Shams: Celtics Interested In Simmons

[Ogaju]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

[blink]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

Do you mean the playmaker that completely quit on his team that gave him a 177 Million dollar contract because he couldn't handle any criticism? 
Or do you mean the playmaker that was a complete embarrassment during the last playoffs? 
Or maybe you mean the playmaker that is lucky to shoot 60% from the ft line, and is borderline un-playable at the end of close games?
Is this the player you are talking about?

[seancally]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

Do you mean the playmaker that completely quit on his team that gave him a 177 Million dollar contract because he couldn't handle any criticism? 
Or do you mean the playmaker that was a complete embarrassment during the last playoffs? 
Or maybe you mean the playmaker that is lucky to shoot 60% from the ft line, and is borderline un-playable at the end of close games?
Is this the player you are talking about?

Honestly the “he quit on the team” argument doesn’t hold water. Are you against AD or Harden because they quit on their teams? At a certain point, talent is more important. We can discuss if Simmons meets that criteria but I honestly don’t care about that.

When we talk about his offensive struggles, we mean his shooting and FT percentage. He is otherwise an except passer, playmaker, cutter and finisher in the open court. He is DRAMATICALLY better at those things than Smart. Dramatically.

His size and defensive prowess is also superior. The last season was a debacle and it got ugly for him. But Philly has also failed Markell Fultz. They failed to fold in Jimmy Butler. They threw Simmons under the bus after his lowest playoff moment on the world stage. Imagine if Brad said about Tatum or Brown “I don’t know if they’re good enough.” They’d feel some type of way about that, and so would we.

Don’t trade Brown. But if we can bring in Simmons for players whose names don’t start with Jay, I’m in.

[td450]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

There are really only two questions here:

1. Can Simmons to be a reasonably content, cooperative player?

2. Can he just get to the point as a free throw shooter where you can play him under 4th quarter pressure? He wouldn't have to be a reliable scorer, just a tolerable free throw shooter.

You would think a 1st pick would be able to deliver on those two, but he hasn't so far.

Otherwise, he'd be particularly good for us. If you were to ask me what 3 things the team needs most, I'd say an elite playmaker, a power forward who can really defend and someone to push the pace in transition because we have Brown and Tatum, and its stupid to play slow. He gives you all three of those things.

[blink]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

Do you mean the playmaker that completely quit on his team that gave him a 177 Million dollar contract because he couldn't handle any criticism? 
Or do you mean the playmaker that was a complete embarrassment during the last playoffs? 
Or maybe you mean the playmaker that is lucky to shoot 60% from the ft line, and is borderline un-playable at the end of close games?
Is this the player you are talking about?

Honestly the “he quit on the team” argument doesn’t hold water.  

It holds water to me.  He stunk it up in the playoffs, got mildly criticized by his coach, then instead of working on the deficiencies to GET BETTER (like JT and JB have done), he decides that he is done with Philly.  That to me is literally the definition of quiting on his team. 

I don't care what bs that AD or Harden pulled to get themselves traded.  Who cares...

I don't think we should trade Jaylen, no way.  I am just questioning if it is worth it to bring Simmon in at all, where we seemingly already have locker room issues, aren't living up to our potential talent as a team. 

I am not saying I wouldn't do the trade no matter what, but you better be real sure you can rehab Simmon's trade value or you are going to be stuck with a 35 mil, 38 mil, 40 million boat anchor cap issue in a couple of years.  It's a gamble.  It feels like Ben doesn't give a crap about becoming a great nba player, if you can't get him to change his attitude it isn't worth it.

[seancally]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

Do you mean the playmaker that completely quit on his team that gave him a 177 Million dollar contract because he couldn't handle any criticism? 
Or do you mean the playmaker that was a complete embarrassment during the last playoffs? 
Or maybe you mean the playmaker that is lucky to shoot 60% from the ft line, and is borderline un-playable at the end of close games?
Is this the player you are talking about?

Honestly the “he quit on the team” argument doesn’t hold water.  

It holds water to me.  He stunk it up in the playoffs, got mildly criticized by his coach, then instead of working on the deficiencies to GET BETTER (like JT and JB have done), he decides that he is done with Philly.  That to me is literally the definition of quiting on his team. 

I don't care what bs that AD or Harden pulled to get themselves traded.  Who cares...

You’re right, nobody cares about what they pulled. Talent matters more. You still trade for AD or Harden if you can because they’re that good.

In any case he’s certainly a good enough player, warts and all, to be a meaningful part of a championship team in my opinion. 2nd or 3rd best player.

[blink]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

Do you mean the playmaker that completely quit on his team that gave him a 177 Million dollar contract because he couldn't handle any criticism? 
Or do you mean the playmaker that was a complete embarrassment during the last playoffs? 
Or maybe you mean the playmaker that is lucky to shoot 60% from the ft line, and is borderline un-playable at the end of close games?
Is this the player you are talking about?

Honestly the “he quit on the team” argument doesn’t hold water.  

It holds water to me.  He stunk it up in the playoffs, got mildly criticized by his coach, then instead of working on the deficiencies to GET BETTER (like JT and JB have done), he decides that he is done with Philly.  That to me is literally the definition of quiting on his team. 

I don't care what bs that AD or Harden pulled to get themselves traded.  Who cares...

You’re right, nobody cares about what they pulled. Talent matters more. You still trade for AD or Harden if you can because they’re that good.

In any case he’s certainly a good enough player, warts and all, to be a meaningful part of a championship team in my opinion. 2nd or 3rd best player.

No, I never said the bolded.  I just said for this Ben Simmons trade issue that it doesn't matter what they did.  Also, imo Simmons isn't anywhere near AD / Harden level.
 
Who knows where Simmons wants to be?  Will he just pull the whole thing again at his next team when the next coach decides to give him a little mild criticism? 
Simmons certainly hasn't gotten Philly over the top in the past 4 years, so I am not sure why we should think that he is the missing piece for our next championship team.   He is a great defensive player when engaged, and a unique player.  But if you are paying a player 113 million over the next 3 years you really have to hope that they can transform your team.  Not sure that Ben will do that.

[Kiorrik]

Reason a lot of us don't like Bimmons is that when you get called out for disappearing during a playoff series ...

... your response shouldn't be to disappear for the offseason, training camp, practice, and the start of the season.

Legit, if you get critiqued for something, and your response is to purposefully do the opposite of getting better at it ...

Doesn't sound much like blue collar work hard Boston attitude.

In fact, I hate it.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Reason a lot of us don't like Bimmons is that when you get called out for disappearing during a playoff series ...

... your response shouldn't be to disappear for the offseason, training camp, practice, and the start of the season.

Legit, if you get critiqued for something, and your response is to purposefully do the opposite of getting better at it ...

Doesn't sound much like blue collar work hard Boston attitude.

In fact, I hate it.

Mostly agree. I don't object of having Simmons on board, it's the cost of getting him that is an issue.

[Jvalin]

Smart, Richardson, Grant, our overseas stashes, three #1s and two pick swaps.  Have them throw in Isaiah Joe and Paul Reed to balance the rosters.

That leaves us:

Horford / Timelord / Kanter
Simmons / Parker / Herangomez
Tatum / Nesmith
Brown / Langford
Schroder / Pritchard

It’s a pipe dream that Philly would trade within their division, but maybe Brad has some blackmail material.

This would be a legit contending team in my book. I'd start Pritchard over Schroder for better spacing next to Simmons. I'd also be inclined to part ways with Timelord cause he'd be a terrible fit next to Simmons. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Schroder. If we kept him, he'd make a decent 6th man. He can change the pace of the game with his explosiveness. But yeah, like you said, the whole idea is probably a pipe dream.

[sgrogan]

Reason a lot of us don't like Bimmons is that when you get called out for disappearing during a playoff series ...

... your response shouldn't be to disappear for the offseason, training camp, practice, and the start of the season.

Legit, if you get critiqued for something, and your response is to purposefully do the opposite of getting better at it ...

Doesn't sound much like blue collar work hard Boston attitude.

In fact, I hate it.

He's a better paid Marcus Smart. Money aside Simmons is the better player.

Brown
Tatum
Simmons

Is interesting. I think they all have at least 3 yrs left on their contracts. I don't see a realistic way to do it, but if possible the above is the best core since banner 17,

[Rosco917]

Tatum for Simmons, Korkmaz, and Seth, and i listen.

TP for having balls.

[hpantazo]

I can see the appeal of trading Smart, Timelord, and picks for Simmons, but if the guy can't handle the pressure in Philly, there's no way he's going to make it in Boston.

[ozgod]

Man the more I think about this trade the angrier I get.

We're a team with consistency issues. A team that lacks that grit and fire. Need someone that takes the lead, enforces, gets angry

And you're gonna get the shyest person ever to play in the NBA? :]]

@Kiorrik he is unlike any Australian athlete I’ve heard of…most of them have strong work ethics, play hard and compete hard and make the most of their talent, like Patty Mills, Aron Baynes, Joe Ingles, Michael Dickson, Jordan Mailata…while this guy had so much talent but continues to do bare minimum. Mind boggling. I really do think there’s something wrong with him mentally…narcissism or something.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

It seems like most agree that Simmons for Brown is a bad idea for the Celtics.

I think most would accept Simmons in a package that didn't include Tatum or Brown. Simmons is a good defender with size.

Does Philly accept this? If so, make it happen.

If not, no way. I think both Tatum and Brown will have better careers than Simmons. I don't think that's a hot take.