Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[Roy H.]

  It still seems like just signing Grant is the best option, assuming the contract ceiling is around $12M.  And isn't his QO $12.9, so more than the MLE?

I think that's his cap hold, which is different than the qualifying offer.  The QO is $8,486,620.

[Birdman]

Dallas or Charlotte gotta overpay him

[Roy H.]

If P.J. Washington signed his QO, how soon could he be traded?  Is that immediate, or would it have to wait until December / January?

[Celtics2021]

If P.J. Washington signed his QO, how soon could he be traded?  Is that immediate, or would it have to wait until December / January?

January and he’d be able to veto trades because he would lose Bird rights if traded.

That said, if he did sign it, the Hornets could release Kobi Simmons and sign Grant to an offer sheet for about 4/57, about 10% more than the MLE, should they feel so inclined.

[Vermont Green]

  It still seems like just signing Grant is the best option, assuming the contract ceiling is around $12M.  And isn't his QO $12.9, so more than the MLE?

I think that's his cap hold, which is different than the qualifying offer.  The QO is $8,486,620.

Yes, right, so the floor is $8.5M and the ceiling is likely $12.4M.  So we could get him for less than $12M.

[Celtics2021]

  It still seems like just signing Grant is the best option, assuming the contract ceiling is around $12M.  And isn't his QO $12.9, so more than the MLE?

I think that's his cap hold, which is different than the qualifying offer.  The QO is $8,486,620.

Yes, right, so the floor is $8.5M and the ceiling is likely $12.4M.  So we could get him for less than $12M.

I think you're underselling the ceiling, and thus what we could get him for.  Any team that wants Grant for the MLE needs to work out a sign-and-trade with the Celtics.  Sign-and-trades are not limited to the MLE, and so if said team finds a third-party to take salary, they could offer Grant more than the MLE if it would induce him sign with their team over someone else.   For example, Dallas only has $5 million of room under the luxury tax and $12 million under the first apron hard cap that they are subject to, so they are likely to explore trading a contract to another team to create more room.  That has widely been reported as Tim Hardaway Jr. to San Antonio.  If they traded THJ, they would create a TPE larger than the MLE, and could thus sign Grant to more than that amount.  Likewise, the Knicks are reportedly interested in Grant, but they've already used the MLE.  They would presumably look to move Fournier somewhere else, and, again, could sign Grant to a deal larger than the MLE if they made such a move.  Grant's agents are still probably bringing up dollar amounts greater than the MLE to most of the teams that are interested, since they'd virtually all need to work out a sign-and-trade, and many of them would be trading away salary in such a deal.  So I don't think the C's get to negotiate from the position of "the MLE is your ceiling, so take less."

[Vermont Green]

  It still seems like just signing Grant is the best option, assuming the contract ceiling is around $12M.  And isn't his QO $12.9, so more than the MLE?

I think that's his cap hold, which is different than the qualifying offer.  The QO is $8,486,620.

Yes, right, so the floor is $8.5M and the ceiling is likely $12.4M.  So we could get him for less than $12M.

I think you're underselling the ceiling, and thus what we could get him for.  Any team that wants Grant for the MLE needs to work out a sign-and-trade with the Celtics.  Sign-and-trades are not limited to the MLE, and so if said team finds a third-party to take salary, they could offer Grant more than the MLE if it would induce him sign with their team over someone else.   For example, Dallas only has $5 million of room under the luxury tax and $12 million under the first apron hard cap that they are subject to, so they are likely to explore trading a contract to another team to create more room.  That has widely been reported as Tim Hardaway Jr. to San Antonio.  If they traded THJ, they would create a TPE larger than the MLE, and could thus sign Grant to more than that amount.  Likewise, the Knicks are reportedly interested in Grant, but they've already used the MLE.  They would presumably look to move Fournier somewhere else, and, again, could sign Grant to a deal larger than the MLE if they made such a move.  Grant's agents are still probably bringing up dollar amounts greater than the MLE to most of the teams that are interested, and since they'd virtually all need to work out a sign-and-trade, and many of them would be trading away salary in such a deal.  So I don't think the C's get to negotiate from the position of "the MLE is your ceiling, so take less."

That is all fair of course and if something like that happens and we trade him for a first round pick, so be it.  The Celtics would certainly be willing to match a MLE offer ($12.4M), I would think, no bluffing there, but I wonder how high they would go?  My sense is not much higher.  And even though it is possible for a team like DAL to clear salary and create a TPE (they already did this to take on Richaun Holmes), is this really something they are likely to do?  Send out a pick to dump Hardaway only to have to use another pick in a trade with the Celtics and overpay for a bench PF?

Of course the Knicks and the Mavericks are not known for their smart management savvy these days so who knows.

[Goldstar88]

Bobby Manning: This isn’t certain — but #Mavericks signing Thybulle might indicate the #Celtics planned to match a MLE offer to Grant Williams. – via Twitter RealBobManning

[gouki88]

Bobby Manning: This isn’t certain — but #Mavericks signing Thybulle might indicate the #Celtics planned to match a MLE offer to Grant Williams. – via Twitter RealBobManning

Love the phrasing. "This isn't certain", followed by complete speculation.

[BitterJim]

Bobby Manning: This isn’t certain — but #Mavericks signing Thybulle might indicate the #Celtics planned to match a MLE offer to Grant Williams. – via Twitter RealBobManning

Love the phrasing. "This isn't certain", followed by complete speculation.

This isn't certain, but this post indicates Keith Smith might plan on suing Bobby Manning for stealing his tweet style.

[Goldstar88]

And…He’s gone. Isn’t this basically what the C’s offered Grant as an extension over the summer?

Adrian Wojnarowski: Restricted free agent F Grant Williams is finalizing a four-year, $53 million sign-and-trade agreement to land with the Dallas Mavericks, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn

Shams Charania: Sources: The Dallas Mavericks, San Antonio Spurs and Boston Celtics are finalizing a three-team trade: – Mavs: Grant Williams – Spurs: Reggie Bullock and an unprotected Dallas pick swap in 2030 – Celtics: Multiple second-round picks – via Twitter ShamsCharania

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

And…He’s gone. Isn’t this basically what the C’s offered Grant as an extension over the summer?

Adrian Wojnarowski: Restricted free agent F Grant Williams is finalizing a four-year, $53 million sign-and-trade agreement to land with the Dallas Mavericks, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn

Shams Charania: Sources: The Dallas Mavericks, San Antonio Spurs and Boston Celtics are finalizing a three-team trade: – Mavs: Grant Williams – Spurs: Reggie Bullock and an unprotected Dallas pick swap in 2030 – Celtics: Multiple second-round picks – via Twitter ShamsCharania

So, I know that Boston was up against the second apron, but dang, this seems like a crappy return for Grant.

[celticsclay]

We definitely need to sign a legit vet now for frontcourt. Porzingas, Horford and Rob are not exactly three iron men you can pencil in for 30-35 minutes and 75 games.

[Who]

We definitely need to sign a legit vet now for frontcourt. Porzingas, Horford and Rob are not exactly three iron men you can pencil in for 30-35 minutes and 75 games.

More Kornet. Yay!

[Big333223]

I'm fine with it. Grant always seemed better on paper than he was in reality. I'd rather be playing Hauser and Brissett.

Hopefully there's some kind of plan for all these 2nd rounders, though.