Celtics Off-Season News

[Celtics2021]

The Grant Williams S&T is complete.

Here is Boston's return as part of the three-team deal with Dallas and the San Antonio Spurs:

The more favorable of the Chicago Bulls' or New Orleans Pelicans' second-round pick in 2024

Dallas’ own 2030 second-round pick

The right to swap a previously-acquired 2025 second-round pick with Dallas' own 2025 second-round pick

I guess a tiny bit exciting if second rounders have more value in new cba, but if we don’t use the trade exception at all it is just stupid and pointless

The trade exception is coincidental with the second rounders.  This is a trade to get picks for a player they didn’t want, at least at the salary he was being offered.  It is not trading seconds to get an exception, as we did for Hayward and Fournier.  I wouldn’t expect them to use it.

I think not taking Grant at the MLE was foolish, but the value is in the picks.

[goCeltics]

I would have rather taken Bullock and the pick swap.

[boscel33]

Did I read correctly that Toronto could be back in on Brogdon?  They wanted him last year and have lost two PG's this off season.  IDK, if Siakam or what/who else would be involved, but something to keep an eye on.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Did I read correctly that Toronto could be back in on Brogdon?  They wanted him last year and have lost two PG's this off season.  IDK, if Siakam or what/who else would be involved, but something to keep an eye on.

Toronto and Chicago were the two I thought could be still interested in a starting quality veteran point guard. Chicago doesn't really have anything that makes sense for the Cs.

Toronto is interesting, but it really depends on how they value their core. I like OG, for example, but not at the cost that they are demanding for him. Boucher and Achiuwa both have interest for me, but I don't see anyone else that could help us this year.

We could potentially be a third team in a deal to get Siakim to the Pacers. If we brought back Theis and Hield to fill out some depth (neither would have much interest for the Raptors). Then the Pacers would send firsts and Nemhard back to Toronto. We'd need to throw in Kornet and Champagnie by my math to make it work.

That gives us a veteran backup guard that pairs well with Pritchard setting up his shooting, as well as a solid fourth big man.

[tonydelk]

Did I read correctly that Toronto could be back in on Brogdon?  They wanted him last year and have lost two PG's this off season.  IDK, if Siakam or what/who else would be involved, but something to keep an eye on.

Toronto and Chicago were the two I thought could be still interested in a starting quality veteran point guard. Chicago doesn't really have anything that makes sense for the Cs.

Toronto is interesting, but it really depends on how they value their core. I like OG, for example, but not at the cost that they are demanding for him. Boucher and Achiuwa both have interest for me, but I don't see anyone else that could help us this year.

We could potentially be a third team in a deal to get Siakim to the Pacers. If we brought back Theis and Hield to fill out some depth (neither would have much interest for the Raptors). Then the Pacers would send firsts and Nemhard back to Toronto. We'd need to throw in Kornet and Champagnie by my math to make it work.

That gives us a veteran backup guard that pairs well with Pritchard setting up his shooting, as well as a solid fourth big man.

That trade would leave the C's with PP as the backup PG playing 25mpg and Banton 3rd string playing as well.  I don't think this makes the C's better.  The C's need depth but not at the expense of making a position on the team really weak. 

[Atzar]

Did I read correctly that Toronto could be back in on Brogdon?  They wanted him last year and have lost two PG's this off season.  IDK, if Siakam or what/who else would be involved, but something to keep an eye on.

I don't think we match up as a trading partner for Toronto, personally.  Not unless a third team is involved. 

I also don't see the sense in trading Brogdon at this time.  We'd need another rotation-caliber guard coming back somehow. 

[kraidstar]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

[green_bballers13]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

I think the pessimists are waiting for the other shoe to drop- mainly, Brogdon getting hurt. By this logic, we aren't going to have Porzingis, Robert Williams, or maybe even Horford this year. Help- we're already down 4 players!

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Did I read correctly that Toronto could be back in on Brogdon?  They wanted him last year and have lost two PG's this off season.  IDK, if Siakam or what/who else would be involved, but something to keep an eye on.

Toronto and Chicago were the two I thought could be still interested in a starting quality veteran point guard. Chicago doesn't really have anything that makes sense for the Cs.

Toronto is interesting, but it really depends on how they value their core. I like OG, for example, but not at the cost that they are demanding for him. Boucher and Achiuwa both have interest for me, but I don't see anyone else that could help us this year.

We could potentially be a third team in a deal to get Siakim to the Pacers. If we brought back Theis and Hield to fill out some depth (neither would have much interest for the Raptors). Then the Pacers would send firsts and Nemhard back to Toronto. We'd need to throw in Kornet and Champagnie by my math to make it work.

That gives us a veteran backup guard that pairs well with Pritchard setting up his shooting, as well as a solid fourth big man.

That trade would leave the C's with PP as the backup PG playing 25mpg and Banton 3rd string playing as well.  I don't think this makes the C's better.  The C's need depth but not at the expense of making a position on the team really weak.

Fair enough. I tend to think Pritchard can be a solid backup, but I understand those who don't. I also think the offense runs through the Js anyway, so its not like we need primary creators like other teams might.

[Roy H.]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

Yikes.  Are you leaving off Brown or White?  Or classifying JB as a forward?

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

I think the pessimists are waiting for the other shoe to drop- mainly, Brogdon getting hurt. By this logic, we aren't going to have Porzingis, Robert Williams, or maybe even Horford this year. Help- we're already down 4 players!

Sadly, all of this could easily prove true. And I don't think that's pessimism as much as it is realism.

[Roy H.]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

I think the pessimists are waiting for the other shoe to drop- mainly, Brogdon getting hurt. By this logic, we aren't going to have Porzingis, Robert Williams, or maybe even Horford this year. Help- we're already down 4 players!

Sadly, all of this could easily prove true. And I don't think that's pessimism as much as it is realism.

Yeah...  The statistical likelihood is probably that Brogdon, Timelord and KP all miss 20+ games.  Let's hope it's not at the same time, and not in the playoffs.

[green_bballers13]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

I think the pessimists are waiting for the other shoe to drop- mainly, Brogdon getting hurt. By this logic, we aren't going to have Porzingis, Robert Williams, or maybe even Horford this year. Help- we're already down 4 players!

Sadly, all of this could easily prove true. And I don't think that's pessimism as much as it is realism.

Yeah...  The statistical likelihood is probably that Brogdon, Timelord and KP all miss 20+ games.  Let's hope it's not at the same time, and not in the playoffs.

Most of the best players missed significant time last year: https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/season/2023/seasontype/2

I think the new normal is to miss around 20 games.

I'm no more worried about our guys than any other team. In fact, many more teams are reliant on guys in their mid 30's.

[Roy H.]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

I think the pessimists are waiting for the other shoe to drop- mainly, Brogdon getting hurt. By this logic, we aren't going to have Porzingis, Robert Williams, or maybe even Horford this year. Help- we're already down 4 players!

Sadly, all of this could easily prove true. And I don't think that's pessimism as much as it is realism.

Yeah...  The statistical likelihood is probably that Brogdon, Timelord and KP all miss 20+ games.  Let's hope it's not at the same time, and not in the playoffs.

Most of the best players missed significant time last year: https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/season/2023/seasontype/2

I think the new normal is to miss around 20 games.

I'm no more worried about our guys than any other team. In fact, many more teams are reliant on guys in their mid 30's.

Do you believe in the concept of being injury-prone?  How do you interpret this data?

Williams:  41.8 games played per season since 2019
Brogdon:  55.4 games played per season since 2019
Porzingis:  43.2 games played per season since 2019

I personally don't include Horford among the major injury risks; he typically missed 10 to 15 games per season.  JB is similar:  probably 15 to 20 games missed based upon his track record.

But the first three guys, I see them in a special class of guys who are particularly injury-prone. 

[green_bballers13]

I don't get all the posts urging us to trade Brogdon. He might have the purest stroke on the entire team, and he's one of only 2 guards on the roster I trust in a playoff game.

We need him. Unless we're upgrading for another guard.

I think the pessimists are waiting for the other shoe to drop- mainly, Brogdon getting hurt. By this logic, we aren't going to have Porzingis, Robert Williams, or maybe even Horford this year. Help- we're already down 4 players!

Sadly, all of this could easily prove true. And I don't think that's pessimism as much as it is realism.

Yeah...  The statistical likelihood is probably that Brogdon, Timelord and KP all miss 20+ games.  Let's hope it's not at the same time, and not in the playoffs.

Most of the best players missed significant time last year: https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/season/2023/seasontype/2

I think the new normal is to miss around 20 games.

I'm no more worried about our guys than any other team. In fact, many more teams are reliant on guys in their mid 30's.

Do you believe in the concept of being injury-prone?  How do you interpret this data?

Williams:  41.8 games played per season since 2019
Brogdon:  55.4 games played per season since 2019
Porzingis:  43.2 games played per season since 2019

I personally don't include Horford among the major injury risks; he typically missed 10 to 15 games per season.  JB is similar:  probably 15 to 20 games missed based upon his track record.

But the first three guys, I see them in a special class of guys who are particularly injury-prone.

I don't think the past always tells us the future, and I don't think that players who have been hurt will continue to be hurt. For example, I wouldn't pass on signing Embiid or AD because they've missed a lot of time in the NBA.

I do think that injury prone players can continue to get hurt, and this risk is often baked into their price. I'm not sure that Porzingis and Brogdon would have been readily available to the Celtics if they averaged 70 games a year.

I would pass on older players, as I think there's a clear indicator that workload needs to be managed, even without injuries. This is often not baked into their price. Look at players like Lillard- he's making a ton of $ even though he played in 29 and 58 games the last two years. We're in trouble if Jaylen Brown gets paid $60m and misses 40 games.

If I'm truly concerned about players missing 20 games, I'm not sure that I would sign many of the top 20 players in the NBA.