Author Topic: Patriots 2023 Season  (Read 300593 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1650 on: January 09, 2024, 03:49:47 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32531
  • Tommy Points: 1727
  • What a Pub Should Be
With Vrabel being fired, a dream scenario for Robert Kraft may have just presented itself. The only question that remains is, does Kraft have the stones to fire Bill.

Vrabel was 7-10 last year and 6-11 this season. All set with that. I’d rather keep Bill.

If we're bringing up the past two seasons, I seriously have to question if you followed the Patriots. The past two seasons are exactly why Bill has to go.

Past two seasons

Vrabel: 13-21
Belichick: 12-22

Why exactly are we enamored with Vrabel again?


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1651 on: January 09, 2024, 04:17:28 PM »

Online johnnygreen

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2419
  • Tommy Points: 308
With Vrabel being fired, a dream scenario for Robert Kraft may have just presented itself. The only question that remains is, does Kraft have the stones to fire Bill.

Vrabel was 7-10 last year and 6-11 this season. All set with that. I’d rather keep Bill.

If we're bringing up the past two seasons, I seriously have to question if you followed the Patriots. The past two seasons are exactly why Bill has to go.

Past two seasons

Vrabel: 13-21
Belichick: 12-22

Why exactly are we enamored with Vrabel again?

I said it was a dream scenario for Kraft, who loves familiarity. That was probably the main reason why he brought in Belichick to be the head coach over 20 years ago. Let's not forget, teams weren't exactly breaking down doors to go after Belichick at that time.

During Vrabel's Patriots Hall of Fame induction ceremony, Vrabel couldn't praise the organization and Kraft enough. Robert loves that and eats that up.

Vrabel is a known commodity, which owners like. I can't imagine Kraft moving on from Belichick, in favor of giving someone else their first head coaching job. I was thinking Bill O'Brian would be a good option, as he also has head coaching experience and was pretty good too. Unfortunately, he may have burnt some bridges this past season, so I'm not sure where he stands.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1652 on: January 09, 2024, 04:23:08 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37013
  • Tommy Points: 3376
  • On To Banner 19!
Gonna be honest, if their plan is to get Vrabel then I'd rather keep Belichick. Vrabel had a good run in 2019 with the Titans going to the AFCCG, but they've been mostly mediocre since as well. Maybe unfair, but there is a reason the Titans decided to let him go.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1653 on: January 09, 2024, 05:04:00 PM »

Online Goldstar88

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13310
  • Tommy Points: 1703
DraftKings Sportsbook released odds in select markets on where Belichick will coach in Week 1 of the 2024 season this week, and it could be Hollywood that comes knocking for the six-time Super Bowl winner.

The Chargers (+200), who fired head coach Brandon Staley and general manager Tom Telesco last month, are the leaders in the clubhouse for Belichick’s services next season.

New England, where Belichick has coached since 2000, has the second-best odds (+300) to have him on the sidelines next season.

They are followed by the Atlanta Falcons (+500) and Washington Commanders (+600), with the possibility that he coaches nowhere in 2024, which is also an option at +700.

Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1654 on: January 09, 2024, 06:21:55 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34433
  • Tommy Points: 1593
Gonna be honest, if their plan is to get Vrabel then I'd rather keep Belichick. Vrabel had a good run in 2019 with the Titans going to the AFCCG, but they've been mostly mediocre since as well. Maybe unfair, but there is a reason the Titans decided to let him go.
They are idiots. Should have fired the GM. That roster blows. Probably worse than Pats overall (better offensive skill players, but a worse defense and equally as bad OL)
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1655 on: January 09, 2024, 06:32:49 PM »

Online johnnygreen

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2419
  • Tommy Points: 308
Gonna be honest, if their plan is to get Vrabel then I'd rather keep Belichick. Vrabel had a good run in 2019 with the Titans going to the AFCCG, but they've been mostly mediocre since as well. Maybe unfair, but there is a reason the Titans decided to let him go.
They are idiots. Should have fired the GM. That roster blows. Probably worse than Pats overall (better offensive skill players, but a worse defense and equally as bad OL)

Tennessee was 11-5 in 2020 and 12-5 in 2021. The GM then traded AJ Brown to Philadelphia. Is it any coincidence that since that trade, Tennessee got worse, while Philadelphia turned into contenders? Just for that alone, the Tennessee GM should be fired.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1656 on: January 09, 2024, 06:36:24 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10118
  • Tommy Points: 345
Reading what little is out and trying to read between the lines, it sounds like Bill the coach is going to be back, but Bill the GM may not be

I sure hope so. I would absolutely hate it if we fired Bill the coach. He has earned the right to be here as long as he wants and it's not like there's any guarantee we are going to find anybody better. It's unbelievable how many people want him fired. Just a bunch of ungrateful brats imo.

Bringing back McDaniels also seems like the safest bet. Bill has always been fantastic on the defensive side of the ball and McDaniels clearly knows how to run an offense. I think it's safe to say the Pats have officially bottomed out - at least on offense - now it's time to build back up from here.

Things can always get worse actually. And do you know who was really ungrateful? Bill Belichick. He tried to dump Brady years ago for Jimmy G. Whoops! Then he finally pushed him out the door in 2019.

Because, as it has been reported, the Pats think they can turn any high school QB into an all-pro. Which is the height of hubris and disrespect.

Turns out that if you don't have an all-time great at QB then you actually need to draft well to have a functional offense. But unfortunately BB hasn't selected anybody good at catching the ball since he snagged Gronk and Edelman back in the aughts.

And honestly I'm tired of his meanspiritedness with the media. It's pathetic and is a terrible look for our franchise. Act like a professional and a decent human being. We're expected to believe he's some sort of victim here when his own behavior has been reprehensible. There's a reason so many fans and media commentators are dancing on his grave.

Bill has had a magnificent run but he also set himself up for everything he's getting right now.  Blaming the fans is just wrong.

With all that being said, I do still think he can coach. If he can truly put his ago aside and defer to a new GM, I would be amenable to giving him another shot as a coach only. But this isn't a lifetime appointment. This is a league where results matter, and the old must make way for the new. Bill knows this. He must adapt or fall on his sword gracefully. But we've seen the last few years has not been graceful, classy, or professional. It has been a dumpster fire replete with constant media leaks, hit pieces, and staff turnover, the hallmarks of dysfunctional organizations.

The last thing he or the franchise needs is continued drama and embarrassment. Maybe getting a full-time GM and keeping Bill as HC will improve things. Or it could send the apple cart tumbling off the cliff. As a fan I hope it's the former scenario. Nothing would be better than to climb back to the mountaintop with the coach who led us there six times prior.

A lot of what you write here reflects my view, especially this:

Quote
Turns out that if you don't have an all-time great at QB then you actually need to draft well to have a functional offense. But unfortunately BB hasn't selected anybody good at catching the ball since he snagged Gronk and Edelman back in the aughts.

I will add that I think Malcolm Mitchell was pretty good at catching the ball, as we saw in the SB win over the Falcons, but injuries derailed his career.

But otherwise, yeah, I think that Bill is really good at defense—drafting good players and running good schemes—but has very little skill with drafting and scheming for the offense. And the fact that he chose two defense/special teams guys to run the offense last season was ridiculous, and went as badly as many of us thought it would.

I do appreciate what Bill has done for the Pats over the last 20+ years, and I'd be fine with him staying on as  head coach as long as there's an actual GM and actual OC. Though, for the latter, I'm not as high on McDaniels as some others here—he seems to do really well until the team gets in the red zone, at which point he often gets too cute and the drive ends in a FG.
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.

C.S. Lewis

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1657 on: January 09, 2024, 08:25:35 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8131
  • Tommy Points: 535
Gonna be honest, if their plan is to get Vrabel then I'd rather keep Belichick. Vrabel had a good run in 2019 with the Titans going to the AFCCG, but they've been mostly mediocre since as well. Maybe unfair, but there is a reason the Titans decided to let him go.
They are idiots. Should have fired the GM. That roster blows. Probably worse than Pats overall (better offensive skill players, but a worse defense and equally as bad OL)
Should really fire the owners for not paying AJ Brown

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1658 on: January 09, 2024, 09:57:43 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34433
  • Tommy Points: 1593
Gonna be honest, if their plan is to get Vrabel then I'd rather keep Belichick. Vrabel had a good run in 2019 with the Titans going to the AFCCG, but they've been mostly mediocre since as well. Maybe unfair, but there is a reason the Titans decided to let him go.
They are idiots. Should have fired the GM. That roster blows. Probably worse than Pats overall (better offensive skill players, but a worse defense and equally as bad OL)

Tennessee was 11-5 in 2020 and 12-5 in 2021. The GM then traded AJ Brown to Philadelphia. Is it any coincidence that since that trade, Tennessee got worse, while Philadelphia turned into contenders? Just for that alone, the Tennessee GM should be fired.
that guy did get fired, they kept Vrabel at the time.  They have now fired him and kept the new GM after 1 year, but the roster is a lot worse now than even last year. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1659 on: January 09, 2024, 10:20:43 PM »

Online Goldstar88

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13310
  • Tommy Points: 1703
Trent Brown is at it again…  :laugh:


The Patriots tied for the lowest-scoring offense in the NFL this year. Brown said he believes it’s not all Mac Jones’s fault, though the quarterback did struggle mightily in his third season. Brown pointed to the decision to replace Josh McDaniels with Matt Patricia, as well as an inability to retain talent on the offensive line as issues that derailed Jones.

“If you pay Ted Karras, who played a hell of a season at left guard before he left to go to Cincinnati, I think that solves an issue,” Brown said. “I think if you don’t trade Shaq Mason, who’s an All-Pro guard, that solves an issue. I don’t think it was necessary for those moves to be made. And then to not really replace them with guys of their caliber.”

Brown said one of his issues with the team is the coaching staff messing with him.
“I’ve even heard from coaches how they’ll sit in staff meetings and they’ll be talking about how they can f–k with me,” Brown said. “Like, I guess trying to get me out of character or whatever. It’s really crazy to think that we’re spending time talking about that instead of getting better.”

Ultimately, Brown said he has some issues to settle with the Patriots but is open to returning if they can be fixed. “I’m not opposed to it,” Brown said. “I think before that would take place, some things would need to be hashed out and understood.”
One of the things the Patriots need to do a better job of understanding is how players want to be treated, Brown said.

“There just needs to be more attention on signing and drafting good players,” Brown said. “And also understanding that Foxboro is not a vacation spot. You’ve gotta spend some money to get good players, and you’ve gotta spend money to keep your good players in-house. And once they’re in-house, you’ve gotta treat them with some respect and common decency as a human being.”
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1660 on: January 09, 2024, 10:32:55 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18779
  • Tommy Points: 1118
Trent Brown is at it again…  :laugh:


The Patriots tied for the lowest-scoring offense in the NFL this year. Brown said he believes it’s not all Mac Jones’s fault, though the quarterback did struggle mightily in his third season. Brown pointed to the decision to replace Josh McDaniels with Matt Patricia, as well as an inability to retain talent on the offensive line as issues that derailed Jones.

“If you pay Ted Karras, who played a hell of a season at left guard before he left to go to Cincinnati, I think that solves an issue,” Brown said. “I think if you don’t trade Shaq Mason, who’s an All-Pro guard, that solves an issue. I don’t think it was necessary for those moves to be made. And then to not really replace them with guys of their caliber.”

Brown said one of his issues with the team is the coaching staff messing with him.
“I’ve even heard from coaches how they’ll sit in staff meetings and they’ll be talking about how they can f–k with me,” Brown said. “Like, I guess trying to get me out of character or whatever. It’s really crazy to think that we’re spending time talking about that instead of getting better.”

Ultimately, Brown said he has some issues to settle with the Patriots but is open to returning if they can be fixed. “I’m not opposed to it,” Brown said. “I think before that would take place, some things would need to be hashed out and understood.”
One of the things the Patriots need to do a better job of understanding is how players want to be treated, Brown said.

“There just needs to be more attention on signing and drafting good players,” Brown said. “And also understanding that Foxboro is not a vacation spot. You’ve gotta spend some money to get good players, and you’ve gotta spend money to keep your good players in-house. And once they’re in-house, you’ve gotta treat them with some respect and common decency as a human being.”


He's absolutely right. These coaches sitting on their hands making a mockery out of Trent and players but don't spend the time improving.

Nailed it on the o-line decimation and poor mismanaging of them. Spot on with the Matt Patricia, glad Patriot fans aren't the only ones who noticed this hindrance impacting Mac.


#FireJoe
#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown) 2022 - 2025
I am the Master of Panic.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1661 on: January 10, 2024, 08:30:44 AM »

Online boscel33

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2806
  • Tommy Points: 172
With Vrabel being fired, a dream scenario for Robert Kraft may have just presented itself. The only question that remains is, does Kraft have the stones to fire Bill.

Vrabel was 7-10 last year and 6-11 this season. All set with that. I’d rather keep Bill.

If we're bringing up the past two seasons, I seriously have to question if you followed the Patriots. The past two seasons are exactly why Bill has to go.

Past two seasons

Vrabel: 13-21
Belichick: 12-22

Why exactly are we enamored with Vrabel again?

When he had AJ Brown, he was really good, even with Tannehill as QB.
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1662 on: January 10, 2024, 09:03:04 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37013
  • Tommy Points: 3376
  • On To Banner 19!
Trent Brown is at it again…  :laugh:


The Patriots tied for the lowest-scoring offense in the NFL this year. Brown said he believes it’s not all Mac Jones’s fault, though the quarterback did struggle mightily in his third season. Brown pointed to the decision to replace Josh McDaniels with Matt Patricia, as well as an inability to retain talent on the offensive line as issues that derailed Jones.

“If you pay Ted Karras, who played a hell of a season at left guard before he left to go to Cincinnati, I think that solves an issue,” Brown said. “I think if you don’t trade Shaq Mason, who’s an All-Pro guard, that solves an issue. I don’t think it was necessary for those moves to be made. And then to not really replace them with guys of their caliber.”

Brown said one of his issues with the team is the coaching staff messing with him.
“I’ve even heard from coaches how they’ll sit in staff meetings and they’ll be talking about how they can f–k with me,” Brown said. “Like, I guess trying to get me out of character or whatever. It’s really crazy to think that we’re spending time talking about that instead of getting better.”

Ultimately, Brown said he has some issues to settle with the Patriots but is open to returning if they can be fixed. “I’m not opposed to it,” Brown said. “I think before that would take place, some things would need to be hashed out and understood.”
One of the things the Patriots need to do a better job of understanding is how players want to be treated, Brown said.

“There just needs to be more attention on signing and drafting good players,” Brown said. “And also understanding that Foxboro is not a vacation spot. You’ve gotta spend some money to get good players, and you’ve gotta spend money to keep your good players in-house. And once they’re in-house, you’ve gotta treat them with some respect and common decency as a human being.”


He's absolutely right. These coaches sitting on their hands making a mockery out of Trent and players but don't spend the time improving.

Nailed it on the o-line decimation and poor mismanaging of them. Spot on with the Matt Patricia, glad Patriot fans aren't the only ones who noticed this hindrance impacting Mac.

I'll also add, he's right. Why on earth did they just dump Shaq Mason for no reason? It just created a hole in the O-Line that's still pretty much open. And Trent Brown is pretty outspoken and makes his frustration obvious, but I'm sure there are others in the locker room feeling the same way when it comes to the lack of talent and coaching.

It's also obvious the entire coaching staff is basically Belichick's family. Joe Judge was absolutely awful last season along with Patricia and he actually got promoted to assistant HC lol (and a ST role). Unreal. And btw, special teams blow too even with Joe Judge "helping" Acchord  ::)

It was also pretty clear Patricia and Judge had "favorites" and biases. Kendrick Bourne has been one of our best receivers the last 3 seasons and they basically benched him a decent chunk of 2022 because he (rightfully) spoke against Patricia and said his "Shanahan system" wasn't working. Stupid. Bourne played for the Niners and likely knew it a whole lot more.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1663 on: January 10, 2024, 10:32:46 AM »

Online boscel33

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2806
  • Tommy Points: 172
Trent Brown is at it again…  :laugh:


The Patriots tied for the lowest-scoring offense in the NFL this year. Brown said he believes it’s not all Mac Jones’s fault, though the quarterback did struggle mightily in his third season. Brown pointed to the decision to replace Josh McDaniels with Matt Patricia, as well as an inability to retain talent on the offensive line as issues that derailed Jones.

“If you pay Ted Karras, who played a hell of a season at left guard before he left to go to Cincinnati, I think that solves an issue,” Brown said. “I think if you don’t trade Shaq Mason, who’s an All-Pro guard, that solves an issue. I don’t think it was necessary for those moves to be made. And then to not really replace them with guys of their caliber.”

Brown said one of his issues with the team is the coaching staff messing with him.
“I’ve even heard from coaches how they’ll sit in staff meetings and they’ll be talking about how they can f–k with me,” Brown said. “Like, I guess trying to get me out of character or whatever. It’s really crazy to think that we’re spending time talking about that instead of getting better.”

Ultimately, Brown said he has some issues to settle with the Patriots but is open to returning if they can be fixed. “I’m not opposed to it,” Brown said. “I think before that would take place, some things would need to be hashed out and understood.”
One of the things the Patriots need to do a better job of understanding is how players want to be treated, Brown said.

“There just needs to be more attention on signing and drafting good players,” Brown said. “And also understanding that Foxboro is not a vacation spot. You’ve gotta spend some money to get good players, and you’ve gotta spend money to keep your good players in-house. And once they’re in-house, you’ve gotta treat them with some respect and common decency as a human being.”


He's absolutely right. These coaches sitting on their hands making a mockery out of Trent and players but don't spend the time improving.

Nailed it on the o-line decimation and poor mismanaging of them. Spot on with the Matt Patricia, glad Patriot fans aren't the only ones who noticed this hindrance impacting Mac.

I'll also add, he's right. Why on earth did they just dump Shaq Mason for no reason? It just created a hole in the O-Line that's still pretty much open. And Trent Brown is pretty outspoken and makes his frustration obvious, but I'm sure there are others in the locker room feeling the same way when it comes to the lack of talent and coaching.

It's also obvious the entire coaching staff is basically Belichick's family. Joe Judge was absolutely awful last season along with Patricia and he actually got promoted to assistant HC lol (and a ST role). Unreal. And btw, special teams blow too even with Joe Judge "helping" Acchord  ::)

It was also pretty clear Patricia and Judge had "favorites" and biases. Kendrick Bourne has been one of our best receivers the last 3 seasons and they basically benched him a decent chunk of 2022 because he (rightfully) spoke against Patricia and said his "Shanahan system" wasn't working. Stupid. Bourne played for the Niners and likely knew it a whole lot more.

I think we were all expecting great things from the OL, new OL coach in Klemm who did some good things at the college level, but don't forget, he was away from the team for a while, then had a falling out with Groh it appears.  It's rumored that he won't be back.
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #1664 on: January 10, 2024, 03:03:52 PM »

Online Goldstar88

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13310
  • Tommy Points: 1703
Bob is really dragging this thing out…
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.