Shams: Celtics Interested In Simmons

[BringToughnessBack]

Well, know Shams says Celtics never offered or entertained Brown for Simmons which makes sense. In what wild world would we want to help the Sixers win multiple titles by sending Brown to pair with Embiid.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/shams-boston-celtics-didn-t-220849118.html

[Atzar]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

...you don't remember the Markelle Fultz saga? 

The 76ers' recent track record of developing young players does not exactly sparkle.  They had a treasure trove of early draft picks and Embiid is the only one who worked out.  Missing on one or two guys is one thing - happens to every franchise - but if you're continually fumbling premium talent, then it's fair to ask some questions about the organization itself.

This doesn't absolve Simmons of responsibility in this whole mess, but it's not his to bear alone, either.

[Moranis]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

well publicly selling your player out and then not defending him as the media crushes him for months is not exactly creating a warm and fuzzy place to play.

[celticsclay]

First he demanded a trade, then he said he didn’t want to play with Embid, then he said he wanted to be somewhere that was built around him, then he said his back hurt, then when it was reported that rich paul and Ben would not get money that was fined per the cba (it was reported rich paul did not know how cba worked and asked the players association) he reported mental health problems. If it isn’t obvious to you what is going on here with this string of events I don’t know what to tell you. And frankly what rich paul is doing is very offensive. “My client is having his mental health aggravated by media coverage so I’m going to go share statements that will make his mental health the number one nba story. Between this and the Noel stuff that came out he seems like a really crappy agent. But worst of all he is increasing stigma around mental health by the above string of events.

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

Well, know Shams says Celtics never offered or entertained Brown for Simmons which makes sense. In what wild world would we want to help the Sixers win multiple titles by sending Brown to pair with Embiid.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/shams-boston-celtics-didn-t-220849118.html

It's always a pleasure to observe that Brad Stevens and celtics management staff are smarter and more responsible than many of the media members reporting things that make no sense. 

[bricone29]

First he demanded a trade, then he said he didn’t want to play with Embid, then he said he wanted to be somewhere that was built around him, then he said his back hurt, then when it was reported that rich paul and Ben would not get money that was fined per the cba (it was reported rich paul did not know how cba worked and asked the players association) he reported mental health problems. If it isn’t obvious to you what is going on here with this string of events I don’t know what to tell you. And frankly what rich paul is doing is very offensive. “My client is having his mental health aggravated by media coverage so I’m going to go share statements that will make his mental health the number one nba story. Between this and the Noel stuff that came out he seems like a really crappy agent. But worst of all he is increasing stigma around mental health by the above string of events.

Agreed. This is why mental health issues. Among other tissues, get eye rolls because of ppl like this who are using it as a device to get what they want. I wish the public would have more outrage towards this stuff

[Vermont Green]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

...you don't remember the Markelle Fultz saga? 

The 76ers' recent track record of developing young players does not exactly sparkle.  They had a treasure trove of early draft picks and Embiid is the only one who worked out.  Missing on one or two guys is one thing - happens to every franchise - but if you're continually fumbling premium talent, then it's fair to ask some questions about the organization itself.

This doesn't absolve Simmons of responsibility in this whole mess, but it's not his to bear alone, either.

Fair point on Markelle Fultz.  Yes, he was a head case also.  He didn't really improve all that much when he left Philly though.  I will concede that perhaps Philly didn't handle Simmons the best they could have but I don't think all his problems are going to magically disappear in a new setting either.  I think they pretty much handled Simmons like they would any other player but for Simmons, that led to problems.  The new team can hopefully learn from Philly's mistakes and handle it better but the need to deal with Simmons' mental fitness is not going to go away entirely.

I think one of the issues is that players come into the league so young.  Many can handle that fine but it messes up some.  I think Fultz and Simmons are examples of this but there have been others.  I guess some teams handle this better than others.   I am not sure where the Celtics are in this.  Clearly Brown and Tatum have been fine as very young rookies but is this more about the Celtics or about the players?  RWilliams had to work through a period of maturation as have Langford and Nesmith.  GWilliams and Pritchard (who was not nearly as young) were fine.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Could you argue Noel, Okafor, Wroten, MCW, etc. all experienced a level of toxic work environment that impacted their careers and earnings?

I think Doc and Brand would both be decent guys to work for, but hiring them doesn't immediately clean up the toxicity that was in the air for years. Anyone who has worked for a company knows that.

I don't mind Ben Simmons wanting out. Philly sucks. Their fans suck. Their organization did not develop players or create an environment to develop young men.

One of the biggest problems, however, is that Boston's fans can be right there with Philly in terms of their toxicity. They get a weird pleasure from being pessimistic about every little thing with their sports teams. There is no doubt they are knowledgable fans, but they're also negative fans. All of that to say that I could see Boston fans turning pretty quick on Simmons, even if he was legitimately good for this team.

It's sad, really.

[td450]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

well publicly selling your player out and then not defending him as the media crushes him for months is not exactly creating a warm and fuzzy place to play.

Toxic? I guess words don't mean anything any more. He's a top tier professional basketball player. He performed very badly,and that included behavior which most observers interpreted as giving up. There are tens of thousands of other guys fighting for these spots. A coach and an elite player offered unusually candid but not particularly severe comments.

That may or may not have been wise strategically, but is wasn't a lie and it wasn't extreme, except for the expectation that any criticism remain in-house. We don't know how badly Simmons behaved behind the scenes. But you are calling this toxic.

It is impossible to make these jobs safe spaces for emotionally fragile people. Top tier sports is a Squid Game like tournament of mental toughness. The performance pressure and the intense public scrutiny are impossible to avoid. That's a big part of why someone can command north of $30M to play a game.

The Celtics would be gambling any chance at a title for the foreseeable future on the hope that Simmons will shed his persistent fragility and disingenuousness. Who wants to root for that? I don't

[dannyboy35]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

...you don't remember the Markelle Fultz saga? 

The 76ers' recent track record of developing young players does not exactly sparkle.  They had a treasure trove of early draft picks and Embiid is the only one who worked out.  Missing on one or two guys is one thing - happens to every franchise - but if you're continually fumbling premium talent, then it's fair to ask some questions about the organization itself.

This doesn't absolve Simmons of responsibility in this whole mess, but it's not his to bear alone, either.

   
     
   I thought Philly did a great job at protecting Fultz. I mean it was crazy not knowing what was going on as a fan. So as far as I know they treated him well. I still don’t know the story there. Simmons was the easy pick and everyone was making that one. I don’t know how much to blame Philly for not making more of a stink early to get him to work on his game for others.
   I do think Philly reacted badly after the loss. Simmons failure soth himself snd his coworkers, organization/ fans is without question. It’s pretty bad. There’s not a good reason to trust the guy. But losing JB, Reddick after that Leonard bounce of the ball. Giving Toby Harris the max. Not good.
   If I’m Philly I’m hoping he changes his mind snd also gets to work on shooting for the first time.

[mef730]

I think the real question is does Simmons make our def so much better that it offsets his offensive struggles and his huge contract?  Smart is still a heck of a defender who isn't afraid to show up in the playoffs.

do we become instant co-favorites in the east if we make this trade?  Honestly I am still not completely convinced.

Simmons brings more than defense. He is a playmaker with size the Cs desperately need.

Do you mean the playmaker that completely quit on his team that gave him a 177 Million dollar contract because he couldn't handle any criticism?...
Is this the player you are talking about?

Fortunately, if there's anything that the Boston media is known for, it's kindness and understanding.

Mike

[Moranis]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

well publicly selling your player out and then not defending him as the media crushes him for months is not exactly creating a warm and fuzzy place to play.

Toxic? I guess words don't mean anything any more. He's a top tier professional basketball player. He performed very badly,and that included behavior which most observers interpreted as giving up. There are tens of thousands of other guys fighting for these spots. A coach and an elite player offered unusually candid but not particularly severe comments.

That may or may not have been wise strategically, but is wasn't a lie and it wasn't extreme, except for the expectation that any criticism remain in-house. We don't know how badly Simmons behaved behind the scenes. But you are calling this toxic.

It is impossible to make these jobs safe spaces for emotionally fragile people. Top tier sports is a Squid Game like tournament of mental toughness. The performance pressure and the intense public scrutiny are impossible to avoid. That's a big part of why someone can command north of $30M to play a game.

The Celtics would be gambling any chance at a title for the foreseeable future on the hope that Simmons will shed his persistent fragility and disingenuousness. Who wants to root for that? I don't

I'm not the one that called him a liar and a faker.  You are.  I was merely pointing out that quite often people have mental health issues because of their environment and when their environment changes the mental health issues go away.  It doesn't mean they were lying about those mental health issues. 

[celticsclay]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

well publicly selling your player out and then not defending him as the media crushes him for months is not exactly creating a warm and fuzzy place to play.

Toxic? I guess words don't mean anything any more. He's a top tier professional basketball player. He performed very badly,and that included behavior which most observers interpreted as giving up. There are tens of thousands of other guys fighting for these spots. A coach and an elite player offered unusually candid but not particularly severe comments.

That may or may not have been wise strategically, but is wasn't a lie and it wasn't extreme, except for the expectation that any criticism remain in-house. We don't know how badly Simmons behaved behind the scenes. But you are calling this toxic.

It is impossible to make these jobs safe spaces for emotionally fragile people. Top tier sports is a Squid Game like tournament of mental toughness. The performance pressure and the intense public scrutiny are impossible to avoid. That's a big part of why someone can command north of $30M to play a game.

The Celtics would be gambling any chance at a title for the foreseeable future on the hope that Simmons will shed his persistent fragility and disingenuousness. Who wants to root for that? I don't

I'm not the one that called him a liar and a faker.  You are.  I was merely pointing out that quite often people have mental health issues because of their environment and when their environment changes the mental health issues go away.  It doesn't mean they were lying about those mental health issues.

So you are taking it in good faith that after demanding a trade, saying he didn’t want to play with Embid, saying he wanted to be the centerpiece of an offense, saying he preferred to play with one of the three California teams, said his back hurt, had rich paul confirm with the players association that the 76ers could withhold his money , THEN says he has mental health problems as 7th reason for not playing. You buying that? Really?

[Vermont Green]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

well publicly selling your player out and then not defending him as the media crushes him for months is not exactly creating a warm and fuzzy place to play.

Toxic? I guess words don't mean anything any more. He's a top tier professional basketball player. He performed very badly,and that included behavior which most observers interpreted as giving up. There are tens of thousands of other guys fighting for these spots. A coach and an elite player offered unusually candid but not particularly severe comments.

That may or may not have been wise strategically, but is wasn't a lie and it wasn't extreme, except for the expectation that any criticism remain in-house. We don't know how badly Simmons behaved behind the scenes. But you are calling this toxic.

It is impossible to make these jobs safe spaces for emotionally fragile people. Top tier sports is a Squid Game like tournament of mental toughness. The performance pressure and the intense public scrutiny are impossible to avoid. That's a big part of why someone can command north of $30M to play a game.

The Celtics would be gambling any chance at a title for the foreseeable future on the hope that Simmons will shed his persistent fragility and disingenuousness. Who wants to root for that? I don't

I'm not the one that called him a liar and a faker.  You are.  I was merely pointing out that quite often people have mental health issues because of their environment and when their environment changes the mental health issues go away.  It doesn't mean they were lying about those mental health issues.

So you are taking it in good faith that after demanding a trade, saying he didn’t want to play with Embid, saying he wanted to be the centerpiece of an offense, saying he preferred to play with one of the three California teams, said his back hurt, had rich paul confirm with the players association that the 76ers could withhold his money , THEN says he has mental health problems as 7th reason for not playing. You buying that? Really?

Celticsclay, nothing you are saying is wrong, it can all be true and the fact that Simmons is not 100% mentally fit can also be true.  I am not going as far as Moranis and attributing it to the "toxic" environment (although that doesn't mean the environment didn't have some contribution), I think Simmons really does have some issues.  His behavior has been erratic and irrational.  Isn't that a symptom of some underlying mental health issue in and of itself?

[celticsclay]

Or Philly is a toxic work environment for him and that is what he is struggling with and when he gets out of the toxic environment those issues and concerns are alleviated.  We see this all of the time with employees that are sexually harassed and can't function well in the environment they were in, whereas they get transferred or the harasser gets terminated and their outlook improves significantly (and I'm not comparing a person that was sexually harassed with Simmons just showing how your actual environment can significantly contribute to your mental well being).  So Simmons very well might have mental health issues associated with being with the Sixers that once he is no longer on the Sixers alleviate themselves.

What have the Sixers done to make the environment "toxic" for Simmons and not toxic for any other players?  I agree with the that the environment can be an issue in a general sense but I am not sure I see it here.  I think the fundamental issue for Simmons is dealing with pressure.  Again, the FT example.  That kind of singular action by him is where he has the most trouble.

well publicly selling your player out and then not defending him as the media crushes him for months is not exactly creating a warm and fuzzy place to play.

Toxic? I guess words don't mean anything any more. He's a top tier professional basketball player. He performed very badly,and that included behavior which most observers interpreted as giving up. There are tens of thousands of other guys fighting for these spots. A coach and an elite player offered unusually candid but not particularly severe comments.

That may or may not have been wise strategically, but is wasn't a lie and it wasn't extreme, except for the expectation that any criticism remain in-house. We don't know how badly Simmons behaved behind the scenes. But you are calling this toxic.

It is impossible to make these jobs safe spaces for emotionally fragile people. Top tier sports is a Squid Game like tournament of mental toughness. The performance pressure and the intense public scrutiny are impossible to avoid. That's a big part of why someone can command north of $30M to play a game.

The Celtics would be gambling any chance at a title for the foreseeable future on the hope that Simmons will shed his persistent fragility and disingenuousness. Who wants to root for that? I don't

I'm not the one that called him a liar and a faker.  You are.  I was merely pointing out that quite often people have mental health issues because of their environment and when their environment changes the mental health issues go away.  It doesn't mean they were lying about those mental health issues.

So you are taking it in good faith that after demanding a trade, saying he didn’t want to play with Embid, saying he wanted to be the centerpiece of an offense, saying he preferred to play with one of the three California teams, said his back hurt, had rich paul confirm with the players association that the 76ers could withhold his money , THEN says he has mental health problems as 7th reason for not playing. You buying that? Really?

Celticsclay, nothing you are saying is wrong, it can all be true and the fact that Simmons is not 100% mentally fit can also be true.  I am not going as far as Moranis and attributing it to the "toxic" environment (although that doesn't mean the environment didn't have some contribution), I think Simmons really does have some issues.  His behavior has been erratic and irrational.  Isn't that a symptom of some underlying mental health issue in and of itself?

Im not saying he doesn’t have some mental health issues, but the mentally unable to play part that has twice conveniently been announced when fines and paychecks were being lost it makes it pretty clear he wants his money without playing. Rich paul was actually dumb enough to say the 76ers should treat simmons like John wall. Just give him his whole salary so he can sit home. The whole thing is making a mockery of mental health.