Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap

[Kernewek]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

Bright colours aside, Josh Richardson, Schroeder, and Romeo are not really the same calibre of player to my eye. And, since any lineup featuring two or all of them for extended periods would probably result in a losing basketball game, I'm not sure it makes sense to treat them as additive in this sense.

[gouki88]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

If I recall correctly, all three of those guys received All-D votes and Al was top 10 DPOY.

"Solid"? Really?

[slamtheking]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

If I recall correctly, all three of those guys received All-D votes and Al was top 10 DPOY.

"Solid"? Really?

you think they're not solid?  there was speculation the rest of the starters got votes based on being part of the same defensive unit.  whether that's the case or not, I feel they're at least 'solid' if not better than that.

[slamtheking]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

Bright colours aside, Josh Richardson, Schroeder, and Romeo are not really the same calibre of player to my eye. And, since any lineup featuring two or all of them for extended periods would probably result in a losing basketball game, I'm not sure it makes sense to treat them as additive in this sense.

that's fine.  in a vacuum, I'd take White over Romeo and Schroder not only individually but combined.  it's the addition of Richardson to that equation where I hesitate.

again, I want White to succeed.  it benefits the team.  no one's rooting for him to suck even if they think the trade was an overpay. 

When reports about White's availability were being floated about, the going rumor was that no one was offering a first rounder.  I still think we either should have been able to get White for Richardson and Romeo OR Richardson and the first rounder.   My principle concern is that giving up those extra assets could short us in future deals that could improve this roster for another run or runs to a title.  let's be honest, most of us didn't see this level of success this year but are happy for it.  I really want to have this team contending for the next 6-7 years as the J's play through their prime here and that means using the assets wisely to put a good supporting cast around them. 

[droopdog7]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

Yean, we’re living in two different realities.  No sense in continuing this conversation. 

[Sophomore]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

Bright colours aside, Josh Richardson, Schroeder, and Romeo are not really the same calibre of player to my eye. And, since any lineup featuring two or all of them for extended periods would probably result in a losing basketball game, I'm not sure it makes sense to treat them as additive in this sense.

that's fine.  in a vacuum, I'd take White over Romeo and Schroder not only individually but combined.  it's the addition of Richardson to that equation where I hesitate.

again, I want White to succeed.  it benefits the team.  no one's rooting for him to suck even if they think the trade was an overpay. 

When reports about White's availability were being floated about, the going rumor was that no one was offering a first rounder.  I still think we either should have been able to get White for Richardson and Romeo OR Richardson and the first rounder.   My principle concern is that giving up those extra assets could short us in future deals that could improve this roster for another run or runs to a title.  let's be honest, most of us didn't see this level of success this year but are happy for it.  I really want to have this team contending for the next 6-7 years as the J's play through their prime here and that means using the assets wisely to put a good supporting cast around them.

You’re looking at what might have been the Cs’ leverage - maybe the market for DE wasn’t all that strong. Maybe. But even if that’s true, SA also had the option of not trading if they didn’t like the market. If they weren’t offered enough, keep him and roll to the end of the year.  He’s got three more years on his deal, they could wait for the off-season and see what the market would be then. Or maybe they get a great offer for one of their other combo guards and take that deal instead, keep White.

Boston didn’t want to waste another year of the Js and Brad and Ime clearly thought White could give the team some of the things  we are seeing now. You can’t go completely nuts to get your guy, but this level of play is well worth what they gave up if it helps you win a title.

[RockinRyA]

A lot is being made of white's performance after the trade when he's clearly not comfortable yet. White can perform well without stars around him, he did so with the spurs. Its just a matter of finding his comfort and confidence.

[Birdman]

Still can’t believe ppl are talking bout this trade..White has been good during the playoffs and we are in the Finals!!!

[hpantazo]

Still can’t believe ppl are talking bout this trade..White has been good during the playoffs and we are in the Finals!!!

and it's looking more likely that any pick(s) we gave up are of low value.

[gouki88]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

If I recall correctly, all three of those guys received All-D votes and Al was top 10 DPOY.

"Solid"? Really?

you think they're not solid?  there was speculation the rest of the starters got votes based on being part of the same defensive unit.  whether that's the case or not, I feel they're at least 'solid' if not better than that.

Quite the opposite. I think “solid” is borderline disrespectful to some of the best defenders at their positions.

And White is certainly elite on that end. Long, versatile, gets around screens well and has good lateral movement. He’s one of the best shot-blocking guards in the NBA

[slamtheking]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders. 

If I recall correctly, all three of those guys received All-D votes and Al was top 10 DPOY.

"Solid"? Really?

you think they're not solid?  there was speculation the rest of the starters got votes based on being part of the same defensive unit.  whether that's the case or not, I feel they're at least 'solid' if not better than that.

Quite the opposite. I think “solid” is borderline disrespectful to some of the best defenders at their positions.

And White is certainly elite on that end. Long, versatile, gets around screens well and has good lateral movement. He’s one of the best shot-blocking guards in the NBA

I think he's solid.  I don't think he's elite.  Elite is someone who's D is DPOY level.

[slamtheking]

After a really good game 1, White's back to playing how he did in the regular season (which I thought was ok at best and not good enough to justify the cost of the trade).   

Games 2-4 in the finals --> -17 in Game 2 (only player with a worse number was Tatum at -36), 4-13 with only 2 assists and 3 TOs; -12 in Game 3 (the only Celtic with a "-"), 3-9 with 2 assist and 1 TO; -19 ('led' the team in that category) in Game 4, 4-12 with 1 asst and 3 TOs. 

just not getting it done.  people all season liked to bring up his +/-  just take attention from his shooting woes but now he's not even able to support that argument

[gouki88]

After a really good game 1, White's back to playing how he did in the regular season (which I thought was ok at best and not good enough to justify the cost of the trade).   

Games 2-4 in the finals --> -17 in Game 2 (only player with a worse number was Tatum at -36), 4-13 with only 2 assists and 3 TOs; -12 in Game 3 (the only Celtic with a "-"), 3-9 with 2 assist and 1 TO; -19 ('led' the team in that category) in Game 4, 4-12 with 1 asst and 3 TOs. 

just not getting it done.  people all season liked to bring up his +/-  just take attention from his shooting woes but now he's not even able to support that argument

Single game +/- is one of the least useful stats in basketball

[slamtheking]

After a really good game 1, White's back to playing how he did in the regular season (which I thought was ok at best and not good enough to justify the cost of the trade).   

Games 2-4 in the finals --> -17 in Game 2 (only player with a worse number was Tatum at -36), 4-13 with only 2 assists and 3 TOs; -12 in Game 3 (the only Celtic with a "-"), 3-9 with 2 assist and 1 TO; -19 ('led' the team in that category) in Game 4, 4-12 with 1 asst and 3 TOs. 

just not getting it done.  people all season liked to bring up his +/-  just take attention from his shooting woes but now he's not even able to support that argument

Single game +/- is one of the least useful stats in basketball

it typically is.  we're talking 3 games in a row where he's either got the worst number in that stat for the team or next to worst

[MattyIce]

After a really good game 1, White's back to playing how he did in the regular season (which I thought was ok at best and not good enough to justify the cost of the trade).   

Games 2-4 in the finals --> -17 in Game 2 (only player with a worse number was Tatum at -36), 4-13 with only 2 assists and 3 TOs; -12 in Game 3 (the only Celtic with a "-"), 3-9 with 2 assist and 1 TO; -19 ('led' the team in that category) in Game 4, 4-12 with 1 asst and 3 TOs. 

just not getting it done.  people all season liked to bring up his +/-  just take attention from his shooting woes but now he's not even able to support that argument

Single game +/- is one of the least useful stats in basketball

it typically is.  we're talking 3 games in a row where he's either got the worst number in that stat for the team or next to worst

let's win this, that should end this discussion...albeit it won't