Patriots 2023 Season

[Moranis]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

[Donoghus]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

Maybe they did but that should the starting point with the Pats if they're looking to move the #3 pick.

[Goldstar88]

The Pats should either trade up for their QB or trade back for additional assets.

A potential interesting trade

3

for

Fields, 9, 41, 2025 3rd

Chicago drafts Williams 1 and then moves up for Harrison or their top tackle at 3 (similar to what Houston did last year). New England gets a 2 year look at Fields, can still probably get a tackle at 9, and adds some extra depth.

That would be a truly awful return for the #3 overall pick. I wouldn't consider trading the pick unless it was Chicago's #9 pick and their first round pick in next year's draft.

using the value chart, that is the same value if you count Fields as valued around the 70th pick. 

Fields is significantly better than Mac.

Yes, significantly better. 

Mac Jones career:

46TD’s, 36INT’s, 8900 yards passing, 66% completion rate, 86 passer rating.

Justin Fields career:

40TD’s, 30INT’s, 6700 yards passing, 60% completion rate, 82 passer rating.

ah yes because we should give equal weight to all seasons and not the most recent one where Mac Jones got benched for Bailey Zappe.

Fields is better than Jones, not even close.  If the Bears called the Patriots and said we will trade you Fields for Jones straight up, are you telling me the Patriots wouldn't do it?  Or better, if the Patriots and Bears put both Fields and Jones on the open market, are you telling me they'd get a similar return?  I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that.

Maybe after Fields has one good season, which he hasn’t yet. Sure; he’s more physically gifted, but that’s not enough to have success at the QB position.

[Moranis]

The Pats should either trade up for their QB or trade back for additional assets.

A potential interesting trade

3

for

Fields, 9, 41, 2025 3rd

Chicago drafts Williams 1 and then moves up for Harrison or their top tackle at 3 (similar to what Houston did last year). New England gets a 2 year look at Fields, can still probably get a tackle at 9, and adds some extra depth.

That would be a truly awful return for the #3 overall pick. I wouldn't consider trading the pick unless it was Chicago's #9 pick and their first round pick in next year's draft.

using the value chart, that is the same value if you count Fields as valued around the 70th pick. 

Fields is significantly better than Mac.

Yes, significantly better. 

Mac Jones career:

46TD’s, 36INT’s, 8900 yards passing, 66% completion rate, 86 passer rating.

Justin Fields career:

40TD’s, 30INT’s, 6700 yards passing, 60% completion rate, 82 passer rating.

ah yes because we should give equal weight to all seasons and not the most recent one where Mac Jones got benched for Bailey Zappe.

Fields is better than Jones, not even close.  If the Bears called the Patriots and said we will trade you Fields for Jones straight up, are you telling me the Patriots wouldn't do it?  Or better, if the Patriots and Bears put both Fields and Jones on the open market, are you telling me they'd get a similar return?  I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that.

Maybe after Fields has one good season, which he hasn’t yet. Sure; he’s more physically gifted, but that’s not enough to have success at the QB position.

you didn't answer thr questions.

[Phantom255x]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

Some of this will also come down to development of our current guys in the O-Line like Mafi, Sow, etc. I think 1 or 2 of them will be fine at guard with some development. Still probably have Andrews and Strange who actually took good steps before getting hurt.

[Moranis]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

that is under the value. It is close depending on you rate the future picks.  I don't think the Pats can get 1 without 3 and a future 1st though, which may end up an overpay, but itnisnt just 1, it is 1 in a draft with 2 franchise QB. You have to overpay for that.

[Phantom255x]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

that is under the value. It is close depending on you rate the future picks.  I don't think the Pats can get 1 without 3 and a future 1st though, which may end up an overpay, but itnisnt just 1, it is 1 in a draft with 2 franchise QB. You have to overpay for that.

If that's what it takes, so be it. Replace 2025 2nd and 4th with the 2025 1st.

Some reports have recently come out in the last hour saying the Bears will likely trade #1 and keep Fields, Eberflus + GM (Ryan Poles) and use their high picks + additional assets to build around Fields.

So #1 is likely there for the taking. Depends how much NE covets Caleb Williams.

[Donoghus]

If Caleb Williams is available and the Bears stick with Fields, I propose the Patriots trade #3, #68, 2025 2nd and 2025 4th for #1. Have to hope the Commanders don't outbid us.

Pats get their guy. Bears take MHJ with #3, use their own pick on a tackle.

Pats still need some other pieces but I think they can still draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick at #34 (or maybe trade up a little again) and maybe hope to add a WR in FA like Higgins. Re-sign Onwenu.

Of course this is all wishful thinking if Belichick sticks around, but if you make a change, hopefully the next GM can get creative and prioritize real talent. Pats will have over 80M in cap space and in this scenario they'd get their QB. I don't think our WR group is that bad once you add a WR1. Douglas is a legit #2. Keep Bourne as a #3. Keep Hunter Henry. See if you can dump one of JuJu or Parker similar to how they did Jonnu Smith last season.

that is under the value. It is close depending on you rate the future picks.  I don't think the Pats can get 1 without 3 and a future 1st though, which may end up an overpay, but itnisnt just 1, it is 1 in a draft with 2 franchise QB. You have to overpay for that.

If that's what it takes, so be it. Replace 2025 2nd and 4th with the 2025 1st.

Some reports have recently come out in the last hour saying the Bears will likely trade #1 and keep Fields, Eberflus + GM (Ryan Poles) and use their high picks + additional assets to build around Fields.

So #1 is likely there for the taking. Depends how much NE covets Caleb Williams.

So dumb.  If they stupidly go that route, I hope they're at least firing the offensive coordinator.

[PAOBoston]

The Pats have so many holes on the offensive side they of the ball. I’m honestly ok with them drafting WR/OT/QB with the 3rd pick. My only thing with the QB is at that point, they may be taking the 3rd best QB which seems a little silly to me. I’d rather they get the best OT or WR available and see if they can get back into the 1st round or early 2nd round if there is a QB that slides.

It’s really hard to tell so early without any idea what the coaching staff will look like or why they do in free agency.

[boscel33]

Wouldn't surprise me if the Pats go with a vet, take MHJ and let Mac learn from that vet.  Pair him for a couple years with a Cousins and see what happens, let's not forget he was good in 2021 as a rookie!  With this D, Cousins with MHJ, Parker, Douglas, Bourne, Rhamondre plus draft a TE would be formidable.  Plus, they have over $70M in cap space (before signing Cousins). 

[Roy H.]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

I wonder if there's a world where the Bears take Williams and then try to move up from #9 to get Harrison.

NE trades:  #3

CHI trades:  #9, 2024 CHI 4th, CHI 2025 1st, CAR 2025 2nd, Justin Fields

[Vermont Green]

I suspect that QBs are going to go #1 and #2.  Even if the Bears decide to stay with Fields, they will just trade the #1 to someone who does want a QB, like they did last season.  So any scenario you want to play out I think should start with the assumption that Maye and Williams are gone.

That said, I an not for trading up.  Just ask the 49ers how that can go. Or Carolina for that matter.  If anything, I trade down if you don't want to use the #3 on Harrison or Daniels.

It will be interesting.

[Moranis]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

I wonder if there's a world where the Bears take Williams and then try to move up from #9 to get Harrison.

NE trades:  #3

CHI trades:  #9, 2024 CHI 4th, CHI 2025 1st, CAR 2025 2nd, Justin Fields

I proposed some variation of that in this thread. I didn't have the extra 1st, but had the 2nd rounder this year and next year along with Fields and 9.  Prompted a whole bunch of I'm an idiot even though I used the chart for value.

[Roy H.]

I imagine the starting point for a trade from a value standpoint would be something along the lines of the HOU trade last year to get Andersen. 

HOU: received #3 pick, #105 pick

AZ: received #12 pick, #33 pick, 2024 1st rounder & 2024 3rd rounder.

according to the chart, Houston significantly overpaid on that trade. Now maybe they've reset the market and that is the new normal, or maybe that will just be aberration like Watson's contract was.

I wonder if there's a world where the Bears take Williams and then try to move up from #9 to get Harrison.

NE trades:  #3

CHI trades:  #9, 2024 CHI 4th, CHI 2025 1st, CAR 2025 2nd, Justin Fields

I proposed some variation of that in this thread. I didn't have the extra 1st, but had the 2nd rounder this year and next year along with Fields and 9.  Prompted a whole bunch of I'm an idiot even though I used the chart for value.

Bears traded their second rounder this year for Montez Sweat.

I'm not sure the Pats would be a good fit for Fields, because the line and WRs need substantial work.  But, I do think the Pats could do a lot worse.  Basically, they'd be hoping for the same thing the Bears got by trading the pick last year:  a potential top-5 pick from a team that would be playing behind a rookie QB, along with their own top-10 pick.

[footey]

It will be interesting to see how the conversation changes after tonight's championship game.

If my binkie Penix has another standout game against Michigan's vaunted defense, his draft stock (already on the rise) will likely go even higher.

A few pages ago I proposed a trade down to around 7 to nab him there. Roy said that if we really like him, we should just draft him with our top pick (now 3).  I agree with him. 

Draft Penix!!!!