 1 without 3 and a future 1st though, which may end up an overpay, but itnisnt just 1, it is 1 in a draft with 2 franchise QB. You have to overpay for that.

If that's what it takes, so be it. Replace 2025 2nd and 4th with the 2025 1st.

Some reports have recently come out in the last hour saying the Bears will likely trade #1 and keep Fields, Eberflus + GM (Ryan Poles) and use their high picks + additional assets to build around Fields.

So #1 is likely there for the taking. Depends how much NE covets Caleb Williams.

So dumb.  If they stupidly go that route, I hope they're at least firing the offensive coordinator.

Should also consider that if Commanders are willing to provide Bears a better package (btw, this is why we big on him), the commanders take Caleb, Bears take MHJ, and Pats get Drake without giving up anything.

Why wouldn't the Bears then look to trade down again? Or at least use the threat to get us to trade up?

[Neurotic Guy]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

that is under the value. It is close depending on you rate the future picks.  I don't think the Pats can get 1 without 3 and a future 1st though, which may end up an overpay, but itnisnt just 1, it is 1 in a draft with 2 franchise QB. You have to overpay for that.

If that's what it takes, so be it. Replace 2025 2nd and 4th with the 2025 1st.

Some reports have recently come out in the last hour saying the Bears will likely trade #1 and keep Fields, Eberflus + GM (Ryan Poles) and use their high picks + additional assets to build around Fields.

So #1 is likely there for the taking. Depends how much NE covets Caleb Williams.

So dumb.  If they stupidly go that route, I hope they're at least firing the offensive coordinator.

Should also consider that if Commanders are willing to provide Bears a better package (btw, this is why we big on him), the commanders take Caleb, Bears take MHJ, and Pats get Drake without giving up anything.

Why wouldn't the Bears then look to trade down again? Or at least use the threat to get us to trade up?

Depends if they want MJH.  If they do then they take their haul  for the #1 and take MJH at 2.  They probably lose him if they trade down again.

[Goldstar88]

Why would there be a second meeting if Kraft was going to release/trade Bill? 


@jeffphowe
Follow
Also in here, Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick had an initial discussion today with at least one more meeting expected to happen.

@jeffphowe
Josh McDaniels could return to Patriots if Bill Belichick remains as coach: Sources  https://theathletic.com/5188951/2024/01/08/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-bill-belichick/?source=emp_shared_article…
8:49 PM · Jan 8, 2024

[SparzWizard]

Why would there be a second meeting if Kraft was going to release/trade Bill? 


@jeffphowe
Follow
Also in here, Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick had an initial discussion today with at least one more meeting expected to happen.

@jeffphowe
Josh McDaniels could return to Patriots if Bill Belichick remains as coach: Sources  https://theathletic.com/5188951/2024/01/08/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-bill-belichick/?source=emp_shared_article…
8:49 PM · Jan 8, 2024

That would be the biggest mistake or second biggest mistake this franchise will ever make, bringing Josh McDaniels back. We saw how he was with the Raiders...no thanks, stay far away from him. Don't want him ruining our new prospect.

[green_bballers13]

Why would there be a second meeting if Kraft was going to release/trade Bill? 


@jeffphowe
Follow
Also in here, Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick had an initial discussion today with at least one more meeting expected to happen.

@jeffphowe
Josh McDaniels could return to Patriots if Bill Belichick remains as coach: Sources  https://theathletic.com/5188951/2024/01/08/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-bill-belichick/?source=emp_shared_article…
8:49 PM · Jan 8, 2024

That would be the biggest mistake or second biggest mistake this franchise will ever make, bringing Josh McDaniels back. We saw how he was with the Raiders...no thanks, stay far away from him. Don't want him ruining our new prospect.

There's some recency bias there. McDaniels won 6 Super Bowls. Yes, he had Tom Brady. Yes, he was a great coordinator. He was responsible for an offense that did things no other offense had done.

It seems like they're exploring keeping Belichick, which surprises me. I thought it would be a good time to restart.

I think McDaniels was considered to be the first heir apparent (10 years before Jerod Mayo) to the HC job.

[Moranis]

Why would there be a second meeting if Kraft was going to release/trade Bill? 


@jeffphowe
Follow
Also in here, Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick had an initial discussion today with at least one more meeting expected to happen.

@jeffphowe
Josh McDaniels could return to Patriots if Bill Belichick remains as coach: Sources  https://theathletic.com/5188951/2024/01/08/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-bill-belichick/?source=emp_shared_article…
8:49 PM · Jan 8, 2024

to get a list of teams he'd like to be traded to

[Goldstar88]

Why would there be a second meeting if Kraft was going to release/trade Bill? 


@jeffphowe
Follow
Also in here, Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick had an initial discussion today with at least one more meeting expected to happen.

@jeffphowe
Josh McDaniels could return to Patriots if Bill Belichick remains as coach: Sources  https://theathletic.com/5188951/2024/01/08/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-bill-belichick/?source=emp_shared_article…
8:49 PM · Jan 8, 2024

to get a list of teams he'd like to be traded to

Oh, Kraft is just waiting on Bill’s wish list. Of course.