Celtics Off-Season News

[Vermont Green]

Theres really only 4 changes to our rotation if you break it down vs. last year:

Smart to White - its debateable whether smart at this point is better than White. I think at times last year smart was the lesser of the 3 talent wise of him/brogdon/white

Horford to Porzingis - I think this is an upgrade talent wise

White to Pritchard - this is a downgrade. but Pritchard I think is ready for an increased role

Grant to Horford - this is an upgrade as Horford is more talented.

Interesting way to look at it and a fair point. I still don't think we are done either.

I agree with this comparison.  Due to RWill's injury, we did not see the primary line up from 2021-22 in 2022-23, but this is what that line up would have been (or could have been) last season, if RWill was healthy at the start:

Smart - Brown - Tatum - Horford - RWill (Brogdon, White, Grant, Hauser)

This season we are looking to have:

White - Brown - Tatum - Porzingis - RWill (Brogdon, Pritchard, Horford, Hauser)

There are a few more pieces past the top 9 but they become less and less consequential.  People seem to count the losses but not gains.  The lose of Smart means that White becomes the starter, I see that as a pretty even swap.  Porzingis replaces Horford as a starter, that should be a clear upgrade.  Horford replaces Grant as a bench big, upgrade.  And Pritchard replaces White as a bench guard, a downgrade.

I see that as two upgrades, one even swap, and one downgrade.  The downgrade is at the least important or least vulnerable position relative to where the upgrades are.  I think what some overlook is that adding Porzingis allows us to add Horford to the bench.  Horford is replacing Grant, he is better than Grant, and he is less money.

The other thing I think people overlook is that RWill only played 35 games last season.  He is not coming off surgery this season.  Yes, he will miss some games, yes, his minutes will be managed, but I am willing to bet he plays way more than 35 games this season.

I think we are likely to use the TPE, but not use it just to use it.  They will use it if a good deal presents itself.  I also think that Champagnie is on the bubble and would be waived in a heartbeat if we had a chance to sign a vet min, maybe Wood or Oubre or Barton.  None of these match the 3/4 type that Stevens mentioned.  The reason not to rush to sign a FA is that Champagnie remains non-guaranteed.  I would think any of these FA would require a guaranteed contract. 

I have no problem with waiting.  Anyone we get with the TPE or vet min FA would probably not crack the regular rotation to start the season anyway.  The Celtics can be discerning.  Teams still have moving parts.  Teams will be more willing to deal as things settle down, as they get more clarity on their own needs and roster situation,

[Kuberski33]

Theres really only 4 changes to our rotation if you break it down vs. last year:

Smart to White - its debateable whether smart at this point is better than White. I think at times last year smart was the lesser of the 3 talent wise of him/brogdon/white

Horford to Porzingis - I think this is an upgrade talent wise

White to Pritchard - this is a downgrade. but Pritchard I think is ready for an increased role

Grant to Horford - this is an upgrade as Horford is more talented.

Interesting way to look at it and a fair point. I still don't think we are done either.

Also, please remember that Grant was a DNP and a reduced part of the lineup for a significant portion of the year.  I am not professing that it will work out this way, but it seems to be, based on what we hear from Brad and on what we are seeing in Summer League, that Walsh can take on the Grant role to some extent.

The failure to take advantage of Grant's skills was squarely on the coach. The same coach that I think cost this team a Championship last season.

But regarding the upgrades - if you are going to compare player to individual player in terms of talent level - maybe. But other than White, who's going to take charges?  How many deflections does this group get? How easily do they get bullied by the Heat and similar teams?  How often will they get outworked?

You just took away to of the guys who play the hardest when things count and are willing to do the little things - especially defensively - that help teams win close games.

I don't see that getting fixed with their current roster. I also don't think this group is going to be able to stop anyone when they really have to late in games. Expect a lot of games where they blow big leads and a lot of games where they fall apart in the last 4 minutes.

[Who]

Theres really only 4 changes to our rotation if you break it down vs. last year:

Smart to White - its debateable whether smart at this point is better than White. I think at times last year smart was the lesser of the 3 talent wise of him/brogdon/white

Horford to Porzingis - I think this is an upgrade talent wise

White to Pritchard - this is a downgrade. but Pritchard I think is ready for an increased role

Grant to Horford - this is an upgrade as Horford is more talented.

Interesting way to look at it and a fair point. I still don't think we are done either.

Also, please remember that Grant was a DNP and a reduced part of the lineup for a significant portion of the year.  I am not professing that it will work out this way, but it seems to be, based on what we hear from Brad and on what we are seeing in Summer League, that Walsh can take on the Grant role to some extent.

The failure to take advantage of Grant's skills was squarely on the coach. The same coach that I think cost this team a Championship last season.

But regarding the upgrades - if you are going to compare player to individual player in terms of talent level - maybe. But other than White, who's going to take charges?  How many deflections does this group get? How easily do they get bullied by the Heat and similar teams?  How often will they get outworked?

You just took away to of the guys who play the hardest when things count and are willing to do the little things - especially defensively - that help teams win close games.

I don't see that getting fixed with their current roster. I also don't think this group is going to be able to stop anyone when they really have to late in games. Expect a lot of games where they blow big leads and a lot of games where they fall apart in the last 4 minutes.

I expect turnovers and iso ball to be a major problem for this team. I expect that to cause them to blow a bunch of winnable games including in the playoffs.

[Vermont Green]

Just trying to recap where we stand regarding the second apron.  I am pulling numbers from Spotrac.  I think I understand but will summarize and anyone can correct or clarify as needed.  This is all based on the current roster of 14 players.

Current Active Cap:         $177,459,126 (this includes likely incentives, but not unlikely)
Current "Apron" Cap:       $179,405,557 (this includes unlikely incentives also)

Listed 2nd Apron Space:    $3,388,443 (worst case, assumes unlikely incentives met/paid)
Likely 2nd Apron Space:    $5,334,874 (better case, assume unlikely incentive not met)

So again, assuming I am interpreting all of this correctly, right now, we could trade with the TPE and bring back up to $5.3M in salary, have 15 players on the roster, and be under the 2nd apron, but we run the risk of going over if any of the unlikely incentives are met. (Some likely incentives could not be met also).

I believe that another realistic option is to waive Champagnie which would free up another $1,927,896, giving us $7,262,770 of space to the second apron (again risking the unlikely incentives).  In this case, we could trade with the TPE for the full $6.2M and be about $1M under the 2nd apron with 14 players, but hopefully with a significant upgrade in talent over Champagnie in the player we trade for.

If we waive Champagnie and do a trade with most or all of the TPE, it would be hard to fill the 15th roster spot with a min contract, unless we waive Kornet.  If we did waive Kornet, and depending on how much of the TPE we use, we would have in the range of $3.4M to sign 2 players.  They would need to be young, undrafted rookies or something.  Or we could sign one player that is better than Kornet and keep the roster at 14.  Or of course, just go a couple of $M over the 2nd apron.

Note:
White and RWill have unlikely incentives and likely incentives.  Brown has likely incentives only.  There is any combination of incentives that could be met so there is no way to know for sure where this will end up.  Here are the incentives:

White:   2023-24: LTBE: $750,000 (>= 70 regular season games, All-Defense), ULTBE: $500,000 (3PM >= 185)

RWill:   2023-24: LTBE: $0 (All-Defense), ULTBE: $1,446,431 (>= 69 regular season games, All-Defense, Confence Semifinals, Conference Finals)

Brown:   2023-24: LTBE: $3,321,428  (65 games played, 2nd Round, Conf Finals, Finals, All-NBA), ULTBE: $0

[Walker Wiggle]

On the idea that the team will blow a bunch of leads this season and struggle in the last few minutes of games… I actually think it will be the opposite. When the Celtics have collapsed late in recent seasons it’s been because of their offense. Porzingis totally changes what they can do when things get tight in the 4th quarter. I expect a lot of two-man ball with Tatum and Porzingis to get one of them isolated on a switch up high, which is going to be deadly, especially when you put three other shooters on the floor (for instance, Brown/Horford/White). Alternatively, you can try and post Porzingis, who was one of the most efficient post players in the league last year. That’s a low variance option late in games when the Celtics have a lead — it also limits the other team from running off of long rebounds on missed 3s — and they really had nothing like it last year.

[Vermont Green]

The NBA announced that the Bulls were granted a $10.2million Disabled Player Exception for the loss of Ball, allowing the team to have more cap space.  Ball went down to a season-ending knee injury and has not played since January 2022.  He underwent cartilage transplant surgery in March 2022, according to ESPN.

With the extra cap space, many presume the Bulls will hit the market and sign Wood.  Wood is arguably the best free agent remaining from the 2023 free agent class and could provide an instant scoring boost to any team.  The 27-year-old big man averaged 16.6 points and over seven rebounds a game last season for the Dallas Mavericks, yet only started 17 of 67 games played.

Twitter users are already suspecting Wood to sign in the Windy City.  One person said: "Christian Wood and Kelly Oubre, you are Bulls!"

This would make a lot of sense towards why Wood and Oubre have not signed anywhere.  CHI probably gave them some sort of promise that if they got a DPE, they would use it on them.

[Celtics2021]

The NBA announced that the Bulls were granted a $10.2million Disabled Player Exception for the loss of Ball, allowing the team to have more cap space.  Ball went down to a season-ending knee injury and has not played since January 2022.  He underwent cartilage transplant surgery in March 2022, according to ESPN.

With the extra cap space, many presume the Bulls will hit the market and sign Wood.  Wood is arguably the best free agent remaining from the 2023 free agent class and could provide an instant scoring boost to any team.  The 27-year-old big man averaged 16.6 points and over seven rebounds a game last season for the Dallas Mavericks, yet only started 17 of 67 games played.

Twitter users are already suspecting Wood to sign in the Windy City.  One person said: "Christian Wood and Kelly Oubre, you are Bulls!"

This would make a lot of sense towards why Wood and Oubre have not signed anywhere.  CHI probably gave them some sort of promise that if they got a DPE, they would use it on them.

Maybe, but the Bulls are only $8.5 million under the tax and have a $5.2 million qualifying offer to Dosunmu.  Because they used some of their MLE, they are subject to the hard cap at the first apron, and are $14.6 million clear of that.  They can maybe get one of them if they’re up for the tax, but they aren’t getting both unless they renounce Dosunmu, which would be surprising.

[Who]

The NBA announced that the Bulls were granted a $10.2million Disabled Player Exception for the loss of Ball, allowing the team to have more cap space.  Ball went down to a season-ending knee injury and has not played since January 2022.  He underwent cartilage transplant surgery in March 2022, according to ESPN.

With the extra cap space, many presume the Bulls will hit the market and sign Wood.  Wood is arguably the best free agent remaining from the 2023 free agent class and could provide an instant scoring boost to any team.  The 27-year-old big man averaged 16.6 points and over seven rebounds a game last season for the Dallas Mavericks, yet only started 17 of 67 games played.

Twitter users are already suspecting Wood to sign in the Windy City.  One person said: "Christian Wood and Kelly Oubre, you are Bulls!"

This would make a lot of sense towards why Wood and Oubre have not signed anywhere.  CHI probably gave them some sort of promise that if they got a DPE, they would use it on them.

Oh, I like Christian Wood for Chicago.

F: DeRozan
F: C Wood
C: Vucevic

That would help ease the burden on the frontcourt. Chicago too small. Get beaten up too much. Wood would give Vuce some legit help. Help their little wings like DeRozan can't give him at PF.

[SparzWizard]

Huh, Gabe Vincent told reporters about what led to an ugly Celtics exit against the Heat. He said "they had something going wrong over there (internally)..."

He's probably not wrong either. Some guys were lashing out on Joe in the middle of the series lol. And maybe that's one reason why Smart was traded. G-Will gone.

The fact this team started 0-3 against the Heat and just blew Game 7 at home very badly is very telling.

[Celtics2021]

Huh, Gabe Vincent told reporters about what led to an ugly Celtics exit against the Heat. He said "they had something going wrong over there (internally)..."

He's probably not wrong either. Some guys were lashing out on Joe in the middle of the series lol. And maybe that's one reason why Smart was traded. G-Will gone.

The fact this team started 0-3 against the Heat and just blew Game 7 at home very badly is very telling.

The Celtics lost Game 7 because Gabe Vincent himself sprained Tatum’s ankle.  Now, they might have gone 0-3 for some reasons that we’ll never know about (although the Heat being unconscious from 3 in Game 1 had something to do with it as well), but the Celtics “blew” Game 7 because of physical injuries, not emotional ones.

[Vermont Green]

What is up with TJ Warren.  He is still available.  Usually the second season back after a serious surgery is better than the first season back.  He is 6'-8", 29 years old (30 by start of the season), is he just completely lame now?  Has the injury done him in?

[Yuckabuck33]

Huh, Gabe Vincent told reporters about what led to an ugly Celtics exit against the Heat. He said "they had something going wrong over there (internally)..."

He's probably not wrong either. Some guys were lashing out on Joe in the middle of the series lol. And maybe that's one reason why Smart was traded. G-Will gone.

The fact this team started 0-3 against the Heat and just blew Game 7 at home very badly is very telling.

   Vincent said this on J.J. Reddick's podcast. He also said that the Celtics defense was better under Ime than Joe. I think he is seeing something real. (How many people here ridiculously said Marcus was a locker room problem?)
  What I'm wondering- With Brad as coach, there were internal problems such as with Kyrie, Rozier, jealousy over Gordy, etc. Nothing was done at the time, it festered, and a year was wasted. Last season may have been similar. If so, it was allowed to fester for a year and nothing was done until another year was wasted. There could be a pattern here. Why doed Brad let locker room turmoil fester and waste a whole season?

[ChillyWilly]

Huh, Gabe Vincent told reporters about what led to an ugly Celtics exit against the Heat. He said "they had something going wrong over there (internally)..."

He's probably not wrong either. Some guys were lashing out on Joe in the middle of the series lol. And maybe that's one reason why Smart was traded. G-Will gone.

The fact this team started 0-3 against the Heat and just blew Game 7 at home very badly is very telling.

   Vincent said this on J.J. Reddick's podcast. He also said that the Celtics defense was better under Ime than Joe. I think he is seeing something real. (How many people here ridiculously said Marcus was a locker room problem?)
  What I'm wondering- With Brad as coach, there were internal problems such as with Kyrie, Rozier, jealousy over Gordy, etc. Nothing was done at the time, it festered, and a year was wasted. Last season may have been similar. If so, it was allowed to fester for a year and nothing was done until another year was wasted. There could be a pattern here. Why doed Brad let locker room turmoil fester and waste a whole season?

my sauces told me Marcus is an issue and has been an issue for awhile even under Ime. Big reason our defense fell off was Marcus not buying in and actually pouting by playing sub Marcus defense until playoffs. He wasnt able to flip the switch. We give Marcus lots of passes but from what I'm told several people are happy he was moved.

[celticinorlando]

Huh, Gabe Vincent told reporters about what led to an ugly Celtics exit against the Heat. He said "they had something going wrong over there (internally)..."

He's probably not wrong either. Some guys were lashing out on Joe in the middle of the series lol. And maybe that's one reason why Smart was traded. G-Will gone.

The fact this team started 0-3 against the Heat and just blew Game 7 at home very badly is very telling.

   Vincent said this on J.J. Reddick's podcast. He also said that the Celtics defense was better under Ime than Joe. I think he is seeing something real. (How many people here ridiculously said Marcus was a locker room problem?)
  What I'm wondering- With Brad as coach, there were internal problems such as with Kyrie, Rozier, jealousy over Gordy, etc. Nothing was done at the time, it festered, and a year was wasted. Last season may have been similar. If so, it was allowed to fester for a year and nothing was done until another year was wasted. There could be a pattern here. Why doed Brad let locker room turmoil fester and waste a whole season?

my sauces told me Marcus is an issue and has been an issue for awhile even under Ime. Big reason our defense fell off was Marcus not buying in and actually pouting by playing sub Marcus defense until playoffs. He wasnt able to flip the switch. We give Marcus lots of passes but from what I'm told several people are happy he was moved.

I tend to agree with this. Don't think Smart bought in and was Joe's most vocal critic. Smart always felt like he was an alpha and in reality he was a good player. My guess is Ime got into Marcus and held him accountable (like most of the others) and Smart respected that. Don't think Smart got over Ime being let go.

Think Joe and others had their fill of Grant and his stupidity on the court in the regular season (the bumping of the official, the talking in Cleveland only to miss both free throws) and he got benched. Don't think Grant ever was coming back to Boston.


There was some sort of internal issue with that team. Didn't look like a lot of trust for the coach or each other.

[Goldstar88]

Adam Himmelsbach: According to multiple league sources, Celtics summer league standout Jay Scrubb has agreed to a two-way contract with Boston. – via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach